SGOTM 9 - Smurkz

I'm only on turn 3 so I think I'm just going to play 5 and pass it on. That gives a little time for discussion and maybe someone can pick it up this weekend.

Edit: well, well. Mrs. Wardance just called and she wants to go out with "the girls" tonight, so I could finish my ten if that's all right.

Aye, go ahead and play your ten. And forward our thanks to Mrs. WarDance!

Btw, I just hit the "submit" button on the final version of my paper.
Time for some civving!

Congratulations, Niklas! I bet you're pleased to be finished.

As a little teaser, our forces are about to land on American soil...
and America is in Anarchy

WarDance said:

As a little teaser, our forces are about to land on American soil...
and America is in Anarchy

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Terrific! Then your idea of giving them Republic was GENIUS, PURE GENIOUS!

Um, did you wait for them to finish the Great Wall? Probably not if your only on turn 3.

The Great Wall is of no consequence, it's not the modded version so it will be completely useless to whoever owns it.

And the Republic trick was a beauty!

Sure it's worthless, but it's a wonder and I want it. Better to capture a wonder in SF than throwing out 200s. Actually though, there's still a chance that they've accumulated enough sheilds anyway and it'll complete on the cascade as predicted. The AI get a discount at this level so it won't need the full 200s.

EDIT: dont let my silly obsession with wonders overshadow the brilliant play to get America in Anarchy before going to war.

They cascaded to the Great Wall the same turn we finished the Great Library.

I'm fixing some dinner for the kiddos (well actually I'm typing right now) and then can probably play a couple turns, finishing up later tonight.

WarDance said:

They cascaded to the Great Wall the same turn we finished the Great Library.

I'm fixing some dinner for the kiddos (well actually I'm typing right now) and then can probably play a couple turns, finishing up later tonight.

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Ahhh....my jones for a new wonder is satisfied.

Just an update.

We've taken Atlanta, San Francisco and the Great Wall, and Seattle. Washington is proving to be a tough nut to crack. 3 turns to go.

What, no Boston.

You could starve down Washington. It's getting a bonus on defense because of size. Break the luxury road by sitting on it and they will be very unhappy.

The save http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Smurkz_SG009_AD0450_01.SAV

I feel things went well, though not as well as I hoped on the America front. I took Atlanta, San Francisco, Seattle, and Houston. Washington was a bust. I retreated units twice from there. It may be worth trying to starve it down as CF suggested, though I'm not really sure how to do that effectively. There are 8 horses and 3 swords ready to move on it now. That might be enough to take it outright at this point. It is currently size 8. I moved a settler towards the New Zentral site escorted by a MI and an archer. I'm wary of settling it right now though. We may want to rush some MI in Entremont and use them on Chicago. Or maybe just drop the settler near the planned site to "grab" the land and hold it.

Maintained 4 turn research very easily and with positive cashflow. I did a bit of rushing but kept the treasury at about 2000 gold. It toook a while to get galleys upgraded as I was working them hard. Most of them are moving into harbor towns now for upgrades and I upgraded 4 I think already. They have a move of 9!!! If I had known that I might have tried to do some sooner. Had my first experiences with ship chaining and it is really cool. Some of the boats are in pretty wacky spots but it won't take much to get them in order.

I tried really hard to use smart worker moves but it really broke down on the last couple turns. I was getting tired and a little sloppy. CF, I'm sure you'll cringe when you load the save.

I founded a couple new towns but wasn't in the right frame of mind for coming up with names. Feel free to rename them.

Built lots of Barracks and a whole lot of units will be ready in the next few turns.

The towns south of House of the Beard are feeling really crowded. Lots of wacky tile swapping made it feel even worse. Not much room for them to grow.

Copernicus is due in 8 turns, Leonardo's in 15. I didn't think about this until now but we could start Sistine in Zentral if we want to. Chemistry is due in 3 turns at +76 gold per turn.

I'll get my log posted tonight before I go to bed.

Edit:I know Niklas' doesn't like this idea but we may want to go for cavalry. It would really help A LOT. If we don't I strongly recommend we start adding muskets to the mix. It is so irritating to have elite swords and MI's being the defenders against counterattacks when we're trying to get leaders with them.

Another edit: The Ottoman culture from Bursa is starting to worry me, and I have an idea on how to fix it. I declared on them on turn 9 to try for some leader fishing with those elite horses. They sent out 1 archer and 1 spear. That might be about all they have other than defenders in Bursa proper. What we could do is raze Bursa and make a peace deal. Then settle a town on the same spot where Bursa was and give it back to the Ottomans. Then they have to start building culture all over again. Their capital will then go to the Mongol/ Ottoman island and if the Mongols get uppity and take it, the capital comes back to the Bursa spot.

WarDance said:

The save http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Smurkz_SG009_AD0450_01.SAV

Click to expand...

Has this save been doctored by AlanH yet?

CommandoBob said:

Has this save been doctored by AlanH yet?

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No, I highly doubt it. We have to tell him that we're ready for it.

