Quick Answers / 'Newbie' Questions

Roland Johansen said:

This is related to a bug. Install Bhruic unofficial patch on top of the official BTS 3.13 patch to solve this issue.

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I thought it might be related to that... This leads to several other questions...

1) Is Firaxis ever going to formalize & release Bhruic's patch?
2) I sometimes play the GOTM. This requires the HOF mod - which I thought was supposed to include most (if not all) of Bhruic's patch.
2a) Is the GOTM compatable with Bhruic's patch?
2b) Maybe I should play with the HOF mod turned on all the time??

Thanks!!

Roland Johansen said:

You can't be friends with 2 people who hate each other. They will continuously ask you to chose between them and when you don't, then they'll start to hate you too.

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One other question/thought... Many times, the civs are on another continent. When they are on YOURS, it's a bit trickier. A hates B and asks you to terminate relations. You do. B is strong and now is mad at you, so they attack. Now, you are in trouble. Or you don't and now A is mad at you, so they attack.

If they are on another continent, they are MUCH less likely to sail across the sea to attack you, just because you stopped trading with them.

There are similar considerations for War Declarations. I don't see a lot of problems declaring war on someone far away (because another civ asked). Just be sure you are on the right side (the one more likely to win) - because you will suffer a permanant relations hit - either way.

BrantleyL1 said:

I thought it might be related to that... This leads to several other questions...

1) Is Firaxis ever going to formalize & release Bhruic's patch?
2) I sometimes play the GOTM. This requires the HOF mod - which I thought was supposed to include most (if not all) of Bhruic's patch.
2a) Is the GOTM compatable with Bhruic's patch?
2b) Maybe I should play with the HOF mod turned on all the time??

Thanks!!

Click to expand...

1) There are some rumours that a formal patch is on the way. But these rumours have been going on for a long time, so that's no guarantee. Normally, it doesn't take this long for a gaming company to produce a patch, so they are either working on it with a very small group or have been working on it in the past and it was cancelled by the publisher some time ago.

I have tried looking in my crystal ball, but as ever, it just looked like a plain crystal ball and it didn't help at all.

If Firaxis creates a patch, then it will be their patch and not Bhruics patch. They can't just blindly copy his work as it is their responsibility that the official patch works without any issues. A formal patch is always held against higher standards then the (of course great) work of a guy who fixes some issues in his spare time. Firaxis will of course look at Bhruics work, but they can't blindly copy it.

2) The last time I looked, the HOF-mod used an older version of Bhruics patch. I thought they didn't want to include his latest patch because some of the fixed items were considered to be in the grey area between a mod and a patch. When you're fixing issues of the game, then sooner or later, you'll enter this grey area where some players consider the change to be a patch and some consider it to be a mod.
But if you want to know the finer details of this issue, then you'll have to ask the creators of the HOF-mod. I haven't looked at this mod for a while.

2a) I don't think so. The main file which was changed by Bhruic is also changed by the HOF-mod and the changes are not the same so you can't simply combine the files of both mods into one big mod.
It could be that the changes to that file in the HOF-mod are just a subset of the changes which Bhruic made and in that case, you can just copy Bhruics version of that file over the HOF-mod version of that file. (that file = CvGameCoreDLL.dll) However, the HOF-mod was created to get official HOF-scores and thus games played with this newly created mod will not be admitted to the HOF.

2b) I use 2 shortcut links. One which starts the normal unmodded game and one which starts a game with slightly modded game rules and this mod includes Bhruics patch and the BUG (BTS Unaltered Gameplay) mod. If you also sometimes play the GOTM-games, then you could use a shortcut link for that mod. This makes it very easy to switch between the standard game and mods.

BrantleyL1 said:

One other question/thought... Many times, the civs are on another continent. When they are on YOURS, it's a bit trickier. A hates B and asks you to terminate relations. You do. B is strong and now is mad at you, so they attack. Now, you are in trouble. Or you don't and now A is mad at you, so they attack.

