OVERLORD (1941 Start) - Second World War In Europe, North Africa, and the Soviet Union

Meteor Man · Jul 6, 2023

Someone took the time to leave an... interesting review for the mod in the comments in the Steam Civ3 community hub:

I don't think this person knows how modding this game works :lol:

The idea of defining units based on battalion type and not equipment is an interesting one. But it would lead to a whole lot of units that are basically jacks-of-all-trades, that can attack, defend, bombard, etc. all on their own. Which would completely destroy the combined-arms balance that the mod has now. Idk how to explain that to them.

Kind of annoying when someone who obviously doesn't mod Civ3 comes in hot with "lots of work but nothing that improves playability" and "does it really serve any purpose?" :rolleyes:

Like, ok dude, you do the modding next time.

edit: This comment really irked me. But the idea of having a unit like, eg. "Panzer Battalion" that you essentially upgrade over the course of the game is an interesting one. TBQH, I enjoy moving around individual artillery, panzer, infantry, commando, etc. units as I think it is more hands-on and enables more micromanagement. But a streamlined scenario could maybe make use of such combined units.

I think the real problem here though is in the Civ3 engine, units are fragile. They die often in battle, even with the new retreat mechanics. (We can't change the probability of retreat. (Yet?)) Units fight to the death, never retreating in the middle of battle. The game plays best with lots of units being pumped out of many cities.

AnthonyBoscia · Jul 6, 2023

Some people just ain't gonna dig what you cooking. I wouldn't give it a second thought. Tell him you'll refund 100% of what he paid for it.

I like the city graphics. Especially how the graphics can show the player what kinds of things can be built in the city. This is something that Civ 3 does really well, giving the player a lot of pertinent information. Without 24 different map modes like what's-their-names.

Meteor Man · Jul 6, 2023

AnthonyBoscia said:
Especially how the graphics can show the player what kinds of things can be built in the city.

I'll try to lean into that going forward. Right now this is not the case; eg. factories are not always just for industrial cities, they can be found in the default Polish and Russian city graphics as well iirc.

Arexander · Jul 6, 2023

I'm pretty sure the veterancy of the unit determines the retreat chance, so it might be worth checking those in the editor.

Meteor Man · Jul 6, 2023

Arexander said:
I'm pretty sure the veterancy of the unit determines the retreat chance, so it might be worth checking those in the editor.

Over a decade modding this game and I never noticed that!

Here's what I found regarding retreat mechanics:

JMK said:
This article has been written by BomberEscort
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?postid=1278822#post1278822
What we know about retreating...
When the Attackers retreat value is 50 percentage points greater than the Defender, the Attacker always retreats
When the Attackers and Defenders retreat values are zero, the attacker will never retreat
The slow-Defenders retreat bonus does factor into the ability of the fast-Attacker to retreat. The greater the difference in the attackers favor, the greater the chance of retreat.
There is no way to create a slow-unit that will always block a fast-units retreat.
The range for an elite fast-attacker is 55-75% retreat in valid cases.
The range for a veteran fast-attacker is 50-66% retreat in valid cases.
The range for a regular fast-attacker is 43-56% retreat in valid cases.
The range for an conscript fast-attacker is 29-38% retreat in valid cases.
The best-guess for the retreat formula is:

(100*Attacker Retreat Bonus)/(50+Defense Retreat Bonus)

Credit to Oystein for this discovery...

This formula is also modified by the chance of the fast-attacker/fast-defender reaching 1hp before the slow-defender/slow-attacker reaches 1hp... The larger the difference between A/D values, the less this effects the results. Testing above was done with a 2 Attack fast-attacker v. 1000 Defense slow-Defender...

But I am unsure if I really want to fiddle with these values as it may interfere with how often conscript and regular defenders retreat. I would like to tune it so that all units are more likely to retreat but I don't think that is possible. If I increase the range between the Elite and Conscript retreat bonus, that makes vets more likely to retreat but the opposite for conscripts and regulars. Whereas if I decrease the range between Elite and Conscript, all units retreat less often.

Moff Jerjerrod · Jul 7, 2023

Don't pay any attention to that guys negative comments. The Overlord mod you have created truly does transform C3C into HOI3 but turn based. Like I said before this is a masterpiece. And us WW2 geeks absolutely can tell the difference between a PzKpfW II Ausf. C and a PzKpfW III Ausf. J at max zoom out of the map!!

