Brave New Realpolitik

The NPCs will begin to hate you because they believe you are tyrannical.

dot80 said:

The NPCs will beginning hate you because they believe you are tyrannical.

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What if we aren't tyrannical and run the country well?

It means we invested a lot of money in propaganda.

Teekaj2 said:

What if we aren't tyrannical and run the country well?

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Its more meant to prevent one party from winning every session. You really can't be tyrannical because you can't fix the elections or do anything outside of the powers delegated to you. As Secret said: propaganda, propaganda, propaganda.

Putting the update together now.

400 hundred years have passed since the first elections of Brazil. Much has changed in the nation. Our warriors have traveled the dark jungles along the river, and revealed to us many things. Those before us have left amazing ruins that, once explored, hold the secrets to civilization. From the first of these ruined cities, our warriors found an ancient and advanced weaponry. Made of bronze fixed to the end of a long pole, these spears give our men an edge over the barbarians of the wilderness. The second held a trove of ancient artwork. When these artifacts were brought back to Rio De Janeiro they ignited a fire of inspiration among the people that we have never before seen. All sorts of artwork and music was created surrounding these artifacts. With the innovation of art, came an innovation of thinking. The people, lead by Shaman Secret Scribe, rediscovered the tradition of our civilization. It was a hark back to our roots, that reminded us all of who we were and where we came from. With an eye to the past, we moved forward, searching ever onward into the wilderness. The river as our guide, we found the first major spark of civilization besides our own. A city of men, M’banza Kongo, was lead by no immortal like ours. Reflecting this pivotal difference, they lacked the drive to explore, to expand. Militaristic in nature, and irrational in their personality they may one day prove as dear allies or mortal enemies. Progress, however, is not only measured in how far your warriors go; back in Rio we made a discovery of our own: pottery. Working the clay into pots and bowls, sculptures and jars, it was a revolution in the way we lived and ate. Now the time for meeting has come again. With the experience of an additional 400 years, we must now look to the future and decide our path.

News

• Three more immortals have joined our ranks! Welcome to cpm4001, Horseshoe Hermi, and GreekAnalyzer!
• Another NPC has been born in Rio de Janeiro! Welcome to Simão Crespo!
• Two new parties have formed! The Social Democratic League of Brasilia was founded by Tycho! It has four members: Teekaj, Secret Scribe, juKar-C, and cpm4001. The National Technocratic Party of Brazil was founded by Terran Emperor! It has one member: Christos200.

Issues

• What shall we build in Rio de Janeiro?
• Should the Spearmen continue exploring south west?
• Should we research Calender as planned?
• What should we do about M'banza Kongo?
• What should our next social policy be?

Turn Report


NPC List

OOC: I can't resist . If anyone wants to join me in a political party, indicate your desire to do so and the Traditionalist Autocratic Party of Brazil (outlined below along with my characters speech)

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Traditionalist Autocratic Party of Brazil (TAPB)
Founder: Jehoshua
Current Members: Jehoshua, Filli_Noctus
Platform: The Traditional Autocrats believe in the fundamental importance of two things maintaining Brazils culture and traditions, and the inferiority of republican democracy to strong, benevolent and autocratic authority, preferably expressed in a semi-constitutional parliamentary monarchy. (support tradition/honour/piety in social policy, favour culture and military to spread Brazilian Civilisation to the savages.)

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Speech: Brothers and Sisters, is it not clear that our traditions are glorious, and our culture sublime? Is it not clear that the Brazilian nation is vastly superior to the savages around us? Yet our traditions and culture are threatened by bickering between politicians who's sole concern is their petty competition for the vote. The savages with their degenerate ways threaten our morals, our very civilisation, and yet the political class cares not for either propagating Brazilianness, the great duty of our august race, our elected leaders care not likewise for defending it.