If they are on another continent, they are MUCH less likely to sail across the sea to attack you, just because you stopped trading with them.

There are similar considerations for War Declarations. I don't see a lot of problems declaring war on someone far away (because another civ asked). Just be sure you are on the right side (the one more likely to win) - because you will suffer a permanant relations hit - either way.

Click to expand...

You are right that the geographical position of another civilisation should influence your diplomacy. A distant civilisation is less likely to be a military threat and you're also less likely to want to conquer that distant civilisation.

By the way, the 'You refused to help us during war time' diplomatic modifier is not permanent although it can take a very long time to get rid of it. I don't know the details (I'd have to look into the CIV4LeaderHeadInfos.xml file for the values), but it's something like the diplomatic modifier will remain for a random number of turns between 1 and 100. The length is probably also dependant on the opposing leader. Some leaders are more likely to forgive you in this situation than others.

Ok, I got a game going as the Native Americans, and I'm really liking it, and I wanted to find a mod that would allow me to make the game interesting after the modern era. So I found the nextwar mod. Is there any way to apply this mod to a game in progress? does nextwar change anything in the early or middle game?

pyritefoolsgold said:

Ok, I got a game going as the Native Americans, and I'm really liking it, and I wanted to find a mod that would allow me to make the game interesting after the modern era. So I found the nextwar mod. Is there any way to apply this mod to a game in progress? does nextwar change anything in the early or middle game?

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Unfortunately I believe you'll need to start a new game with the mod to be able to experience the features that the mod offers. As far as I know you can't apply a mod to a game in progress, since the mod would quite often conflict with the unmodded game.

My Great Engineer is only contributing 740 hammers toward the 1500 hammer cost of the Statue of Liberty. I thought a Great Engineer was supposed to fully complete whatever is being built.

For some wonders, like Statue of Liberty and the Pentagon, it only contributes part of the cost, yeah.

Ginger_Ale said:

For some wonders, like Statue of Liberty and the Pentagon, it only contributes part of the cost, yeah.

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Is it just those two, or all the expensive Wonders (i.e., Space Elevator, Internet, Three Gorges Dam, Apollo Program, Eiffel Tower, and Manhattan Project)? If it's only those two wonders that Great Engineers can't fully build, I'll save my Great Engineer until later, but if it's the same with all the expensive wonders, I may as well use my Great Engineer now.

a great engineer can only participate for a given number of hammers towards a wonder. Same as lighbulbing and beakers for every GP: you can't usually lightbulb all education with a scientist.

For the engineer, there a base (something like 500 hammers) and a bonus, dependant on population. The number of beakers of lightbulbing depends on whole population, but I'm not sure for the engineer building, if it depends on whole population of just the city's population. So basically, they can't complete late-game wonders by themselves.

Oh, and you can't use an engineer for manhattan project.

JujuLautre said:

a great engineer can only participate for a given number of hammers towards a wonder. Same as lighbulbing and beakers for every GP: you can't usually lightbulb all education with a scientist.

For the engineer, there a base (something like 500 hammers) and a bonus, dependant on population. The number of beakers of lightbulbing depends on whole population, but I'm not sure for the engineer building, if it depends on whole population of just the city's population. So basically, they can't complete late-game wonders by themselves.

Oh, and you can't use an engineer for manhattan project.

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Or The internet, or Apollo Program, or anything that's not obviously a building.

JujuLautre said:

a great engineer can only participate for a given number of hammers towards a wonder. Same as lighbulbing and beakers for every GP: you can't usually lightbulb all education with a scientist.

For the engineer, there a base (something like 500 hammers) and a bonus, dependant on population. The number of beakers of lightbulbing depends on whole population, but I'm not sure for the engineer building, if it depends on whole population of just the city's population. So basically, they can't complete late-game wonders by themselves.

Oh, and you can't use an engineer for manhattan project.

Click to expand...

The complete formula (for a normal game speed) is:

Maximum Great Engineer hammers = Base hammers + Population hammers
Base hammers = 500
Population hammers = 20 per population point in the city

Note that population points only count in the city you are rushing the wonder in.

