Hinge of Fate Version 2- World War 2, 1941-1945

When I compare the two games: Tora and Stuka, I like Tora better because the time scale is much more fine grained. Things such as worker job duration and naval movement reflects the weekly changes in unit deployment. In Stuka, I can do some really unexpected things within my own turn without interference... especially creating rails on the same turn... I do like the older version's time scale.

I also don't quite like the new naval movement system... it makes convoy interception very difficult and position prediction impossible.

I have some ideas about improving the scenario:
1) Add a great wonder in Paris called 'Liberation of Paris' that is only active when controlled by the Minor Allies government type. This wonder produces 1 infantry division per turn - this represents the remobilization of French forces after liberation. It would be interesting to have these 'bonus' objectives.
2) Remove construction crews or reduce its movement to only 1. This unit broke the Stuka game.
3) I'm still toying with the idea of a custom tech tree for each civ. There could be more historical flavour. For example, Mobile Warfare 2 for CW could be renamed Anglo-American Cooperation.
4) Perhaps there should be a tech that upgrades infantry (eg Military Reorganization, Assault Weapons, etc). Say German Infantry Corp 1941 upgrades to German Infantry Corp 1944. I know as the war went on, the basic infantryman has certainly become much deadlier (inventions such as the bazooka, panzerfaust, assault rifles, etc).

Tech Guy:
Thanks for the feedback. I think the Paris wonder idea is great, I will
add it in a future realease.

The monthly turns and fast naval movement works really well in the single
player games, as for multiplayer I will reserve judgement until I have
tried a couple of MP games, I have a few strategies I'd like to try.

How about a house rule restricting the construction units to Germany?

BUGs fixed HOF 2.05->2.06

1. CW DD to ASW DD upgrade was broken.
2. US & CW Inf Divs changed from wheeled to foot, otherwise they are useless as infantry in the
Pacific because they cannot enter enter jungle. But they now require oil and rubber to build.
3. Added upgrade button to 4 Stacker DD, Upgrades to fast transport. Cost of 4 stacker reduced
(they are not buildable anyway) otherwise upgrade would be free.
4. Filled Arctic Ocean with coast tiles to simulate ice pack.
5. US submarine to advanced sub upgrade was broken also.

SETUP issues:
Daunltess in Gibraltar -> Skua (SP allied)
Delete transport W Africa (SP allied)
Added Flak unit in Tobruk
Added Flak unit in Dakar, removed biplane fighter.
Added extra food sources near Alexandria & Asyut

Added US airbase on the big island of Hawaii

Fixed some minor bugs in V2.06:
1. U-boat no stealth attack on CW CLAA & US CA (in some versions)
2. Light carrier cost & defense strength wrong.
3. Two German destroyers were named Z-16
4. SHINANO CV COST TO HIGH 200->140

Also made some changes in Single player version to enhance
AI performance - SP AXIS :
Replaced some infantry divison and corps in the UK and US with marines and airborne
units to enhance the AI invasion capability.
U-Boat works production rate decreased to 1 uboat every 3 turns
Add Paris Island wonder, Charleston, build US marine div every 2 turns.
Increase Russian cultural boundaries to stop destruction of Roads/rails.

Fixed Spelling Mistakes:
Radar Controled Flak
AxisTransport

I would just like to say that I love your mod. It plays very well and turn times are LIGHTNING compared to most WWII global mods that I have played. Thanks for your hard work, and keep it up!

stforb2 said:

I would just like to say that I love your mod. It plays very well and turn times are LIGHTNING compared to most WWII global mods that I have played. Thanks for your hard work, and keep it up!

Click to expand...

Thanks!! The turn speed is acheived by limiting the number of cities and
trade routes. Only cities with commercial docks can trade over seas. I can't
take credit for the trade route idea, it was someone else who posted it
on the forum but I can't remember who.

aksully E-mailed the following comments/suggestions. I am posting them
here so others can comment while I deal which each topic.

Hi Eric..our game is approaching the point where you guys are going to crush us! Well Done! Anyhow..here's the map for you to look at. The Karakan Mountain Range is a natural barrier the entire length of the Burma Coastline. Nice fertile plains to the west of the mountain range for amphib landings. But then..they have to cross over the mountain range.

