Classic GOTM 32 Spoiler 1: End of ancient age

I just want to go through some highlights and strategic decisions. One thing Ainwood missed in his opening paragraph was that the map made it important to rush Jaguar warriors to the many chokes, limiting the computer in its expansion.

I founded my capitol one square southeast of the start and things went downhill from there. Not that my empire actually had any real problems. But I was playing pretty sloppy. I actually managed to lose my starting worker to a barbarian (dangit). Luckily, I'd finished 4 improved squares near my capitol. Throughout the Ancient Age I was too cocky (and thus careless) due to the monarch setting.

I founded two cities to the west and quickly blocked off the Iroquois in their little northern area. The cities could have been closer to my capitol, and I was thinking too much looking for 'ideal' sites for early cities. See, this game was wildly different from my normal Civ3 games. One of the reason I liked the GOTM idea. I usually play on a very crowded map, generally max water continents with 8 civs. But in addition, I favor a cold, arid, and young (mountainous) world.

For awhile I just built settlers and workers. Unfortunately, I got The Wheel late. Partially because I'd been working on bronze working, got that tech through a hut, and didn't notice when the sci advisor started me on Iron Working too early. 36 turns later...

But in any case, i isolated the weird penninsula south west of the starting land from the Americans, and blocked off the southwest land area with two more Jaguar warriors (they'd gotten a setter past the one-square isthmus befure I started thinking). In retrospect, I might have also been able to block off land far to the south east from them as well.

In any case, I expanded to the east, both south and north. North just enough to the luxuries there, but I missed the horses (wheel was too late). They were right on my border with the Iroquois. Damn their UU. I find it's right up there with the persians' UU for Ancient Age annoyance. South enough that I had 4 good cities along the side, until I hit desert. The Americans did steal one spot along the inner sea, south of my capitol on the land road to that inner sea penninsula. But I colonized the penninsula (thanks blockade), to the west and north were two cities above the isthmus, and three cities were built on the southwest landmass, first on the iron there.

That iron took forever to get connected to my empire. In part because of barbarian activity. They just kept popping up there. I had three J. warriors and an archer hunting down huts (archers for mountain fastnesses), but the barbs still got one horde off. In a rare decision, I decided to defend instead of buy something overpriced from the computer with my ~200 gold. My city barely held, with my scrambled defenses of 4 spearmen and 1 J warrior all redlining and becoming elite.

Well, that was nice. But the Americans had founded a city that pushed my 2 warriors holding their entrance to the SW land area back, and the Iroquois had used triremes to found two cities there. I wasn't happy with that, so I built up a mixed force of J. Warriors, Swordsmen, and Horseman. A little rag tag, but they were what I had available. And four horseman, seven swordsmen, and a few J. Warrors to attack mounted warriors is a nice force.

For the war with the Iroquois (I had initially planned on the Americans, as they didn't have Mounted Warriors, but they turned out to be bigger because the Iroquois were bottled, and I wanted to deny Iroquois horses) I sent two Elite spearmen to hold the western front, two elite J. Warriors and an eilte archer to attack the Iroquois in the southwest, and the bulk of my army to the northeastern front (including two more elite spearmen).

I crashed across the border with excellent inital success, taking the Iroquois city with horses. I then planned to fortify and move on, hopefully not losing any units to the Iroquois mounted warriors. They may have also had a golden age due to Oracle, but I didn't want to count on that. Most other wonders had been built overseas.

Two turns after I took the horses city, Hiawatha broke his army on my fortified spearmen. No less than three Mounted warriors impaled themselves on just one elite spearmen (the other destroyed two swordsmen). My best spearmen were renamed the Living Wall Brigade, and I created an army of 3 regular swordsmen (upgrades...).

Everything was going swimmingly, including the destruction of a city in the southwest, until one dreadful attack a few turns into the war. Hiawatha was running out of units in the north east, had ignored the west, and one town stood in the southwest with a single regular spearmen. That spearmen defeated an elite archer and two elite J. warriors. Only one warrior retreated, and the spearmen were now elite themselves. In the north, my army (7 hp) and the Living Wall brigade both fell on the same turn to 2 regular swordsmen (one each). My counter attack largely failed, including the loss of an attacking vet. horseman to a defending regular Mounted Warrior. Hiawatha's last Mounted Warrior, no less.

