Civ5 - shipping with Steamworks * plus Digital Deluxe Edition

2. What personally identifiable information does Valve collect with Steam? The only information players are required to provide is a valid email address and a password, and to verify they are older than 13 years of age. All other information is optional, and a player’s profile can be set to private. Valve does track the time spent playing a game, per account, but does not collect information about what other processes are running concurrently on the computer.
From wiki :
Statistics collection
Steam collects and reports anonymous metrics of its usage, stability, and performance.With the exception of Valve's hardware survey, most collection occurs without notifying the user or offering an opt-out. Some of these metrics are available publicly, such as what games are being played or statistics on player progress in certain games.Valve has also used information from these statistics to justify implementing new features in Steam, such as the addition of a defragmentation option for game caches.

Quote from another forum :
"Searching for firefox in steamUI.dll leads to a stuff that indicates that they're detecting if stuff is installed and they're looking for :"
- Firefox
- Open Office
- Windows firewall
- Zone alarm

From wiki again :
Hardware promotions
Steam keeps a record of the hardware in the computer it is running on for various purposes, one of which is enabling hardware manufacturers to run after-sale promotions directly to their customers. Both AMD's ATi and nVidia use this feature: owners of ATi's Radeon video cards receive Half-Life 2: Lost Coast and Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, as well as a discount on Half-Life 2,while owners of nVidia's GeForce video cards receive Half-Life 2: Deathmatch, Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, Portal: First Slice (a demo of Portal, now available to all Steam users for free) and Peggle Extreme (now available to all Steam users for free).

 
I just wish community features were not locked into the store-front as well.

I prefer platform neutral community infrastructures, that don't direct me to buy from one store or another, I get to keep that choice. That's why the drm that locked itunes files to ipod was taken down, right?

Why must Steamworks make it mandatory I buy it from Steam store? Why not work on a solution, like Stardock, where multiplayer/community features are not locked to a specific distribution channel? EA do this already with their games, I bought Dragon Age from one place and Awakenings from another and it didn't matter because their EA network is neutral.
 
It doesn't really, it annoys me that people think that Steam is some horrible monster lurking in their computer, it annoys me that people think that Valve is out to get them, and it annoys me that people think downloading a harmless 3rd party is somehow so horrible and life ruining that it will keep them from playing a game they want.

The truth can hurt, i know.

Come on now, stop saying 'forced' as if this is anything. Yes, you have to download steam, but making 'forced' your word as if this is some horrible torture is insane.

It is.

Milan is asking why steam is an integral part of the game and not optional. Your answer is the circular 'it's integral because it's integral'.

:goodjob:
 
Way to (intentionally?) fail to differentiate between control and persuasion. :crazyeye:

My reference here is not about control or persuasion.
It is financial.
Why does Firaxis need 2k and Steam standing between them and their customers?
We now have two middle-men (distributors) with their fingers in the pie.
This will not lead to better games or less milking of the public.
 
...
Oh, and I think people have gotten just a little silly in their paranoia about Steam/digital distribution in general. Unless you have a 'special' case (like a gamer with no internet connection) then it is 'just better' in a whole lot of ways.

People have learned to buy music digitally. Books too, movies, all sorts of media. After a while the lack of a 'box' isn't a bug... it's a feature. I can't even remember the last time I read a game manual that wasn't a pdf... where I couldn't search, rapidly change pages or copy/paste info I liked to a friend.

Candy-coated crap only tastes good until the candy-coating melts away.

Lack of a 'box' wasn't a feature for me.
Personal Experience

My paranoia would be silly ...
... if corporate fascism and financial rape weren't real.
(no, I'm not referring to my iTunes problem)

note:
fascism = oppressive control
rape = bilking the consumer
 
Candy-coated crap only tastes good until the candy-coating melts away.

Lack of a 'box' wasn't a feature for me.
Personal Experience

My paranoia would be silly ...
... if corporate fascism and financial rape weren't real.
(no, I'm not referring to my iTunes problem)

note:
fascism = oppressive control
rape = bilking the consumer

Stop using fascism and rape to compare to your anger over a pretend computer game, it's really messed up.
 
Well, I used the money I was saving for Civ 5 to support other games. I upgraded Elemental to the Limited Edition, got the Tropico 3 expansion and plan to get Fallout: New Vegas. I can keep playing Civ 4 with mods until Civ 6 comes out and hopefully they will have come to their senses by then and not force people (the majority by the way) that will play single player to install and have Steam running all the time.

Wow, money to 3 games all because Civ 5 will use Steam.

Gotta love it.
 
Bolding words like rapist and fascist wont make your post true, sorry. You can go ahead and scare people away, but Valve is a company that clearly cares about their customers (hell, they're giving away a very popular game for FREE right now, that doesn't spell greedy corporation to me).

1) I use bold as a personal style for emphasis.
Whereas I choose my words carefully,
... I've never been a good comunicator.
People often read their own emotions into text.

2) Realities of modern corporate America ...
... don't rely on any posts from me.
... You can read about them in any newspaper.

3) I don't want people scared, I want them thinking.
Fear gets in the way of thinking.

4) 'Carrot on a stick' does not imply 'clearly cares' to me.
(-or- if you prefer, 'baiting the trap')

5) I have freely posted my personal experiences and concerns for the future.
That is the nature of discussion.
I don't believe I have posted anything 'untrue' (ie agree to disagree).

note:
A nearly bold free post! (Doh!)
 
Shotgunbadger said:
Stop using fascism and rape ..., it's really messed up.

Your concern is noted.

However:
I have rechecked dictionaries, newspapers, and congressional testimony.
These words are being used correctly.

