Fixed Cultural Borders???

VladDaImpaler · Mar 12, 2010

What is going on? I read that "Fixed Cultural Borders" was reworked, but it seems to be just completely useless now... ? I claim a plot, and move the unit and the plot becomes neutral again. So, I get a load of units to claim every plot in the area (so that there were was no way they should become neutral again (I had mostly claimed plots surrounded the spots) and then moved my troops off of the plots and boop, neutral again..
I liked the old way where i could simply claim a territory and continue going, although there was some slight bugs (you can control a single plot out of no where, without having to have other friendly plots near it, or you were unable to unclaim it [or the enemy\allies weren't able to gain it via surrounding spots]) but it still made the feature usable...

Am I misunderstanding the new "Fixed Cultural Borders" can you NOT claim neutral territory anymore?

Aline · Mar 12, 2010

I had the same problem, even though i think the old way was somewhat op i still like it more then the new version.

Arakhor · Mar 12, 2010

You need to be generating culture in the area or stationing troops in that area to claim the tile. Thus, you can't just say "that's mine" and expect it to happen, like you could with the previous system. It may be irritating sometimes, but it's tactically a much better system.

Afforess · Mar 12, 2010

VladDaImpaler said:
What is going on? I read that "Fixed Cultural Borders" was reworked, but it seems to be just completely useless now... ? I claim a plot, and move the unit and the plot becomes neutral again. So, I get a load of units to claim every plot in the area (so that there were was no way they should become neutral again (I had mostly claimed plots surrounded the spots) and then moved my troops off of the plots and boop, neutral again..
I liked the old way where i could simply claim a territory and continue going, although there was some slight bugs (you can control a single plot out of no where, without having to have other friendly plots near it, or you were unable to unclaim it [or the enemy\allies weren't able to gain it via surrounding spots]) but it still made the feature usable...

If you station at least one unit on the tile, you will keep it. Also, you can spread culture by building forts. They have the same cultural radius as early cities.

kabooki108 · Mar 12, 2010

I like it. It gives forts a whole new purpose, and eliminates a lot of the bugginess of the original. No more persistent culture around raised cities, random squares in someone else's territory forever, vassal tiles you can never get back, etc.

VladDaImpaler · Mar 12, 2010

Arakhor said:
YThus, you can't just say "that's mine" and expect it to happen, like you could with the previous system.

I don't know what planet YOU grew up in, but that's whats been done throughout mankind.. Even if people already inhabited the land... (although you may meet some resistance)

If you station at least one unit on the tile, you will keep it

That sounds painfully bad.. However, being able to put a fort down to keep cultural spots is nice.. does it only do a 3x3 (like a city with no culture?) does it do more like a + (4x2)x(4x2)? Does it upgrade?

Arakhor · Mar 12, 2010

Well, I grew up ON a planet, rather than IN one, but I didn't say it hasn't happened in history, just that you can't expect it to happen.

Afforess · Mar 12, 2010

VladDaImpaler said:
I don't know what planet YOU grew up in, but that's whats been done throughout mankind.. Even if people already inhabited the land... (although you may meet some resistance)

Yeah, sure; Europeans did that a lot. How much land do they control now? Most of their claims were in name only with no actual backing.

VladDaImpaler said:
That sounds painfully bad.. However, being able to put a fort down to keep cultural spots is nice.. does it only do a 3x3 (like a city with no culture?) does it do more like a + (4x2)x(4x2)? Does it upgrade?

3x3. But it never upgrades, and the culture it produces is really weak (1 per turn), so any city should be able to force it back easy. Good for claiming faraway land though.

VladDaImpaler · Mar 12, 2010

Nice, so I'm fiddling around with forts and such, and well... I like it

Makes forts worth building\putting units in (to back up the area, especially in choke points or near important resources)

Arakhor said:
Well, I grew up ON a planet, rather than IN one, but I didn't say it hasn't happened in history, just that you can't expect it to happen.

Pshh, surface dwellers...

Yeah, sure; Europeans did that a lot. How much land do they control now? Most of their claims were in name only with no actual backing.

Well, their borders stayed the same for the most part, just who controlled them changed hah..

All in all, now that I understand the changes, I like em so far! well done!

*~*The more you know*~*

Afforess · Mar 12, 2010

VladDaImpaler said:
All in all, now that I understand the changes, I like em so far! well done!

*~*The more you know*~*

Well, you know, I have a nice, long, civilopedia article that completely explains Fixed Borders, right?

VladDaImpaler · Mar 12, 2010

I have read all the civilopedia articles previously [Don't know why, but I love to read manuals. I feel like I'm one of the few that actually read the game manual whilst installing], I wasn't aware that the cultural borders "rework" was this much of a change (nor did I think to look at any changes at civilopedia)
Still playing on, and loving the changes. This game is far too addicting, and RoM+AnD does NOT help me get off after just.. one.. more.. turn... last one I swear! :lol:

shapecharge · Mar 14, 2010

I am new to the fixed borders concept having just downloaded a new dawn today.
I like the thought behind it and have read the civilopedia and understand it, just wish for 3 quick and related clarifications.
1.Since once a civ has a civic that allows him fixed borders at that time does having anthor city join you through culture become obsolete/impossible (at least with the civs with fixed borders).
2.Can barbarians ever have fixed borders or can you still always take them culturally.
3.Even if a civ has a fixed borders civic you can still spread your influence into his borders; thus increasing your influence percentage but just never claiming the land.