The rest of the war consisted of me scrambling units to the northeast to counter the golden-age stream of Iroquois swordmen flooding the area, while trying to destroy that darned city in the southwest. After another failed attack, 3 J. Warriors finally took Tydenaga in the southwest, eliminated the Iroquois from the area. I'd only planned for a short war (rather than a civ-killing one) in any case, though I hadn't meant to make such limited gains. Luck had kept my golden age until near the end, triggered in the south by a J. Warrior.

I got republic in peace (& ended ancient age), changed governments, started Heroic Epic, and planned on spending my golden age rapidly improving my cities to take the infrastructure lead. I was first in population, land area, and production, but not GNP.
 
Praetor, since you eventually had such a fierce war with IRA, don't you think it isn't necessary to spend so much effort to block them from reaching those strategic points? and this may also apply to america.
 
One thing Ainwood missed in his opening paragraph was that the map made it important to rush Jaguar warriors to the many chokes, limiting the computer in its expansion.
Why block the choke points? I didn't have much trouble with the AI trespassing, and I'm not sure putting JWs in the way would help.
 
AlanH said:
Why block the choke points? I didn't have much trouble with the AI trespassing, and I'm not sure putting JWs in the way would help.

AlanH,

I also blocked all of the choke points. It only seemed logical to me at the time. But I think it really did help me in that I got to control the barbarians in the jungles. I made tons of money from them. Also, I generally just hate settler/spearman combos marching through my territory. It's just rude!

And BTW, the jags did just fine blocking. The Monarch AI is pretty poor at expansion, not to mention that the tech pace really crawled.
 
Well, in general I had the Jags from scouting. I didn't block the chokes so early as to limit contact between IRQ and AMR :(. And I think if I'd been really aggressive at it, I could have reduced AMR's size by the end of the AA by 4 cities or so. Sloppy play...

The benefit may have been small, but the cost wasn't great either. Many of the Jag warriors used for blocking were built when I was timing settlers to come out of my capitol the turn (or one turn after) the capitol grew. The early warriors also helped keep barbs in check early. And I never paid extra gold for my army (until republic, I choked at the army cost and switched to monarchy post haste).

Plus the fierceness of the war was due to that damned horseman. If that horse had been successful, I would have redoubled my military production in my GA and probably overrun the Iroquois. I will note that I had both wildly successful attacks and wildly unsuccessful ones. The random number generator was working overtime.

Despite the wordiness of my post, ultimately my answer is that I didn't actually spend much effort! At the very least it got me two cities on that inner sea penninsula.
 
Open [ptw] 1.27f

My starting goal in this GOTM was to win by conquest or domination. Fighting my game-play habits would be the greatest obstacle.

Visual Imagery ;)
djb_aztec1.jpg


I settled one tile south, after moving my worker SE and noticing the luxury. Like others, I was surprised by the map configuration, thinking we were on an island at first.

Contact made w/ America in 2710 BC and learned they had a 3 tech advantage (goodyhuts no doubt). In 1830 BC, contact is made w/ the Iroquois.

Ancient Age techs:
*Alphabet to America for Bronze Working & 32 gold (2630 BC)
*Alphabet & 35 gold to Iroquois for Pottery & Wheel (1990 BC)
*Wheel & 19 gold to America for Masonry (1990 BC)
*Writing & Iroquois contact to America for Iron Working, Mysticism, & 47 gold (1350 BC)
*Map Making (1075 BC)
*Philosophy (875 BC)
*Map Making to Iroquois for Horseback Riding
*Code of Laws (630 BC) & trade to Iroquois for Mathematics, tm, & 33 gold.
*Republic to Iroquois for Construction, wm, & 82 gold and popped GH for Literature (110 BC)
*Polytheism (30 AD)
*Polytheism & dyes to Iroquois for Currency (280 AD) Enter Middle Ages

Overall, I was pleased w/ my performance in the Ancient Age. Trading techs and capturing barb camps allowed me to keep sliders at 1-9-0. Changed governments directly from despotism to republic in 90 AD. No wars. But, wars would begin early in the next age.

Mini Map
djb_gotm32_mini_map_320ad.JPG


Was anybody else, who played COTM 01, taken by surprise w/ the ability to trade communications and maps early? I don't know why it did me, since I play under these rules 95% of the time.
 