WarDance said:

Another edit: The Ottoman culture from Bursa is starting to worry me, and I have an idea on how to fix it. I declared on them on turn 9 to try for some leader fishing with those elite horses. They sent out 1 archer and 1 spear. That might be about all they have other than defenders in Bursa proper. What we could do is raze Bursa and make a peace deal. Then settle a town on the same spot where Bursa was and give it back to the Ottomans. Then they have to start building culture all over again. Their capital will then go to the Mongol/ Ottoman island and if the Mongols get uppity and take it, the capital comes back to the Bursa spot.

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Raze Bursa, oh yes.
Resettle, Ok, too.
But don't give it back to them. That just makes it a problem for us later.
Instead, gift them a prison island of their very own, where the do not have to share resources with the Mongols.
(Hmm, if we raze Bursa, then Izmit over on Ottoman-Mongol-Island becomes the capital. Capitals don't flip, but can be captured. That means one less civ to help lower research costs for India. Yeah, a new prison makes sense.)

Prison Islands
As of now, there are seven possible prison islands:

• Ottoman-Mongol Island (OMI)
• Detroit (America)
• St. Louis (America)
• Isle of Thunderfall (Smurkz)
• Vitoria (Spain)
• Tundra Island (unoccupied, discovered by ControlFreak)
• some island SW of Boston, not fully explored

The first three can support two cities, which may or not be very important.

I would propose that we leave OMI alone. We let America keep St.Louis and allow Spain to keep Vitoria. We capture Detroit, raze it, resettle it as AlanH and give it away. We settle Tundra Island (Gyathaar ?) and give it away. We give Isle of Thunderfall away. The unnamed island we leave uninhabited and unimproved, to show that we care about the environment.

This would lead to:

• Ottoman-Mongol Island (OMI) Mongol (probably)
• Detroit ?
• St. Louis America
• Isle of Thunderfall ?
• Vitoria Spain
• Tundra Island ?
• unnamed island SW of Boston ?

Which would leave Carthage, Celts, Ottomans needing prison island assignments.

Partial turn log. Too sleepy to finish.

Turn 0) 350 AD: Micromanage towns per CF and Niklas' instructions. Education in 1 turn at +133gpt. Hurry settler in Sabratha for 116 gold. Sabratha should disband and gain a settler next turn. Victoria switches to harbor. Smurkz point switches to barracks. Move horse and swords on the atoll looking for barbs.

IBT: Education. Astronomy in 7 at current rate. New Smurkzheim:settler->settler. Sabratha abandoned for a settler. Arismurkz:horse->MI Albasmurkze: worker->worker. Vladivosmurkz: horse->MI

Turn 1) 360 AD: HotB switches to niversity in 6. Sell Republic to Spain for 34gpt, 10 coins and a map. Shave 2 turns off of Zentral's university. Make peace with the Celts and then gift them Sing Sing. Units on the atoll spot 2 barb horses. Settler from Sabratha moves 1 NW. Wake up spears by Carthage and send them north to the undefended towns by Bursa. They get replaced with a couple horses. Catapults start north to Bursa area. Load 2 horses by Smuez. Play with sliders and specialists to get Astro in 4.

IBT: 2 barb horses attack e.sword on atoll. both die and sword takes one hit. 'Adelphia: horse->MI. Olive: horse->MI. Smuez: galley->galley

Turn 2) 370 AD: Boats in range of San Francisco. Halasmurkz founded NW of old Sabratha site. begins library? (what I mean when I put a question mark after a build is I'm not sure what the best thing to build there is at the moment and may switch later). Move a bunch of boats west. Kristainsund founded on the atoll.

Entertainment slider to 0%. Missi, 'Food, and 'Grad get entertainers. Zentral gets a scientist without delaying the university build. Astronomy in 3 at +47gpt.

Sell Republic to Lincoln for his map

IBT: barb horse attacks e.sword on the atoll and dies. Smurkzgrad builds the Great Library!!! begins a market. Oy'Deer: worker->library. Smurkz River: horse->horse. Indianapo':horse->horse. Albasmurkze: worker->worker. Smurkz am zee: worker->barracks.

San Francisco cascades to the Great Wall!!!

Turn 3) 380 AD: Load 2 horses by Tromsmurkz. complete 3 mines at Misssi. America is in anarchy! DOW on America. Move swords in by Atlanta and unload boats by San Fran. Jungle tile I unloaded on is not roaded so I can't unload the catapult. Oops.

e.horse from Richborough attacks wounded American horse. Wins and goes 3/5.

Smurkzfood is size 10 and unhappy. They get an entertainer and a taxman. Their market will be done in 4. Hurry galley in Tromsmurkz for 56 and galley in Smurkastle for 12.