Here is a brief snippet of my current campaign, week 4 of 1942 (Taken from an AAR I posted on another gaming forum):

The Wehrmacht have been besieging Tula on the outskirts of Moscow for about 4 months or 16 game turns now. Just south of Tula lies Orel which is in danger of falling. I've got several tank regiments trapped there supported by local militia. Stavka has been trying to create a corridor between Tula and Orel in an attempt to rush reinforcements in but progress has been tough.

Further south Kiev is under threat from a large Italian force of mixed units supported by lots of artillery. Here I have a chance of holding out as the Crimea has not fallen and I'm sending units over the Kerch peninsula to build up a counterattack.

Meanwhile our scientist have developed the 'Backhand Blow' doctrine. The tech tree in this scenario as a spot on duplication of the HOI3 tech tree. I'm blown away at how I'm actually playing HOI3 as a turn based game. Paradox dropped the ball badly by not going the TBS route. This scenario is perfect for a person who prefers not to twitch thumbs and fingers playing an RTS game.

Meteor Man · Jul 7, 2023

Moff Jerjerrod said:
Don't pay any attention to that guys negative comments. The Overlord mod you have created truly does transform C3C into HOI3 but turn based. Like I said before this is a masterpiece. And us WW2 geeks absolutely can tell the difference between a PzKpfW II Ausf. C and a PzKpfW III Ausf. J at max zoom out of the map!!

Here is a brief snippet of my current campaign, week 4 of 1942 (Taken from an AAR I posted on another gaming forum):

The Wehrmacht have been besieging Tula on the outskirts of Moscow for about 4 months or 16 game turns now. Just south of Tula lies Orel which is in danger of falling. I've got several tank regiments trapped there supported by local militia. Stavka has been trying to create a corridor between Tula and Orel in an attempt to rush reinforcements in but progress has been tough.

Further south Kiev is under threat from a large Italian force of mixed units supported by lots of artillery. Here I have a chance of holding out as the Crimea has not fallen and I'm sending units over the Kerch peninsula to build up a counterattack.

View attachment 666512

Meanwhile our scientist have developed the 'Backhand Blow' doctrine. The tech tree in this scenario as a spot on duplication of the HOI3 tech tree. I'm blown away at how I'm actually playing HOI3 as a turn based game. Paradox dropped the ball badly by not going the TBS route. This scenario is perfect for a person who prefers not to twitch thumbs and fingers playing an RTS game.

View attachment 666513

I really love this, thanks for sharing. And thanks also for your praise. 'Masterpiece' is certainly a strong word! I think it has a long way to go to being that. But is perhaps a good start.

I've certainly had a lot of fun in various situations over the years playtesting this mod, starting as Germany in 1938 and conquering Europe, and trying to survive as the Spanish Republic in the ending stages of the Spanish Civil War was a lot of fun too. I'll try to get the 1938 start out as quickly as I can.

I do think the Ground doctrine techs could be swapped around somewhat, their positions are not set in stone.

IDK if you noticed, but some of those "Italian" units are actually controlled by the German player. Which is a cool feature of using the hoi3-style unit counters.

Meteor Man · Jul 7, 2023

So I've been thinking and would like some input from other civvers on some matters:

1.) Should I keep some national flags in the city graphics or not? They look nice, but look a ~little~ weird if the city is captured by another nation. Some examples below: Washington DC, NYC, Paris.

2.) Should I add slave labor camps to the game?

Why do I ask this? Because slave labor was historically integral to Nazi Germany's productive capacity, especially towards the end of the war. It was a huge part of not just German industry but the cause of the displacement of millions of people. Its absence from the mod feels disingenuous to the purported goal of creating a "historical" simulation.

On the other hand, Germany in the mod has plenty of productive capacity as it stands, they dont really need any more buffs in that regard. And, I did choose to leave out the Holocaust and other war crimes and the like.

RedMaul · Jul 7, 2023

Between this and the SW mod revival, my Civ3 install has quite a few years of life left in the tank. Thanks

RedMaul · Jul 7, 2023

Meteor Man said:
So I've been thinking and would like some input from other civvers on some matters:

1.) Should I keep some national flags in the city graphics or not? They look nice, but look a ~little~ weird if the city is captured by another nation. Some examples below: Washington DC, NYC, Paris.
View attachment 666542 View attachment 666547 View attachment 666544

2.) Should I add slave labor camps to the game?

Why do I ask this? Because slave labor was historically integral to Nazi Germany's productive capacity, especially towards the end of the war. It was a huge part of not just German industry but the cause of the displacement of millions of people. Its absence from the mod feels disingenuous to the purported goal of creating a "historical" simulation.