Drazek said:
I noticed in Xevious' post that he placed a town 2 tiles from IRQ. AI tends to attack if your town is nearer than 3 tiles. I lost Medal Play game 5-4 due to that early Deity AI attack and during that game AI reasoning was noticed by someone (you can check the thread if you want). That's good to know and not much known.

I agree with what you're saying, as I've seen it before, but since we are militaristic, and I had a better army I wasn't worried. I was planning to (and did actually) culture grab their spices from them. Never did get them to flip to me though.
 
Predator

My entry for earliest golden age is 1750 BC. Which was pretty dumb considering I only had 3 cities. But the Iroquios settler/warrior combo was too tempting and I desperately needed workers.
For the first time in a long time I lost a settler to a barb - the horseman smacked him good. The worst thing about it is that the settler was guarded by two jags - who were found to be derelict in their duty at the time. They both decided to take a walk in nearby woods......together. :hmm: Leaving the settler unprotected.
Needless to say, I don't tolerate that sort of thing in my army. So they were sent to the nearest city to be ritually upgraded and sent to the front.
I don't know when I entered the ancient age exactly - going from saves from around the event it was in the region of 140-200AD. I did quite well with wonders and GLs, I built the colossus and Gardens. I got a GL which i used for the Library and another I used for the FP in salamanca. I also captured the oracle. I also had one GL saved for the start of the MA.
 
ptw 1.27 open

4000bc worker mine, settler se

3950bc found Tenochtitlan>jw; research pottery max-due in 14

3550bc meet america trade WC & CB for Masonry, Pottery and 2g; switch research to alphabet

3000bc meet iroquois and trade masonry for BW+10g
IBT Bede's most advanced tribes: civ1, Americans, civ3, Iroquois, Aztecs, civ4, civ5, civ6

2430bc found 2nd city on spices

2390 buy worker from iroquois for 103g-joined capital

2070bc popped 3rd gh for mysticism (others were angry warriors)

1990bc largest nations: iroquois, civ1, civ3, americans, civ4, civ5, Aztecs, civ6 :(

1375bc trade america writing &7g for the wheel; trade iroquois writing for IW and 20g

1025bc ibt america declared war on iroquois
ibt:Thucydides happiest nations:Aztecs, civ1, Americans, civ5 ,Iroquois, civ4, civ3, civ6

gotm32_1000bc_minimap.jpg


775bc trade iroquois CoL+76g for Polytheism; trade America Polytheism and CoL for MM and World Map (didn't learn much) :(

310bc trade america 131g for mathematics

30ad wealthiest nations:aztecs, americans, civ1, iroquois, civ2, civ6, civ5, civ3

110ad finally had to research literature myself. trade lit+103g to america for construction; trade iroquois lit for 60g(all they had)

320ad hear of massive barbarian uprising-rushed projects until we only had 4g in treasury

370ad I don't believe it-i found a gh :eek: (angry barbs)

390ad finally reach negative per turn treasury on single scientist research - Dow on Iroquois after they refused to gift us with monarchy (was trying republic this game as everyone else seems to like it, but I hate it! Too much unit upkeep costs - it's ok for conquests but not PTW)

capture tonawanda with promotion to elite
capture centralia

460ad after HORRIBLE rng luck (I lost most of 22 horsemen against 4 spears in a size 4 town(not across a river) I made peace with iroquois and got currency for 35g and entered MA

gotm32endAAminimap.jpg
 
4000bc
i believe there is dye S, i can see a little, so i move the settler SE, worker mining

3950bc Tenochtitlan found, building JW, start to research Mysticism

3700bc fininsh JW, move SE, building Temple

3550bc American scout come into our sight, we provide two tech for their Masonry and 10g

2800bc get map from gh

2710bc Teotihuacan found

21250bc the Apache tribe has taught us The Wheel

1625bc know the secret of Polytheism

1300bc built the Oracle :cool:

1200bc Texcoco founded

1000bc 4 towns
250 gold
1 temple
1 granary
1 Great wander
1 barracks
6 JW
3 workers
15 pop
16 turns to Monarchy
23 turns to the Pyramids

950bc trade for Writing from Amarican

650bc german built the pyramids :( we still need 8 turns

630bc built the hanging garden from the pyraimids prebuild

50ad great library
 

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20k challenge - Predator [ptw] 1.27

Found Tenochtitlan 2 tiles SE. The spot is good for 20k city.