So for instance, if you rush a wonder in a city with 8 population, the Great Engineer will contribute a maximum 500 + 20*8 = 660 hammers. If the wonder costs less than 660 hammers (eg the Pyramids = 400 hammers), you get it built in 1 turn and any "extra" hammers disappear (eg the 260 "remaining" hammers from the Great Engineer are lost). If the wonder costs more than 660 hammers, then you get exactly 660 hammers towards the completion of the wonder.

You can see that it is most efficient to use Great Engineers for expensive wonders in large cities. For instance, a population 20 city will recieve 500 + 20*20 = 900 hammers towards the completion of an expensive wonder (like the Statue of Liberty at 1500 hammers), whereas a population 2 city will recieve only 500 + 20*2 = 540 hammers towards the exact same wonder.

Note that the formula scales with game speed, as do the wonder costs. I believe the values are as follows:

Epic:
Base hammers = 750
Population hammers = 30 per population point in the city

Quick:
Base hammers = 250
Population hammers = 10 per population point in the city

Marathon:
Base hammers = 1500
Population hammers = 60 per population point in the city

Of course, the wonder costs are also scaled with game speed, so Great Engineers do not get any more useful in terms of percentage of hammers contributed. For instance, rushing the Statue of Liberty on a marathon game speed in a population 20 city would yield 1500 + 60*20 = 2700 hammers, but the cost of the Statue of Liberty on a marathon game speed is 4500 hammers. So the percentage of hammers which are contributed toward the wonder remains the same between game speeds. (See for yourself: in the earlier example for normal game speed, the Great Engineer provided 900/1500 hammers for the Statue of Liberty in a population 20 city, or 60% of the total hammers for the wonder. For the marathon example, he provides 2700/4500 or 60% of the total hammers for the wonder again.)

I hope that helps to clarify the situation.

Lord Parkin said:

The complete formula (for a normal game speed) is:

...

Quick:
Base hammers = 250
Population hammers = 10 per population point in the city

...

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That was such a thorough and complete post Lord Parkin, that it's almost a shame to have to correct a minor detail.
As far as I know, for most game elements the quick speed multiplier is 0.67 (or the divisor is 1.5). So I guess the values for quick speed are
Base hammer = 335
Population hammers = 13 per population point in the city

I might be off a little as I'm not 100% sure about the rounding the game uses, but usually it rounds things down.

But I guess we both never play at that game speed. I just know the multipliers from the Handicap xml-file.

A kind of stupid question, but anyway...

A tile that is not within any city's fat cross does not get worked on, I assume. So a tile that has, let's say only two food and one commerce on it (no other ressource such as gems, cows, or anything else), does not contribute any of this to any city, correct? So is it ultimately a waste to build a cottage/farm there, because nothing is contributed?

And what do you do on those tiles? do you not improve it at all or maybe only roads? is there something else I should/can build on it?

thanks in advance.

cheers
-wannabewarlord

wannabewarlord said:

A kind of stupid question, but anyway...

A tile that is not within any city's fat cross does not get worked on, I assume. So a tile that has, let's say only two food and one commerce on it (no other ressource such as gems, cows, or anything else), does not contribute any of this to any city, correct? So is it ultimately a waste to build a cottage/farm there, because nothing is contributed?

And what do you do on those tiles? do you not improve it at all or maybe only roads? is there something else I should/can build on it?

thanks in advance.

cheers
-wannabewarlord

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If there is a resource there the tile still needs to be improved in order for your civilization to receive the benefits and/or to trade that said resource.

I have a question of my own: is there any way I can see what foreign cities have a religion that i've founded? I want to build the AP without any other civs getting the benefits.