On the other hand, Germany in the mod has plenty of productive capacity as it stands, they dont really need any more buffs in that regard. And, I did choose to leave out the Holocaust and other war crimes and the like.

As regards slaves camps, I believe that unfotunately there was not only GE, but also USSR and maybe Italy as well as some Eastern European satellites that had recourse to forced labour in one form or another.

Meteor Man · Jul 7, 2023

RedMaul said:
As regards slaves camps, I believe that unfotunately there was not only GE, but also USSR and maybe Italy as well as some Eastern European satellites that had recourse to forced labour in one form or another.

Indeed, though this is of lesser concern at the moment.

Right now there is no forced labor at all in the mod. Even the Civ3 "forced labor" function is deferred in favor of rushing units & buildings via supply.

Moff Jerjerrod · Jul 7, 2023

Meteor Man said:
IDK if you noticed, but some of those "Italian" units are actually controlled by the German player. Which is a cool feature of using the hoi3-style unit counters.

Indeed I did notice. Not only a cool feature but you solved a challenge to make those non-German units be directed by the Wehrmacht as per historical events during the opening phases. I also noticed some Hungarian units under direct control of the Wehrmacht. Nice touch!

I like using just supply to rush units and buildings. I also like that P.O.W.s can be used as forced labor or adding them to a city population. If you did add slave labor camps how would they function?

As for the flags being part of city graphics I'm ok with leaving them as is. Kind of a reminder who the original owner was, thus making it a bit more clearer what cities should be re-captured.

I have a question though. Why is it there is no fog of war covering areas near the original Polish frontier that I can still see? I'll try to post a screenshot of what I mean at some point.

Meteor Man · Jul 7, 2023

Moff Jerjerrod said:
If you did add slave labor camps how would they function?

I was thinking as a production boost, available to 'Totalitarian' nations (Germany, USSR, Italy). Simple but how else to implement? :think:

Autoproduction of Zwangsarbeiter or something?

Moff Jerjerrod said:
I have a question though. Why is it there is no fog of war covering areas near the original Polish frontier that I can still see? I'll try to post a screenshot of what I mean at some point.

I know of what you speak. All I can say is, in this here code, there be dragons. :hide:

It is a strange bug that I do not know the source of. I suspect is has something to do with C3X, though.

Arexander · Jul 8, 2023

I noticed the same issue while attacking South America as the US, I believe it has something to do with recon, or at least some of the ships that have recon planes seem to leave uncovered areas at times, though it isn't consistent.

Moff Jerjerrod · Jul 8, 2023

Meteor Man said:
I was thinking as a production boost, available to 'Totalitarian' nations (Germany, USSR, Italy). Simple but how else to implement? Autoproduction of Zwangsarbeiter or something?

I like the idea of autoproduction vs. production boost. There are a lot of good buildings that all ideologies already have access to. Having an inefficient auto-produced laborer that needs 20 turns to build a road would seem to fit in with history. Just my thoughts though as I'm throwing out ideas.

Meteor Man · Jul 31, 2023

Update v1.5 has been released! :band:

Why download?

13 new units, including the advanced H class battleship, Me 163 Komet rocket fighter, He 162 Volksjager, Me 264 heavy bomber, and Amerika Rakete ICBM for Germany and the PBY Catalina and LSR Landing Ship Rocket for the USA.
9 new technologies, including Schnellbomber, Proximity Fuze, Intercontinetal Strike, Bernays Method, Fischer-Tropsch Process and more.
Plutonium and Uranium-235, both important in the construction of Atom Bombs, and both produced by special buildings.
Regional city graphics that don't change when captured.
Reordered tech tree.
Many fixes and minor additions to improve the 1941 start.

Full changelog here:

Spoiler :

New Technology trees (Germany's techs are pictured):

Regional city graphics:

Plans for the future: continuing to fix problems and update the 1941 start. But the next major priority is the 1939 start.

Also have plans for something big and spooky dropping in October

Download HERE or on the first page.

Have fun!

Moff Jerjerrod · Aug 1, 2023

Very nice! Thank you for all this additional content and improvements! Now I have to hurry up and finish my current campaign so that I can give this new version a try.