Great MOD MOD so far from what I have played.

Afforess · Mar 14, 2010

1.) No. Your culture can still spread normally. All players would have to have fixed borders for this to happen.

2.) Barbarians can never have fixed borders

3.) Exactly.

emidurand · Jan 6, 2013

shapecharge said:
3.Even if a civ has a fixed borders civic you can still spread your influence into his borders; thus increasing your influence percentage but just never claiming the land.

I've installed AND 2.0 beta and i've noticed that i can still lose my square if my neighborough has more influence on it. My only solution is to keep an unit on it. So, is the claiming option the only change of this version (about FB obviously)?
I loved last version of fixed borders mod and now i think it's useless.
Maybe we could resolve this thing increasing the production of culture of forts? Reducing time to increase culture level over 50% in the square.

Ps. A new idea, to resolve the situation, could be the introduction of improvements (just like forts) that can act like a colony. In this way we could build this improvement on resources not adjacent to our borders and keep them also without the help of a military unit. No defense bonus, only a better culture spread and the possibility to use the resource.

Is this practicable?

By the way, thank you for all this job...

45°38'N-13°47'E · Jan 6, 2013

emidurand said:
I've installed AND 2.0 beta and i've noticed that i can still lose my square if my neighborough has more influence on it. My only solution is to keep an unit on it. So, is the claiming option the only change of this version (about FB obviously)?
I loved last version of fixed borders mod and now i think it's useless.
Maybe we could resolve this thing increasing the production of culture of forts? Reducing time to increase culture level over 50% in the square.

Ps. A new idea, to resolve the situation, could be the introduction of improvements (just like forts) that can act like a colony. In this way we could build this improvement on resources not adjacent to our borders and keep them also without the help of a military unit. No defense bonus, only a better culture spread and the possibility to use the resource. Is this practicable?

By the way, thank you for all this job...

Well, rising a thread which is 2 years old isn't very polite in first place

(Sorry but I had to say it).
Second, AND2 beta2 is old now, I'll remove the link because the latest version can be found here now: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11537758&postcount=6;
I have to release a new version which doesn't need SVN but I have to solve a couple of bugs first (as for your suggestion, we'll have to think about it in the future because now the main thing is to solve some bugs)
As for FB, they're optional in the latest version; not every civic allows FB, look at the civic you're using (and the civic your neighbours are using).
I'm happy you enjoy the game, Zappara and Afforess did a great work indeed, we're only trying to improve it a bit more.

emidurand · Jan 7, 2013

I'm really sorry for rising this old thread...really...I did'nt mean to be unkind or creating problems.

I've searched for a thread about FB many times because I love this minimod as I love Rise of Mankind but I've found only this or few others thread. But I've never found a solution. Maybe I've not searched enough. :/

By the way, where can I post this? I've made some modification, changing the civics. All civics now supports fixed borders except chiefdom. No one has this civic, so I think could be another explanation. I think it could be a rule from the gamecore. But I don't know how it works...

Sorry again. I'll find other threads...

Good work!!

45°38'N-13°47'E · Jan 7, 2013

emidurand said:
I'm really sorry for rising this old thread...really...I did'nt mean to be unkind or creating problems.
I've searched for a thread about FB many times because I love this minimod as I love Rise of Mankind but I've found only this or few others thread. But I've never found a solution. Maybe I've not searched enough. :/

By the way, where can I post this? I've made some modification, changing the civics. All civics now supports fixed borders except chiefdom. No one has this civic, so I think could be another explanation. I think it could be a rule from the gamecore. But I don't know how it works...

Sorry again. I'll find other threads...
Good work!!

Don't worry, that's ok

But I suggest you try the SVN version because changes were made since AND2 beta2; I don't know if something has changed about your specifc problem because not all changes were made by myself. But I suspect that this is how FB works now as explained by Afforess in previous old posts (and since he's AND creator, he knows, although he could have changed something from 2010).

Reisk@ · May 7, 2013

So is it impossible to claim cities through cultural expansion now even if my "influence" spreads around them ? With and/or without fixed borders ?

urtho · May 7, 2013

Reisk@ said:
So is it impossible to claim cities through cultural expansion now even if my "influence" spreads around them ? With and/or without fixed borders ?

In my experience, the answer to your question is yes. Others will no doubt chime in as they have in the past in other threads where I've brought up this point to say that it is possible and they've seen it happen in their games but in all my time and games with this mod I've never seen this happen even once.

You will certainly never be able to claim the base 8 surrounding tiles of an enemy city via culture even if it is completely surrounded and overwhelmed by your culture as it was confirmed that this has been hardcoded into the mod on a very deep level that would be difficult to change. Very sad, to say the least, but that's the way it was done when the mod was made. Perhaps it can be changed at some point in the future.

Reisk@ · May 8, 2013

Thanks for the info.

So naturally assuming that all these people are not lying, it is possible but only a rare and randomish event. Have to experiment and see but i really think that overwhelming cultural power should flip cities like in version 1.75.

Wonder if this possible rare flipping could be helped with agents ?

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