Strategic Party Affiliation

Genuinely curious, What else aside from being able to participate in primaries is being registered as one party or another enables and/or forces you to do? what happens if you're registered as a Republican (say) and participate in the primaries but consistently vote Democrat in the general?

If there are no downsides then I feel like it's no brainer you'd register and vote as whichever party's primaries you'd like to participate in strategically as opposed for who you'd really vote for.

That's basically it. You can vote for whoever you want in the general election regardless of which party you're registered for. I did read you cannot change party affiliation between April 1 and August 31 of even-numbered years (when the primaries are for House and Senate elections). That last part probably varies by state.
 
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As long as it is for the candidate they prefer, I don't see why it should be manipulation.
Because they are clearly not the target population.
I mean, it's a nonsense system, that's their fault.
I can't say you're alone, but I would entirely blame the registration process itself for people taking advantage of it.
I was specifically speaking about ethics. Having a system easily abusable doesn't change the fact that it's deliberate manipulation.
 
I'll go against the flow and I'd say it's ethically wrong. That's deliberate manipulation that perverts the concept it plays unto.
I find enlightening to notice just how many people seem to finds it acceptable. Oh well.
When the government itself has no ethics, the voters need to figure out how the system works to choose the least worst option.

Rachel Notley (provincial NDP leader here) just stepped down as party leader. Nobody knows who her successor will be. I hope it's someone I could support in good conscience. There are so few non-right-wing choices here these days.
 
I was specifically speaking about ethics. Having a system easily abusable doesn't change the fact that it's deliberate manipulation.
It i certainly manipulation, in that it is taking an action with the hope of a specific outcome, but I do not see how it is any more immoral than voting for the person who is more likely to beat the tories rather than who you would really like to win in a FPTP system
 
Breaking nonsense electoral systems is probably a good thing to do just on principle, so that they get changed. The antidemocratic farce of senate Group Voting Tickets in Australia didn't get changed til Glenn Drury completely gamed it, for instance.
 
Breaking nonsense electoral systems is probably a good thing to do just on principle, so that they get changed. The antidemocratic farce of senate Group Voting Tickets in Australia didn't get changed til Glenn Drury completely gamed it, for instance.
Gerrymandering has been breaking a nonsense electoral system for a couple hundred years and hasn’t changed much.
 
There's an argument that consistent gerrymandering over time drives more extreme views in the packed, or minority, districts. That'd be weird if a lot of those people so umbrella'd were relatively disparate, politically, compared to a more politically monolithic majority. One that was dominant enough to draw earmuff districts explicitly stated to elect a man of the proper skin color. Seems like a situation with no repercussions whatsoever where it's done... :lol:
 
Breaking nonsense electoral systems is probably a good thing to do just on principle, so that they get changed. The antidemocratic farce of senate Group Voting Tickets in Australia didn't get changed til Glenn Drury completely gamed it, for instance.

I briefly looked up what that was on Wikipedia, and it seems like a very weird system.
 
Gerrymandering has been breaking a nonsense electoral system for a couple hundred years and hasn’t changed much.
Guess it falls on me to report that's the system operating as intended. You don't run a system of first part the post single member districts because you're trying to be representative.
 
That’s exactly why it was created that way, to be representative. We have more examples and theory, now. Pushing legal loopholes hasn’t forced something new to replace it, so it’s just been made uglier in many cases.

But to your point where we recognize this and value democracy, we have reformed things. California districts are drawn reasonably, for example, and in places where antidemocratic sentiment is strong, they have prevented reform.
 
I'll go against the flow and I'd say it's ethically wrong. That's deliberate manipulation that perverts the concept it plays unto.
I find enlightening to notice just how many people seem to finds it acceptable. Oh well.
I agree with this. Too many people on this thread and on the internet in general are willing to ignore ethics the moment they become an impediment to their personal goals or preferences. And I too find that distasteful.

This being said, that sort of thinking seems to be a thing with americans in general when it comes to rules. They are always not just willing but outright eager to try and find loopholes to slip through in order to get their way even if it violates the very purpose that the law was intended for. And from what little I've seen on the subject (mostly gun stuff since I like Forgotten Weapons) that just seems to turn the entire legal system into a game of cat and mouse between the government an "inventive" citizens trying to cheat. And than they go the extra mile and complain when the government actually tries to stop them.

And I am saying this frankly not just out of condemnation but confusion. As in I just don't get it. It's such a strange and alien mentality to what I know.
 
I agree with this. Too many people on this thread and on the internet in general are willing to ignore ethics the moment they become an impediment to their personal goals or preferences. And I too find that distasteful.
It is not about ignoring ethics, it is about not understanding the ethical problem. What is the calculation that results in "this action is unethical"?

[EDIT] I really do not know, and I am not sure of where those who are against it are from, but I wonder if it is people not being aware of the usual calculations you have to do under a FPTP system.
 
I agree with this. Too many people on this thread and on the internet in general are willing to ignore ethics the moment they become an impediment to their personal goals or preferences. And I too find that distasteful.

This being said, that sort of thinking seems to be a thing with americans in general when it comes to rules. They are always not just willing but outright eager to try and find loopholes to slip through in order to get their way even if it violates the very purpose that the law was intended for. And from what little I've seen on the subject (mostly gun stuff since I like Forgotten Weapons) that just seems to turn the entire legal system into a game of cat and mouse between the government an "inventive" citizens trying to cheat. And than they go the extra mile and complain when the government actually tries to stop them.