I propose a revolutionary and progressive way out of this rut, and indeed what I propose is the only reasonable, rational way in which Brazil can advance and prosper. Autocratic monarchy my friends is necessary for our survival and for the common good. We must discard the outdated and reactionary model of elective chieftainship and ensure that our leader stands as a truly universal representative of the Brazilian people, capable of personifying our culture and traditions and linking the present to the past through the establishment of a monarchy. This is truly the most equal of all systems, for in such a system not the most sly, nor the most eloquent, nor the best or the worst or by any category whatsoever is the leader chosen. But rather the leader comes to be purely by divine providence and circumstance, and by the acclamation of the people generally. Through such a method our leader would not be bound to any party or any political ideology and could unify the nation against the foreign hordes as a truly universal sovereign capable of being looked up too by our people no matter their political persuasion.

In how many turns is the social policy?

three, according to the city overview screen.

Speech in response to the establishment of the TAPB

Hear, hear. It is good to hear sense being spoken in these matters. For is it not said "a land with many leaders cannot prosper for many leaders are as no leader". Only through unified strength, unified vision and unified purpose can greatness be achieved. Unified coming from the ancient word uni- meaning one. One leader, one Brazil, one destiny - ours. I therefore announce my joining the TAPB.

OOC: dot, please ignore my previous PM.

Traditionalist Autocratic Party of Brazil (TAPB)
Founder: Jehoshua
Current Members: Jehoshua
Platform: The Traditional Autocrats believe in the fundamental importance of two things maintaining Brazils culture and traditions, and the inferiority of republican democracy to strong, benevolent and autocratic authority, preferably expressed in a semi-constitutional parliamentary monarchy. (support tradition/honour/piety in social policy, favour culture and military to spread Brazilian Civilisation to the savages.)

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Why hello there, potential ideological ally.

Why Hello indeed, although naturally ideological and political allegiance is predicated upon the Imperialist Party committing to the establishment of a Brazilian Emperor upon the lines outlined below. Although seeing as you are the Imperialist Party, we do not suppose that such undying support would be problematic.

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IMPERIAL REFORM ACT (Platform for Reform upheld by the TAPB)

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Emperor: (Veto, Dissolve Government, Approve Decree, Choose State Religion), The Emperor is the leader of the nation. Being immortal he shall remain in power eternally until either accident or untimely death necessitates the ascendance of a new Immortal Emperor. Succession is determined by a secret list of three successors in order of primacy established by the Emperor of the day.

It is the Emperors job to protect the traditions of the nation, and ward against abuse of political power as a check and balance on elected political leaders. The Emperor as such has the veto, and must approve all decrees put in place by the prime minister. The Emperor has the power to dissolve government necessitating new elections in the event he sees undue corruption, or other need. The Emperor also has the right to determine the states official religion (or lack thereof). Upon accession to the throne forfeits membership in any political party, to be resumed after temporary incapacitation via accident or untimely death and the accession of a successor.

Prime Minister: (Sets Agenda, Removal of Lower Offices, Diplomat, Decrees, Spies, Technology) It is his job to set the course the country will go in over the next few sessions, and he maintains administrative rights over the other ministers to help enforce his agenda. A Decree is an order that overrides an order made by a minister or governor, and it requires support from 2/3 of the total governors and ministers. Finally the Prime Minister acts as head diplomat, making decisions in all cases of foreign affairs.

Is elected by popular vote.

General (War Chief) (Combat Units) The General directly controls the army/navy/air force to protect the nation from foreign threats. He maintains control over all non-civilian units. Appointed by Prime Minister

Steward (Bartermaster) (Workers, Gold Purchases, Caravans) The Steward is in control of all domestic affairs. He directly controls all workers (excluding archaeologists) and their orders. He controls Great Engineers, Great Scientists, and Great Merchants. With approval of the Prime minister, he makes gold purchases. Finally, he has power over where caravans/cargo ships are stationed and who they trade with. Appointed by Prime Minister

Priest (Shaman) (Social Policies, Great Works, Faith Purchases) The Priest is in charge of all culture and faith. He chooses the Social Policy. He makes faith purchases, and controls any unit purchased with faith. He controls Great Artists, Great Writers, Great Musicians, and Great Prophets, and Archeologists. Finally, he chooses Religious beliefs (not the actual religion). Appointed by Prime Minister

Governor(s) (Chief) (Build Orders, Citizen Management) The Governors control build orders and citizen management in cities. Is elected by popular vote in governorate.