Therefore:
I will NOT candy-coat crap to appease your palate.
You will have to swallow it 'as is'.
 
1) I use bold as a personal style for emphasis.
Whereas I choose my words carefully,
... I've never been a good comunicator.
People often read their own emotions into text.

2) Realities of modern corporate America ...
... don't rely on any posts from me.
... You can read about them in any newspaper.

3) I don't want people scared, I want them thinking.
Fear gets in the way of thinking.

4) 'Carrot on a stick' does not imply 'clearly cares' to me.
(-or- if you prefer, 'baiting the trap')

5) I have freely posted my personal experiences and concerns for the future.
That is the nature of discussion.
I don't believe I have posted anything 'untrue' (ie agree to disagree).

note:
A nearly bold free post! (Doh!)

u mad
 
Your concern is noted.

However:
I have rechecked dictionaries, newspapers, and congressional testimony.
These words are being used correctly.

Therefore:
I will NOT candy-coat crap to appease your palate.
You will have to swallow it 'as is'.

You know, most everyone else is at least willing to discuss their problems and all, you're just forcing your insanity on us.

You are an intellectual rapist.
 
hey guys, guys, i heard that it's impossible for plate tectonics to explain how all that oil got under alaska

it's in CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY, so it must be true!
 
@ 2K Elizabeth

Hello Elizabeth,

thanks for the info and the patience to still answer some of the questions that arise here.

Two Valve representatives were working with Firaxis in their offices this week and the devs took some time to chat with them about your concerns, and I have three points to make that I think will help a lot of you out.

2. What personally identifiable information does Valve collect with Steam? The only information players are required to provide is a valid email address and a password, and to verify they are older than 13 years of age. All other information is optional, and a player’s profile can be set to private. Valve does track the time spent playing a game, per account, but does not collect information about what other processes are running concurrently on the computer.

Could You please ask them, if there is a chance that Valve will clarify such things in his privacy policy in front of the release. Means list in detail which data can be collected from the customer without his agreement, which data will only be collected with opt in of the customer and which data Valve will never collect. Also what can be done with the data without special user permission and only with (casewise) given user permission (eg hardware/software data in case of a crash will only be given to the developer of the game with permission, but you can also opt in that valve can use the data for an steam intern database)

Also means a privat profil, privat in regard to other valve users or also privat in regard to valve? How privat is privat? ;)

As last point considering the privacy policy and out of curiosity, could You please post Your opinion (and just in case somebody else feels appointed, i really mean only her) about the privacy policy and european rights. It seems - but i´m not sure - that it can be problematic to transfer data from the EU to the USA without having the firm participating in the EU-USA Safe Harbor process. Unlike to one of the privacy policy of one of your competitors i found no indication in the Valve privacy policy that Valve joined this process. Did i missed this information or is Safe Harbor no precondition for a legal data transfer if the purchase of the game happens in the EU. [i know that You can´t give a binding answer]

3. How often do I have to connect with Steam after the activation? Never again, if you choose to play in offline mode. The Steam client will still start, but will not communicate with the servers. A connection is required to activate the game and an update must be applied at that time, but after the initial activation, a player never again has to connect their computer to the Internet. However, if not connected, the players will not be able to receive updates, save to the cloud, play multiplayer, earn achievements, or receive free content.

Only as clarification: I will not be able to patch the game without running steam in the online mode for patching (afterwards i can go back to the offline mode) - means there will be no stand alone patches?

A last question, will there be a special protection of vested rights (no idea if this is the correct phrase, also only considering single player and patching) or (partially) back pay guarantee in the 2K Eula of the game for the case that there will be a change in the steam subscriber agreement, which the purchaser can´t accept and therefore must terminate his/her Steam account? Of course such a protection or guarantee would need some limitation like that the accout is really terminated (or better all accounts of this user).

[Following the steam supportes opinion about the probability of such a case, it should be not too risky to give such a guarantee, even if 1 of 100 purchasers (for some this would be already a ridiculous high percentage) would take this option, it would only be 0.4 - 0.5 $ / € per game copy - or a bit more if a insurance contract is concluded). But certainly such a protection or guarentee would appease others.]

Thanks in advance for the answers

best regards,
T_C
 
Your concern is noted.

However:
I have rechecked dictionaries, newspapers, and congressional testimony.
These words are being used correctly.

Therefore:
I will NOT candy-coat crap to appease your palate.
You will have to swallow it 'as is'.
Moderator Action: But I don't. You may have checked your dictionaries etc., but not our rules and guidelines. Civility is important to the forum and your use of such words is needlessly inflammatory without any contribution to the discussion.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Ultimately- it's going to be up to the individuals here to decide if instant gratification > the long-term side effects of having Civ locked up in a platform.

I do think the actions taken by 2K make me believe that there is serious pressure on Firaxis from up above, and that could easily affect the quality of their future products.

This is common in many non-Valve, Steamworks-exclusive games such as MW2 and TW games.
Those developers were quality in the past, but due to publisher pressure, their games declined in quality.

It's possible Civ 5 will reverse this trend, but reviews are untrustable (payola)- so who knows until a few weeks after the game comes out?
 
hey guys, guys, i heard that it's impossible for plate tectonics to explain how all that oil got under alaska

it's in CONGRESSIONAL TESTIMONY, so it must be true!

Assuming this was aimed at me:
Nowhere have I stated congressional testimony proves anything.
I was accused of misusing certain terminology.
I rechecked my sources for current usage and I am not in error.
If you read into my comments,
... something I did not intend,
... then those thoughts are yours,
... not mine.
I am only guilty of poor communication.
 
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