Catholics sue Obama over health law

Samson · May 28, 2012

Best link I could find (BBC)

Fox news take on story (more about why reporting is not more extensive)

This week 43 Catholic institutions, including the Archdioceses of New York and Washington DC as well as Notre Dame University, sued the Obama administration over its mandate requiring employers to provide contraception in their health insurance plans.
...
The mandate - due to come into force on 1 August - requires employers to cover reproductive services, including contraception.

The Catholic Church teaches that artificial contraception is wrong and opponents of this mandate further argue that it covers abortion-inducing drugs. Supporters, including many lay Catholics, dispute this.

The church itself is exempted from the rule, but many Catholic institutions, including hospitals, schools and charities, are not automatically exempted and must apply for one.

My thoughts are that this is incredible. In a country reliant on employer provided health care, how can some institutions get away with not providing it? I assume they employ non-catholics, and they accept not all catholics obey every rule all the time? I cannot believe that the church its self has an opt out, and that given that they have an opt out are making more waves about the issue. Even more so why they are not getting struck down from all sides about the illogicality of the exceptions they want.

Do other religions get this sort of treatment? Can scientologists exclude cover for chemical psychiatry and pain relief in childbirth? Can Jehovahs witnesses exclude cover for blood transfusions?

And then we could get to non-religious objections. If I was against animal testing (something some people feel with a strength that is similar in magnitude to religious individuals), could I exclude all treatments based on this to my employees (basicly all modern medicine). It would certainly save me money (if I had employees anyway).

Save_Ferris · May 28, 2012

What's so bad about this? If you want contraception, why are you using a Catholic employer?

JollyRoger · May 28, 2012

Damned trial lawyers - filing yet another frivolous lawsuit.

Samson · May 28, 2012

Save_Ferris said:
What's so bad about this? If you want contraception, why are you using a Catholic employer?

Because if you allow employers to pick and choose what health care they provide then it invalidates the whole point of universal health insurance.

Actually I think that this is not something best left to the employer, it should be something provided by the state (as it is in the UK). However if it is going to be mandated that all employers should provide this, then all employers should provide this. If it becomes an established fact that employers can opt out of requirements to provide health care dependant of moral beliefs then the legal requirement will be worthless.

Leoreth · May 28, 2012

Save_Ferris said:
What's so bad about this? If you want contraception, why are you using a Catholic employer?

You usually don't pick your employer because he is Catholic.

And health care standards should apply equally to all employers to avoid exactly this kind of situation where it becomes even an issue.

IdiotsOpposite · May 28, 2012

Welcome to America.

But yeah, if this passes, I don't see why if I'm a Scientologist employer, I can't say that psychiatry is against my religion. It's no different after all.

JollyRoger · May 28, 2012

It is interesting to see a search for activist judges to overturn the will of the people as expressed through the decisions of elected representatives. I can understand the policy arguments, but not why such policy should be decided by some unelected person in a robe.

Dreadnought · May 28, 2012

Good for them.

Leoreth · May 28, 2012

Dreadnought said:
Good for them.

Less so for society and secularism.

Save_Ferris · May 28, 2012

Samson said:
Because if you allow employers to pick and choose what health care they provide then it invalidates the whole point of universal health insurance.

Actually I think that this is not something best left to the employer, it should be something provided by the state (as it is in the UK). However if it is going to be mandated that all employers should provide this, then all employers should provide this. If it becomes an established fact that employers can opt out of requirements to provide health care dependant of moral beliefs then the legal requirement will be worthless.

I understand, but some Catholics are saying that providing contraception, which in their mind is a sin, is basically the government forcing them to sin.

JollyRoger · May 28, 2012

Save_Ferris said:
I understand, but some Catholics are saying that providing contraception, which in their mind is a sin, is basically the government forcing them to sin.

They are not forced to sin. They can decide to get out of the businesses which would require them to follow the government regulation. For core church functions, they are exempt.

GhostWriter16 · May 28, 2012

Dreadnought said:
Good for them.

I know you're Catholic, but as a Protestant I completely agree with you :goodjob:

Let freedom of religion reign supreme.

madviking · May 28, 2012

GhostWriter16 said:
I know you're Catholic, but as a Protestant I completely agree with you

Let freedom of religion reign supreme.

I'm still puzzled how this interferes with any religious freedom. Religions can't do everything you know.

GhostWriter16 · May 28, 2012

Do other religions get this sort of treatment? Can scientologists exclude cover for chemical psychiatry and pain relief in childbirth? Can Jehovahs witnesses exclude cover for blood transfusions?

Both of the above things actually have to do with health. Contraception doesn't necessarily. Granted, if you're going to live a certain lifestyle maybe it does, but I think "Reproductive Health" is a massive, MASSIVE stretch.

GhostWriter16 · May 28, 2012

@Madviking- Doesn't change the fact that forcing the Catholic Church to provide a non-health service as part of their healthcare package is fundamentally discriminatory.

madviking · May 28, 2012

GhostWriter16 said:
@Madviking- Doesn't change the fact that forcing the Catholic Church to provide a non-health service as part of their healthcare package is fundamentally discriminatory.

How is contraception a "non-health" issue?

GhostWriter16 · May 28, 2012

Because its not necessary for health?

Don't get me wrong, I don't personally have a problem with all forms of contraception, but I wouldn't compare it to, say, blood transfusions. One is essential to your health and the other is not. In fact, apparently NFP can actually be just as effective as artificial contraception, if not more so.

ParkCungHee · May 28, 2012

Samson said:
My thoughts are that this is incredible. In a country reliant on employer provided health care, how can some institutions get away with not providing it?

And there's the far more serious issue.

Neonanocyborgasm · May 28, 2012

This is a recent tactic by the right wing to limit certain regulatory acts, such as this. They just cite infringement of religious freedom, as if playing the religion card grants them immunity from certain laws and regulations.

madviking · May 28, 2012

GhostWriter16 said:
Because its not necessary for health?

Don't get me wrong, I don't personally have a problem with all forms of contraception, but I wouldn't compare it to, say, blood transfusions. One is essential to your health and the other is not. In fact, apparently NFP can actually be just as effective as artificial contraception, if not more so.

I don't think you can comment on necessity of the pill since you're not a woman.

Regardless, necessity doesn't define what 'health' means. A physical, which is completely unnecessary, is definitely a health related item.

For any constitutional rights to be trampled upon, I think it has to be a very direct, concrete effect. Forcing churches to cover the pill doesn't qualify for this since it does not affect the practice of the religion at all. Just affects what they feel is right/wrong, which is not sufficient to warrant an exemption.

Catholics sue Obama over health law

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