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I would also like to express my heartfelt praise for the right reason and intelligence of the prominent immortal sir, Filli Noctus, and express my firm resolve that the TABP with said sir on the party board will be utterly committed and dedicated to the implementation of gradual imperial reform (the first step outlined above), for the good of the Brazilian people, and in the interests of fulfilling the manifest destiny of our latent Empire to civilise the barbarous savagery of the world through the influence of Brazilian culture and military might.

The strength of our country revolves around the ability of the people to rally behind a figure morally and politically above the petty bickering of normal state politics. The reformation of the government into an Empire would give that towering figure to which pay our respects to and obey.

Officially, such a measure would be approved by the Brazilian Imperialist Party.

Who wants to form a reactionary state socialist party with me, in response to all this autocracy and constitutional imperialism? I have a platform all drawn up, plus legal changes.
It will justify changes to the build order and tech path, and get us going culturally.

Brazilian Imperialists, I have put up a social group.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/group.php?groupid=996

filli_noctus said:

Speech in response to the establishment of the TAPB

Hear, hear. It is good to hear sense being spoken in these matters. For is it not said "a land with many leaders cannot prosper for many leaders are as no leader". Only through unified strength, unified vision and unified purpose can greatness be achieved. Unified coming from the ancient word uni- meaning one. One leader, one Brazil, one destiny - ours. I therefore announce my joining the TAPB.

OOC: dot, please ignore my previous PM.

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Glad you've decided to stay

Jehoshua said:

Why Hello indeed, although naturally ideological and political allegiance is predicated upon the Imperialist Party committing to the establishment of a Brazilian Emperor upon the lines outlined below. Although seeing as you are the Imperialist Party, we do not suppose that such undying support would be problematic.

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Normally the establishment of an Emperor would seem to thwart the idea of democracy. Though, I only see such a proposal as generating controversy and more interest in the game. The only thing I require is that you amend the Emperor's section so that his 'Dissolve Government' power must be backed by a majority of out-of-office voters (NPCs and Players). If he is only elected once, there must be some check on a power that could so easily be abused.

dot80 said:

Normally the establishment of an Emperor would seem to thwart the idea of democracy. Though, I only see such a proposal as generating controversy and more interest in the game. The only thing I require is that you amend the Emperor's section so that his 'Dissolve Government' power must be backed by a majority of out-of-office voters (NPCs and Players). If he is only elected once, there must be some check on a power that could so easily be abused.

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Democracy is Absolute as you say, thus who are you to deny the will of the people if they vote for the parties that have clearly proposed the establishment of Empire in their policy outlines? Likewise the absolute nature of democracy means the TABP has a democratic and inviolate right to uphold autocracy, and legislate against democratic republicanism and its ideals if it is voted into power! Thus according to the rules the TABP's policies are perfectly legitimate, and are absolutely lawful since democracy, being absolute, allows for the implementation of undemocratic forms of government and policy if a party holding such policies is elected into office and has the peoples democratic mandate.

However as to the "dissolve government" power in the Emperor section, I contest that it is not anti-democratic (in any sense of the word), and does not require amendment since the dissolution is immediately followed by new elections under the proposal (for prime minister or Governor, depending on the government being dissolved) which of course are entirely independent affairs. The whole point of the Emperor having the power as described furthermore is to provide a check and balance in the event a government goes to hell and starts ruining the nation. Requiring consensus for the Emperor to dissolve parliament would do defeat the purpose. This combined with the obvious fact that the rules ensure the TABP has an absolute right to freely implement any policies it wants if it is elected (as I said) make me reluctant to change, seeing as there is no rule-based imperative for me to do so and its not anti-democratic to begin with (the Governer General can dissolve parliament in Australia along similar lines, are you calling Australia undemocratic?).