As to the movement costs of terrain. INfantry entering mountains should cost 2 MPs without roads. Civ simplifies movements. It should be damn hard to move to a mountain tile and it should cost alot!!! IF not be impossible! If that can't be managed then maybe a rule that allows only one friendly Infantry unit in any mountain tile. And to build a road in a mountain tile should take a long time!

Couple of other comments for you to consider;

China; The Stillwell Wonder is good. But if you have it available to China in 1941 and they dont have to build it...then it should pump out a Chindit Div every 6 months. IF..the Burma Road is intact...if that can't be built in..have the Wonder produce a Chindits Div every 9 Months.

China should not be able to produce low cost Infantry Divisions without Iron and Saltpeter.Keep the Attack and Defense Factors..but takes 6 months to build a Chinese Infantry Div as they are now...but they have to have the resources. If no resources...Chinese Cities can raise Militia Divisions in 2 Months with factors of 1-2-1.

The Harris Bomber Wonder is Good. But it should either be that or you build Lancasters on your own. Not both. And the Lancasters first operational mission wasn't until March-April 1942. So...the British need to research the ability to produce Lancasters at the start of the game...not have it available. In lieu of the Harris Bomber PLant. Give Britian at the start of the game a WOnder called Fighter Command. Where it produces a Spitfire Sqdn every 3 months.

It seems looking at the the Occupied Europe map that German Airfields and Fighter Sqdns, and Flak are less than historical at the start of HOF. Every Airfield should have two German Fighter Sqdns plus a RCFlak unit. THe tenacity of German fighters and ack ack is the reason the RAF went to night bombing. It should not be an easy thing for the RAF to bomb Occupied Europe! AND the same for Germany. By late 1941..there were lots of British Fighter Sqdns!!!

Anyhow...just some observations for you to consider. You have done a remarkable job in creating HOF Eric. Its a Gem!!!

I still maintain the game lacks from Seaplane Tenders and Float Planes on certain CAs and BBs.

Oh and SNLFs...are unique units. They can't be built but you must be sure that all units start the game. They should have an Attack Factor of 8 and a Defensive Factor of 10, and movment of 2. They were exceptionally trained and led units that fought and defended at twice their size!!!

Hope this helps

Sully

1. Invasion of Burma - I don't have any problems with modifying the terrain
on the west coast of Burma to make it less "invadeable". Landing armor
there should not be possible.

2. The movement cost of mountains is 3. Armor and heavy arty cannot enter
mountains unless there is a road because they a flagged as "wheeled".

More to come...

Thanks! And a note on the SNLF units for Japan. I know the Attack & Defense Factors may seem high for a Brigade sized unit. But for their time they were the best trained, led, equipped units at the start of the war. And still at the end of the war they fought like a Division sized unit. They should and did require a substantial effort to clear them from the occupied isles.

I'm working on a map revision for you to look at Eric. Should be coming soon.

Sully

aksully said:

Thanks! And a note on the SNLF units for Japan. I know the Attack & Defense Factors may seem high for a Brigade sized unit. But for their time they were the best trained, led, equipped units at the start of the war. And still at the end of the war they fought like a Division sized unit. They should and did require a substantial effort to clear them from the occupied isles.

I'm working on a map revision for you to look at Eric. Should be coming soon.

Sully

Click to expand...

Sully:
I did some research on the SNLFs. These were battallion not brigade
size units with a peak pre-war strength of 1200 men. This makes them
a micro-unit in a scenario of this scale. I think I was probably overly
generous to give them an attack factor of 4. The lone exception seems
to be the 7th Saesbo which defeded Tarawa in 1943 with a strength
of 2600.

If I did error, it was in quantity, not quality because the Wikipedia
entry says there was 16 of them at the start of the war and there
are only 9 in HOF, although some units were parachute or armor
units.

Anyway check the Wikipedia entry here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Special_Naval_Landing_Forces

Now on to the next topic on Sully's list:

The Lancaster unit represents ALL British 4 engined bombers including
the Hailfax and Stirling which were both in service well before the scenario
begins, so Britain keeps the tech.

I tried to address the imbalance betwen Allied strategic bombing and
Axis repair capabilty by introducing the construction brigade units
but they always seem to end up on the Eastern Front! What I propose is a
2 player test game up to say mid-43 where the brigades are
stictly limited to Germany and France. Who wants the CW? I'll take Germany,
let the AI play the play the rest.