If the AI has a state religion it will usually be highlighted with the relevant symbol next to its name. Therefore choose a religion that no-one else has, hate out the AP for it and be the only member!...and have fun clicking your own name every few turns to be leader and without the power, say, to reassign cities, stop wars, stop people trading with your enemies etc. The benefits of having multiple members outweigh the benefits of just you having access to the extra production bonuses which can be gained from elsewhere, particularly with the Moai Statues in a high production coastal city or other useful improvements.

Religion goes via commerce, and from what I can see you probably need to stop that via Mercantilism; but you could build the AP after changing to a religion that you know no-one else has as their state religion. You cannot really guarantee the other civilisations will not convert to gain the advantages of the AP, though, and Mercantilism comes at a stage when most religions have spread through trade as a matter of course.

I personally find it hard to keep other civs tied into my state religion, but even if they convert they still have voting rights if the religion is present in their cities. The benefits are gained by everyone with it as their state religion; they seem actually to be pretty reluctant to stay in the AP religion or convert to it as a rule than the other way round. Personally so long as I control the wonders which give actual benefits to state religions (Sistine Chapel, Spiral Minaret, Angkor Wat, University of Sankore, and so on) I am happy for the AP religion be more widely respected and present in a lot of civs as it gives me espionage points and other benefits/control over them.

However the point of the AP is to get everyone to share the same religion and vote you religious leader. A diplo win is pretty easy and accounts for about half of the games I play on Chieftain difficulty with a decent score.

wannabewarlord said:

A kind of stupid question, but anyway...

A tile that is not within any city's fat cross does not get worked on, I assume. So a tile that has, let's say only two food and one commerce on it (no other ressource such as gems, cows, or anything else), does not contribute any of this to any city, correct? So is it ultimately a waste to build a cottage/farm there, because nothing is contributed?

And what do you do on those tiles? do you not improve it at all or maybe only roads? is there something else I should/can build on it?

thanks in advance.

cheers
-wannabewarlord

Click to expand...

You should avoid having tiles that are outside the fat cross of all of your cities. These tiles are largely wasted.

Gwynnja said:

I have a question of my own: is there any way I can see what foreign cities have a religion that i've founded? I want to build the AP without any other civs getting the benefits.

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If a religion is present in a city, then the symbol representing that religion will be shown next to the city name on the main map. If you zoom out far, then you can also use the various overlays and one of the overlays shows the religions present around the world.

I'm playing prince in bts as kublai (if that matters) and am currently in the renaissance era (i think anyway, last two techs were education and liberalism). I noticed that all of my tiles that had at least 1 hammer on the base terrain now have 2 hammers (even water tiles in my moai city). I had never noticed this before but then again this is one of my first few games actually building improvements myself (not automated) so i'm paying a lot more attention to the tiles.

When does this change happen? Are there any similar changes to tiles during the game that aren't tech/civic changes?

Thanks

kyleroden said:

I'm playing prince in bts as kublai (if that matters) and am currently in the renaissance era (i think anyway, last two techs were education and liberalism). I noticed that all of my tiles that had at least 1 hammer on the base terrain now have 2 hammers (even water tiles in my moai city). I had never noticed this before but then again this is one of my first few games actually building improvements myself (not automated) so i'm paying a lot more attention to the tiles.

When does this change happen? Are there any similar changes to tiles during the game that aren't tech/civic changes?

Thanks

Click to expand...

You've used a great person to start a golden age. This results in an extra hammer (and commerce) in every tile that already has a hammer (commerce) output of at least 1. This bonus is only temporary. You can see the number of turns left in the upper right corner of the main screen.

Welcome to civfanatics!

Roland Johansen said:

You've used a great person to start a golden age. This results in an extra hammer (and commerce) in every tile that already has a hammer (commerce) output of at least 1. This bonus is only temporary. You can see the number of turns left in the upper right corner of the main screen.

Welcome to civfanatics!

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Either that, or you built the Taj Mahal. Either way, you've got a Golden Age going on.

And welcome!

yeah i feel pretty silly now.. thanks for the help and the welcome.. all the info on this site has really improved my enjoyment of the game

What do the beakers and/or hammers to the left of the religious icons on a city bar indicate?