Reasons:
  • Palace. It cut downs finish date of a few turns. Depends if you build FP or not
  • Minimal corruption
  • Excellent city dot, Rivers, Mountains, BG, Grass, Coastal
Negative sides:
  • No palace prebuild
Over come the prebuild:
  • Keep up fast research. Throughout be several techs ahead AI. On Monarch achievable
  • Constant wars
  • Eliminate rivals quickly

For those reasons I accomplished rare move. I beeline on Monarchy (no war weariness etc.) 2800BC Mysticism (22t). 1400BC Polytheism (40t). Monarchy 750BC (24t).

I got 3 foreign workers on pre3000BC wars and trades. Tenochtitlan had not to build extra worker. Build orders were 2x Jaguar ->Temple ->Settler ->The Pyramids. Early wonder slowed down. 1000BC I had puny 5 cities (1 from Goody hut). 10 Jaguars, 3 workers (foreign workers joined Teno). The Pyramids. Techs: 7 1fer, IW, Writing, Mysticism, Polytheism, monarchy on 11t.

Wars:
vs AM 3500BC - 2800BC
vs IRQ 3100BC - 2800BC
vs IRQ 670BC - 550BC, Salamanca captured.
AM sneak attack 550BC - 290BC
470BC 1st GL

I managed to delay GA until 670BC. Tenochtitlan at size 12 and produced 30spt during GA.

410BC suicide galley success. With overseas contacts and GA research Aztecs were first civ to reach MA 290BC. At that time 3 techs up IRQ, 2 techs up AM, 4 techs up Civ3, 4 techs up civ4, 4 techs up civ5, 5 techs up civ6, 4 techs up civ7.

Last but not least, Tenochtitlan culture buildings:
3900BC Palace
3150BC Temple
1275BC The Pyramids
750BC The Colossus
470BC The Great Lighthouse
450BC The Great Library (GL)
430BC Library

The Oracle race lost :(

Tenochtitlan at 290BC:
 
DJMGator13 said:
Here is a link for some help with uploading images. You also have to make sure the spelling & CAPITALIZATION is the same in your file name and when you reference it in the post. Also spaces in your file name are converted to an underscored space when uploaded (ie "pic 01.sav" would upload as "pic_01.sav")

That's outdated and not necessary for attachments. I got it to work without referencing uploaded files in the COTM01 spoilers.
 
PTW 1.27 Predator (my first P game)

First turns
Decided to found first city on Coastal non BG and within a couple of turns. So moved Settler N and founded T in 3950BC. First builds were: JW-JW-Barracks_JW-JW-Temple.

First contacts
Iroquois scout spotted in 3500BC. American warrior showed up in 3350BC. Trades gave me Pottery and Masonry.
Goody Huts gave me: Deserted-Map-Settler-Barbs-Mysticism-Map-The wheel-Deserted.

1000BC
5 cities, 15 pop, 13 Chariots, 7 JWs Math in one turn. America start building Pyramids in 1025BC.

Wars
725BC, traded for HBR for upgrades to Horsemen. DoW Iroquois in 675BC. Went a little too far in attempts to get a GL so tried to heal and wait for Iroquois cities to be at least size 2 before attacking them. This resulted in a prolonged war vs. Iroquois. Peace with Iroquois in 290BC, they are down to one city in NE. Total of 6 elite attacks - no GLs.

230BC Massive uprisings so Middle age is here or at least somewhere in the world...

190BC first in a long row of galleys sunk while attempting to cross the oceans of this world. My second came within 1 turn of calmer waters before sinking but I will be long into the next spoiler before my tenth galley eventually makes it across. More about that in the next spoiler.

30BC X on another continent builds the pyramids and America, with just a few turns to go has to switch to Great Library, eventually build it in 70AD.

130AD 20 turns have finally passed since my peace agreement with Iroquois. DoW and after 3 more Elite attacks their last city falls.

Final turns in AA
270AD republic and in 300AD i finally enter the middle ages.

Summary
Indecisive play in the first phase of the game was followed by a better focus w. Chariot builds in prep for a war vs. Iroquois. Too focused on trying to get a GL during the war so was not in a position to conduct a campaign vs. Americans during AA. Maybe I was a bit to cautious not attacking America with Horsemen/JWs? They had Swordsmen but I might have been able to break their back without waiting for better units in the next era.
I kept up with my neighbours tech research but apparently not with the pace on other continents, as the barb.uprisings made me aware of.
 