And I am saying this frankly not just out of condemnation but confusion. As in I just don't get it. It's such a strange and alien mentality to what I know.

I think Americans tend to have a view that if the system is unjust, it is okay to find loopholes.

For example, the current primary system often encourages more extreme candidates to be represented by their party, which may not be in the best interests of a country.
 
It is not about ignoring ethics, it is about not understanding the ethical problem. What is the calculation that results in "this action is unethical"?
Subverting a system by using a technically legal action that goes against the spirit of the system as designed just so that you can get your way is pretty unethical. It's like one of the textbook examples of unethical behavior.

I think Americans tend to have a view that if the system is unjust, it is okay to find loopholes.

For example, the current primary system often encourages more extreme candidates to be represented by their party, which may not be in the best interests of a country.
It's very easy to say what you do and consider your self to be in the right. But ultimately it's just another way of saying that the ends justify the means. And that it's ok to ignore rules and laws simply because you feel like it just as long as you can find some technicality to use as a cheat code.

And not only is that wildly unethical by any system of morality that does not devolve to naked individualistic self interest but it's also harmful to society as a whole. Remember, we may all be unique but none of us is special. None of us is, or at least should be, more equal than others. So if you can do that than everyone can. And if everyone picks just one loophole to use than your entire legal system becomes a game of whackamole.

And before you know it you have a legal system that is grossly ineffective and byzantine in its complexity to the point nobody can make heads or tails of it all because of the constant game of cat and mouse between the people who like the rules and those that don't like the same.

To be frank, I honestly find this approach to be both selfish and more unethical than the honest criminal who just openly breaks the laws that displease him. He at least does not try to hide behind "well technically".

The only situation where I would consider such an approach to rules even remotely ethical is in a society that is so far gone that revolution is in order.
 
Subverting a system by using a technically legal action that goes against the spirit of the system as designed just so that you can get your way is pretty unethical. It's like one of the textbook examples of unethical behavior.
I still do not get it. Can you reference something that could be described as "textbook"? Can you explain the axioms on which that statement is based? Can you explain how the world is worse off if you do this? What "rules and laws" are being ignored?
 
This is seemingly pretty much what the primary system is designed for (and yeah, this should be fairly US-specific, in most other systems candidate pre-selection is a private affair limited to party organisations and their dues-paying members, not just anyone who ticks a box on enrollment)
Seemingly, indeed; in reality, through a great deal of smoke and mirrors, the primary system is adequately designed to allow a small group of party insiders to reproduce the terms of their own reappointment & to appoint successors all on their own terms. I guess the DNC superdelegates have come up before. The GOP system meanwhile is in the claws of giant landowning interests. It's really remarkable honestly how we've institutionalized the primary system to such an extent that both parties have unlimited and effective permission to count the votes however they like.
 
You need to get most of the work done at a level people don't think to get angry about. They don't even bother to show up for this step that decides the picture, they just don't care.
 
Seemingly, indeed; in reality, through a great deal of smoke and mirrors, the primary system is adequately designed to allow a small group of party insiders to reproduce the terms of their own reappointment & to appoint successors all on their own terms. I guess the DNC superdelegates have come up before. The GOP system meanwhile is in the claws of giant landowning interests. It's really remarkable honestly how we've institutionalized the primary system to such an extent that both parties have unlimited and effective permission to count the votes however they like.
It's also massively more open, less controlled by parties, and more bound up in state law, than basically any other country's candidate pre-selection process that I'm aware of.

For a comparison, in this country, the process of parties choosing a candidate is entirely in the hands of party members - people who actually pay to be members - or sometimes even just elected party officials. Labor for instance have about 40,000 members which is an average of about 260 members per electoral district. Pre-selection of candidates is voted by those members. For the Liberal Party too, many candidates are chosen by votes numbering in the dozens.

Even then, quite often the choice is constrained by specific union arrangements and by deals between formalised Labor factions or by less formal factional tendencies in the Liberals. Member votes have regularly been overturned and head office candidates imposed, to meet factional balance objectives, get a high profile person into a winnable seat, achieve alternative action goals, remove unwanted candidates, etc.

In the Greens, I'm one of about 10000 paying members nationwide, so we have no more than a few hundred members in Canberra voting on all our candidate choices (everyone votes on all seats, not just the area we live in). Head office doesn't interfere in our case (there isn't really such a thing in the same way as the old parties) but there's a vetting committee to screen for candidate quality and alignment and a vetting committee report they send out with the ballots.

In all cases it's still entirely a matter for the voting members mediated by internal rules, a private affair for private party organisations, a small sliver of the general population. Certainly nothing like the effectively public votes the US parties undertake.

Worth nothing in many cases the US primary system is a tool of maintaining ballot access restrictions - the two dominant parties subject themselves to theoretically open primary rules via state law, which must be met to get on the actual election ballots, and then other parties failing to meet those rules can't be on the ballot. The "jungle primary" systems look like an example of this, usually pretty effectively restricting general election ballots to just the major parties.
 
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Vetting committee.

They'd do it there, here. Or a similar.
 
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