People of Brazil, Listen to these "immortals" from the TAPB, they have everything to gain, and nothing to lose if they set up an Autocratic Monarchy. Even Immortals are corruptible, while Traditon is great, we must look for the future! Thus I say to you, that the only way Brazil will become a great and powerful nation is through rationalism, and Liberty. We must together fight for our rights to be free and choose our leaders. Stand up, Stand up against the yoke of oppression and tell these "immortals" that you WILL NOT be treated like common cattle, shifted around and forced to do their bidding. We must let Science and Reason lead our lives, not petty immortals with petty goals.

due to christos' departure from the Technocratic party I hereby would like to request to join/merge The National Technocratic Party with the Social Democratic League of Brasilia, while my Technocratic Ideologies are its own, my other ideologies of freedom and liberty follow theirs.

The TABP welcomes Christos to its ever-expanding fold.

Observing the public statements of the immortal TerranEmperor (for he is an immortal no matter how much he pretends not to be when making his absurd utterances) its not hard to understand why you have chosen to join the TABP family. Firstly TerranEmperor speaks fallacy when he insinuates that the past is anathema to "looking to the future", on the contrary it is integral to it. The future can only be boldly entered into with knowledge, and in a hermeneutic of continuity with the nations traditions and culture. The alternative is chaos, anarchy, radical revisionism that ignoring history is preordained to disaster. The TABP being set on genuine progress in contrast to the reactionary republicans of the current establishment understands that the lessons and wisdom of the past must be respected if the future is to be a golden one.

The second absurdity of Mr TerranEmperor is his mere hypocrisy. His party, or rather former party considering his statements were so absurd that its membership has now fallen below the number required for party recognition, advocated government by the intelligent, by the experts. Mr TerranEmperor argued, quite rightly, that aristocracy, rule by the best in society, the most wise and intelligent is necessary for the best running of the nation. Who however could be more intelligent and wise than the immortals? Immortals have time unending in contemplation, in reflection, centuries and millennia to learn the lessons of the past, reflect upon mistakes gone by, centuries to research and delve into the mysteries of creation long after the great luminaries amongst the mortals, and undoubtedly mortal men are blessed with wisdom, have travelled into the next world, their wisdom lost to the living. The Technocrats own policies vindicate the TABP's firm advocacy for strong rule under the wise and moral guidance of an immortal Emperor, they vindicate autocracy under the benevolent hand of those whose wisdom is timeless and imperishable. TerranEmperor in his utterances makes himself a hypocrite and a liar, rejecting the policies he previously established for his party purely in the hope of gaining cheap political merit. This is just another petty example of just the type of crass politicking that has convinced the members of the TABP of the need for an Emperor for Brazil, a man who can stand beyond the fray of political debate and truly guide this country into the future for the good of ALL its citizens, instead of for political gain.

However as I noted, and as TerranEmperor has already recognised, the technocrats days of politicking are over. Hypocrisy be it unintentional or not has its own reward as events shows. However the TABP truly desires only the best for Brazil, and steadfastly believes in not only the rightness of its cause, but also its reasonableness and self-evident necessity. If Mr Terran Emperor (his name perhaps being providential) is listening to me and has seen the reason and light of the TABP's positive and progressive vision for the future. I personally invite him to rescind his imprudent initiative to join the ossified regime of the Social Democrats, and instead join the Traditionalist Autocratic Party of Brazil alongside Mr Christos so that he can together with us, Mr Filli Noctus and the Imperialist Party bring about positive change, in continuity with Brazils traditions, for Brazils people, so that our great nation can continue to prosper into the future and embark under the banner of Empire in our sacred duty to bring the light of civilisation to the savages. No member of the TABP bears Terran Emperor any ill will, we can understand that he may not have understood our vision before and we hope that in time, be it now or in a few hundred years, he will learn from the mistakes he has made and engage in our constructive plans for the future. For indeed our fundamental vision of rule by the wise and capable is near identical, save only Mr Terran Emperors sole focus on the technological aspect of intelligence, wisdom and good governance.