This is my third GOTM and after 2 losses, i decided to change my strategy.
My failure was to try to win by culture but i have not enough experience with micromanagment and such things. So it doesn't work well and i switched to attack my neighbours. But even too late (means the AI's are too strong at this time) so i wasted hundrets of years with war and without culture growing.
And at the end one AI wins by Spaceship.

On this GOTM i tried to conquer my whole starting landmass bevor the MA ends. With an early UU and a, i think, good starting position it should work.

drgotm32pic1.JPG


I started 1 tile SE, because rivers arround a city are not really good for unit movement.
It's a big landmass with long ways for units, so i decided to use my neighbours as city builders. I started with the iroquois and i captured the first three citys on about 900BC. 2 citys are raized because of the one citicen problem. After this i made peace because theres too much open land and i hope the iroquois filled it up.

drgotm32pic2.JPG


I entered the MA about 400AD

The barbs made me some trouble but with horseman and swordsman, i could milk theire camps and own the cach.

Moderator Action: Sorry, Detlef, this spoiler is limited to the Ancient Age, so I've edited the last parts of your post. Please wait for the next spoiler thread to post details of your Middle Ages progress. -- AlanH.
 
Where has everyone been putting the Forbidden Palace?

I placed mine in Salamanca. Niagra Falls is now my most productive city!
 
I built mine in right next to the capital, hoping someday get a GL and move the Palace to a distant land.

I've had very poor luck with leader generation. I've probably had over 30 elite victories and have yet to get my first one. I know they'll all start appearing after all the wonders are gone and the game is won.
 
denyd said:
I've had very poor luck with leader generation. I've probably had over 30 elite victories and have yet to get my first one. I know they'll all start appearing after all the wonders are gone and the game is won.

denyd, it's better to get no leader while still having the game, than getting a bunch of leaders but messing up the saves. i got 3 of them but the game is no longer there. :cry:
 
I spawned 2 leaders in my war with Iroquois. My first leader became a Horse Army. Unfortunately, that Army did not last long. I had forgotton that Armies are not as effective in CivIII compared to Conquests. I formed a Sword Army with my second leader - he's still hanging around.
There were no Wonders available to build at the time other than the Great Library but I didn't want it and I did not know Literature anyway. I would have used one of them on Pyramids in a heart beat if it had not already been built.
My war with America produced 2 Leaders as well. One went for the FP, and the other for [a MI Wonder that enhances Science output].
 
PtW 1.27 Predator

I settled one tile south of the start as it looked like I could squeeze in the most cities in the space initially seen.
Builds: Jag->Jag->Barracks->Settler

Initial research was pottery, but after meeting Iroquois scout in 3550 changed to Alpha. Met Abe in 3450 and traded for Masonry.
I did run research in the 80-100% region for most of the AA (trading techs and hunting barbs).

GHs gave BW, Myst and a Settler in the SW.

At 1000BC I had:

7 Cities
20 Pop
2 Granaries
2 Barracks
3 Temples

14 Jags
3 Archers
4 Workers + 1 slave
1 Settler

All first and second tier techs except HBR. In addition MapMaking and Currency, researching literature.

pic_5.jpg


After that it was suicide galley time. But it took till 430BC and a lot of galleys for the first contact. By 390BC I had all contacts and all maps. Strange thing the other continent was even behind in tech. I was researching Republic at this time with construction and polytheismus missing for MA.
When Rep came in in 330BC I had to note that I had too many units (17 villages and 46 units and still producing horsies). I also didn't want to disband Jags, because the Barb uprising would be in a few turns (I traded construction for republic from Iroquois! not some of the overseas civs). So I stayed in Despotism for the rest of the AA.
I entered MA in 210BC, still no war and I'm researching Monarchy, to have the first war (and golden age) with a decent government.
pic_6.jpg


I didn't build any AA wonder (my cities are still all quite pathetic in shield production).
 
I also had forgotton just how effective the FP is in vanilla CivIII. The second ring of very productive cities is huge. Niagra Falls and Salamanca are my top-two producing cities as far as Shields go.
I had also forgotton how bad the corruption is in CivIII. I have Courthouses in a couple of my American cities, and yet I still get only 1 shield! What a waste.
 
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