Oh what am I saying, I'll download the new version and have a parallel game going. :lol:

gugu84 · Aug 1, 2023

Haven't been here for over a year, and just discovered this true gem! awesome mod, been busy with it for a week now, haven't tried 1.5 yet. I love how German advance can stall out in Russia, managed to capture Moscow, now going for Stalingrad (have surrounded it for half a year now, but was busy with Moscow siege. Capturing Leningrad was quite easy, I thought Barbarossa will be a walk in the park, but as the front widened, I was slowing down with the advance. Rommel in Africa is advancing nicely, I captured Alexandria, now sieging Cairo. Is there any D-day event present in this mod? I'm keeping some forces in France just in case sh!t hits the fan. In the Atlantic subs are doing well, I managed to sink almost all cargo ships, recently discovered Liberty transports, was chasing them down to stealth attack them - only to realize those cannot be sniped anymore...

Wouldn't it be possible to give subs scout ability? Ofc. not with blitz ability cause it would make them op as hell, but it would be nice to scout once when there's only 1 movement point left.
I think BBs are quite cheap, I'd change it to 999 cost (or at least double) to make them harder to build and making them the crown of the navy.

All in all, superb mod, so happy to see this age-old game still getting some love.

Meteor Man · Aug 2, 2023

Glad you're having fun!

gugu84 said:
Is there any D-day event present in this mod?

Unfortunately, no. I'm toying with the idea of some kind of wonder the Allies can build upon landing in Europe. But I can't force the AI to make a naval invasion, they have to do that themselves.
To encourage this, transport ships have much more unit cargo space than usual. This gets around the AI's limitation on using only one transport at a time.

gugu84 said:
only to realize those cannot be sniped anymore

You mean Liberty Ships are not a Stealth Attack target for subs? Thanks for pointing that out, I'll fix that for the next version.

gugu84 said:
Wouldn't it be possible to give subs scout ability?

Well, right now the only naval units that get the Recon ability (which is what I assume you're talking about) are the ones that carry floatplanes. Most subs are too small to carry them. But there are a few that do, such as the French Surcouf class. I don't really have plans to expand this ability to more units. You're welcome to do it for your own gameplay, though! Relatively easy to go through the editor ticking the Recon ability.

gugu84 said:
think BBs are quite cheap, I'd change it to 999 cost (or at least double) to make them harder to build and making them the crown of the navy.

The problem with making Battleships any more expensive is that the AI won't build them. This is a known problem in Civ3. Trust me, I'd love to make capital ships very expensive and valuable (even too valuable to lose) but the AI just won't use them.

Edit: Though now that I think about it, this problem could perhaps be rectified by using the perfume settings in Flintlock's mod. I will look into this.

Thanks so much for your thoughts! I appreciate them a lot, It's great to see people enjoying this mod.

Moff Jerjerrod said:
Very nice! Thank you for all this additional content and improvements! Now I have to hurry up and finish my current campaign so that I can give this new version a try.

Oh what am I saying, I'll download the new version and have a parallel game going.

I've got so many abandoned games through the years while playtesting this mod. :cowboy:

I know the feeling!

gugu84 · Aug 3, 2023

Meteor Man said:
Glad you're having fun!

Unfortunately, no. I'm toying with the idea of some kind of wonder the Allies can build upon landing in Europe. But I can't force the AI to make a naval invasion, they have to do that themselves.
To encourage this, transport ships have much more unit cargo space than usual. This gets around the AI's limitation on using only one transport at a time.

I also have an idea how to make sure AI would do an invasion

Meteor Man said:
You mean Liberty Ships are not a Stealth Attack target for subs? Thanks for pointing that out, I'll fix that for the next version.

Yes, I had to kill the whole fleet to sink Liberty ships.
Btw I don't think it needs a fix, it means happy time for subs is over, convoys are much harder to attack - as it happened historically.

Meteor Man said:
Well, right now the only naval units that get the Recon ability (which is what I assume you're talking about) are the ones that carry floatplanes. Most subs are too small to carry them. But there are a few that do, such as the French Surcouf class. I don't really have plans to expand this ability to more units. You're welcome to do it for your own gameplay, though! Relatively easy to go through the editor ticking the Recon ability.

Thanks, maybe I'll "fix" it for myself, I did it in other mods too. I think it's a nice feature to represent u-boat ability to scout convoys from greater distance, like 6-7 tiles away.

Meteor Man said:
Thanks so much for your thoughts! I appreciate them a lot, It's great to see people enjoying this mod.

Yw, I have plenty of ideas, some good, some not

I see that in 1.5 capturing of enemy artillery was disabled. It's good, because I had a swarm of USSR artillery as Germany (especially Katyusa's were funny to see in german hands

) that could crack the hardest defense anywhere. But I have an idea, what if capturing these artillery results in spawning supplies? That means these captured materials were broke up for re-use for various purposes.

OVERLORD (1941 Start) - Second World War In Europe, North Africa, and the Soviet Union

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