Eric, I appreciate you looking at my observations. I understand your point too and its well taken in considering the Lancaster Unit representing earlier CE bombers. So I would propose that they either get built by the CW player at a slightly elevated price OR let it be autoproduced.....Not both.

Now I haven't played the germans or cw so all I'm doing is making observations of what I've seen during the game.

And perhaps its not just the construction brigades that are needed. Does Germany start with all available AFs and Fighter Units at historical 1941 levels? Can the Germans be given all RCF units??? Could their AA effectiveness be increased?? Could the German be given 2-3 RCF per AF and city?? As I see it, due to CIv3 limitations that there is a fairly large disparity between the number of bomber sorties and their degree of destruction versus Fighter interception and Flak Damage???? I mean if we look at TG's bomber #s and combat results in the current game...how realistic are they???
Just looking at his combat results and he's doing incredible damage with what appears to be nearly non-existant losses!!!???

Again just my opinion based upon observations.
TY Eric for hearing me out on this...

I remain a staunch supporter of your marvelous creations!!
Sully

Eric, I'll take the CW unless HAS or Spart feel they have a vested interest in this.
Sully

aksully said:

And perhaps its not just the construction brigades that are needed. Does Germany start with all available AFs and Fighter Units at historical 1941 levels? Can the Germans be given all RCF units???
Sully

Click to expand...

Sully:
I counted the number of air units in Hearts of Iron and divided everything in
half since the HOF air units are twice as large. I noticed there is a JU-88
unit in Paris with the designation JG-55, a JG is a fighter unit so I may
have made a mistake.

Jagdgeschwader is reserved for fighter wings. Those e-mailed observations from aksully are very profound thanks for sharing them.

On to the next issue on Sully's list - Chinese Infantry

In most of the games I have played China gets crushed by Japan
which is not historical, so I'm not sure we need to slow production.
But if it was necessary to make adjustments, by far the easiest way to
do it is by tweaking the attack and defense factors.

Our current Juno game has led me to wonder if some tweaking of submarines
is needed. The subs were lethal until early '43, I was not able to get
a single transport across the Atlantic. Then once we got Nav Av 2
tech the U-boat menace was pretty much over in a couple of turns.
What I was thinking was maybe lower the attack factor by 1 and
raise the defense factor by 1 on the basic subs. Then split the sub
upgrade path into 2 techs, improved subs and advanced subs. These
techs would be cheaper than the current advanced sub tech, giving
the subs a chance to keep up with the ASW techs.

Interesting points Eric. I need to jump into a couple of books to look at the UBoat issue. Bow again not having played the Germans I don't have a feel for the them. But our game seems to reflect actual events in the Battle for the Atlantic! Early advantage to the UBoats and German Surface Ships then technology shifts the balence to the Allies. I'll dig into this some for a better perspective.

A couple of random thoughts...

1) Do the Germans have any German Raiders? Might be interesting to allow for these low priced hi-gunned Raiders into the fray. Might consider giving them stealth?? Might be fun.

2) Map observations almost done.

3) I know you are a little hesitant in adding seaplanes and floatplanes along with CVEs. But they were units that played a crucial part in the early part of the war especially for the IJN.

4) the last comment for the moment still my thoughts that IJN DDs & CAs do not reflect the quality that they enjoyed over the Allies ships of similar class. Here are my arguements; IJN crews were more experienced at the beginning. Their use of lookouts and optics gave them a radar-like capability for almost the entire war up unto the large numbers of Fleet CVs with the advantage of aircraft starting in '44. Finally most IJN CAs made extensive use of their own floatplanes and landbased seaplanes. Oh lets not forget their incredible edge with the LongLance torps that were still the best torp in the Pacific until 1944 for the allies.

Sully

Hi Eric, I downloaded what I thought was everything for your HOV version 2 and it's telling me the pediaicons.txt is missing heavy bomber plant. Am I missing something. Is there a patch or something that I didn't see?

Gary Childress said:

Hi Eric, I downloaded what I thought was everything for your HOV version 2 and it's telling me the pediaicons.txt is missing heavy bomber plant. Am I missing something. Is there a patch or something that I didn't see?

Click to expand...

Gary:
Check the path to the pediaicons.txt file, it should look like this:

C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Civilization III Complete\Conquests\Scenarios\HOF_V2\Text