Astronomy in 2 at +95

IBT: Redlined american archer goes for our wounded horse and kills it. Albasmurkze: worker->aqueduct? Smurkzacabana: library... 27beakers per turn in this town! They start a university. Tromsmurkz: galley->galley. Smurkastle: galley->harbor

Turn 4)390 AD: The Battle for Atlanta: size 6
e.sword vs r.spear, barely wins going 1/5
v.sword vs r.spear, loses, spear 2/4
v.sword vs 2/4 spear, wins, now 3/4
v.sword vs r.archer, wins, 2/4. Atlanta taken

The Battle for San Francisco, Home of The Great Wall: size 5
e.sword vs r.spear, wins 3/5
v.MI vs r.spear, loses! spear 2/4
v.horse vs 2/4 spear, wins, now 3/4. San Francisco and The Great Wall now belong to the mighty Vikings!

Load 2 horses in Tromsmurkz. Sometimes it was easier to have a boat meet units instead of sending the units to a rally point.

Switch New Smurkzheim to palace so forest chops will go to Oy Deer. Smurkzheim was building a settler and is nearly done. Shields would have been wasted. Load one horse and one MI in Smurkastle. Mine another plains at Missi. Drop 2 MI and 4 horses S of Seattle. Unload catapult in San Fran. Astronomy in 1 at +103gpt.

IBT: Astronomy! City of Sages switches to Copernicus in 14. Resistance ends in Atlanta and San Fran. Zentral: university->barracks. Vladivo': MI->MI

Turn 5) 400 AD: America still in anarchy

Looking good!

Some initial thoughts:

• Leo's + Cop's would trigger our GA. This is too early IMO, we need the GA to fuel research later in the game. Also, we do not really need Leo's. Perhaps switch Leo's to Smith? We have enough time to research the necessary techs.
• We don't need the Chapel yet, as India remains quiet. We need it by the time we release India, some 30 (?) turns from now. So Zentral would be excellent timing.
• Do we want the other civs to help us with research? They could do some optionals for us (chivalry, navigation, etc), but that means we have to gift them up. Also, we need to prevent trading opportunities for India, again by gifting up the other civs.
• When to take out Spain? Do we want Spain to stay around as research and trade partner for a while? They will fall behind no matter what, and their land is of no value to us (except for the luxes, but we can trade for them). Maybe we should let them stick around for a while, hopefully they'll pick up some optional techs for us.
• Do we have a dotmap for the American island?
• We need more infra to keep up 4 turn research in the IA, especially in the palace core. Libs, markets and uni's in the first ring, the same + courts in the second. There is little point in improvements in corrupt towns in the south (Kalmurkz etc), they won't finish in time.
• Our workers are stacked in strange numbers. I hope this is correct, as we really cannot afford to waste worker actions at this stage. We'll get to rails in 30 turns or so, and there is alot to improve in the palace core and the new FP core.

I PM-ed AlanH that our save is ready.

CommandoBob said:

I would propose that we leave OMI alone. We let America keep St.Louis and allow Spain to keep Vitoria. We capture Detroit, raze it, resettle it as AlanH and give it away. We settle Tundra Island (Gyathaar ?) and give it away. We give Isle of Thunderfall away. The unnamed island we leave uninhabited and unimproved, to show that we care about the environment.

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I like the names. The plan "each civ their own island" sounds good too.

Your save awaits collection from the clinic here:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/sgotm9/Smurkz_SG009_AD0450_02.SAV

Alright, looking good!

The war seems to have been stalled a bit, but that's no worry. You did fine.

Roster:

• CommandoBob
• ControlFreak
• WarDance - Just Played
• zyxy - UP!
• Niklas - On Deck!
• Methos - ghosting

Sorry about the jungle/catapult thing. I forgot about that. Sounds like we started off OK.

I would be using regular MI before elite swords. They have a better chance at winning and letting the elite wait for weaker foes.

I think the prison islands is the lesser of two evils and agree. It will be a pain declaring war every 20 turns to raze another city but so be it.

If we take Tadpole, I'm not opposed to keeping Spain around for the rest of the game. They could occupy all the corrupt land we're not using to prevent the OCCs from resettling. If they are really good at research, they will help at least with some optional techs.

Then we just declare on them when they get close to spaceship.

About wonder-triggered GA, won't owning the Great wall do the same as Leos? I think the GA starts in 14 unless we raze SF. Didn't look at it though so I could be wrong.

You're right, zyxy, the workers are in strange numbers. I worked hard in the beginning to make smart worker moves but it kind of fell apart towards the end. Worker turns are still one of my many weak points

Wonders triggering our Golden Age! We didn't really consider that. I agree that Leo's should be scrapped and the Great Wall abandoned. Maybe switch Missi to Sistine's just to get it out of the way? Switching to University there would waste 133 shields. There's nothing else available to build at the moment other than Sun Tzu's, which would trigger our GA too.

About the island prison plan, we don't want to gift any of our close neighbors off to those other islands because Spain or America will be likely to meet them before we want them to. We could gift the Celts back over there though and get rid of Sing Sing.

I like the idea of leaving Spain their mainland and letting them be a trading partner for a while. In the late game, though, we'll need to be able to hit them really hard to prevent them from building a spaceship.

I'll try to find some time this morning to finish my turn log.