The Great DoC UHV v 1.11 challenge

It's easy. You need to make your population in your core area as large as you can, it can make your expansion stability well. And win combats as many as you can, it's benefit to your military stability. So it's easy to make your stability solid.

By the way, the link of my Germany victory seems disappeared in #1...

Mongolia, Viceroy, Marathon, 600 AD start, 1351 AD, score: 7202

This was quite fun. Basically, attack China, don't bother capitulating them and try to thin out their cities a bit to raze some. I shouldn't have peace vassalised Tibet but oh well. Then you whip some Keshiks out, send some up to Russia and some down to India. It's relatively easy if you try to conserve your troops and savescum so that you don't lose many troops (I find that it basically iterates after every random action, but it's sort of like it sets up a random number and then if your percentage is below that number it won't succeed so if you do a likely action you might find that your unlikely action if you do it afterwards succeeds). Also it helped to rush to drama (taking the Taoist and Confucian shrine helps (which is why it's vital to do this on a 600 AD start, also waiting 4000 years on marathon, marathon is also essential, would take an age). With this I could whack up the culture rate so that my Russian cities would have border expansion as soon as possible. Really I should have done this as soon as possible but oh well, this could be done better easily.

Spain, Viceroy, Marathon, 600 AD start, 1541 AD virtual, score: 5274

That was much more annoying. Two things really annoyed me in the game.

The tactic I adopted at first was to not let any other civilisations exist in Europe so no one could go protestant. However, after taking Cordoba as soon as I could and taking France not soon after (I took Bordeaux and Marseille as soon as possible and signed a peace treaty not soon afterwards to regroup my troops). I also took over England around the year 1200.

The first thing I found annoying was that I researched optics as soon as possible and then sent a caravel over before the Aztecs or Incas had spawned and I didn't get an American conqueror event. I reloaded and waited about a bit and sent the caravel back after they had spawned and a few turns after so I could declare war, still no conqueror event. Anyway, I just researched Astronomy and sent some conquistadors and knights to take over their cities. I also sent over some settlers and most of my gold and silver came from North America. One came from south America and one from the gold next to Manilla (which I got after building the trading company). Afterwards I built up a bit of an empire in North America but after I got the gold and silver requirement I mostly liberated it because it was actually slowing down my tech rate.

The second thing I found annoying was the protestantism issue. I attained a virtual victory straight after getting the ten gold and silver, however this was because protestantism hadn't been founded by anyone yet (I had deliberately not researched the printing press). I was going to invade HRE but I realised there was a (in theory) much simpler way to do this. I switched to Secularism and then discovered the printing press, this meant that I did not found protestantism. As HRE were about to discover the printing press I gave them Education, Philosophy and Liberalism and asked them to switch to secularism as well so that they wouldn't found protestantism either. I did this for Portugal as well. The problem was that this involved a lot of trial and error.

In one situation I declared war on Portugal by mistake, but managed to take the two European parts of Portugal and then the next turn Protestantism was founded in one of their cities in Brazil, which hadn't even been settled before I took their places, very annoying. Then came the problem of the Netherlands. Protestantism still hadn't been founded up to their spawn so they started Catholic (actually one time as soon as the Netherlands popped up Islam went there...) but they would never accept my liberalism or they couldn't switch to Secularism because they had spawned so recently. I discovered the solution, on the first turn they spawn you need to ask them to switch to Pantheon which means a few turns before that you switch to it yourself (this allowed me to build the floating gardens in Marseille). This means that you can give them the printing press and they won't found protestantism. It also worked for the other ostensibly Catholic civs.

There was a final problem, Kongo. For some reason around 1679 they found protestantism even though they had just discovered paper. I don't know what it was that caused it but after spying on them and then giving them Manilla (to cause them instability) and fiddling about they didn't discover it. They wouldn't accept Pantheon or Secularism because it was against everything they stood for, or whatever it is they say. I also sent out some catholic missionaries to the Mughals but other than that not much prostelytising was done. Super Mongolia were still around and they will never ever open borders with you so I couldn't send anyone over there, neither would any of the Islamic civs open borders with me.

Towards the end of the Spain game it was lagging hard. I tried to do a Russian UHV, I am probably on course to do it but I put it on marathon foolishly so it'll take ages to go between turns and I can't really be bothered. I might try it on a quicker speed. Also in between these and the last ones I tried to do Ethiopia and Mali but I have absolutely no idea how to do either. For Ethiopia, discovering Theology first seems really difficult, for Mali I don't know how to get all the gold and build the university of Sankore in time.

You need to wait 10 turns (I think) after the Aztec spawn to get the conquerors.

soul-breathing said:

By the way, the link of my Germany victory seems disappeared in #1...

Click to expand...

Oops! It looks like I cut-pasted it instead of copy-pasting. I will readd it later.

@Bechamel:
I recently played Spain (normal speed though)

and I actually founded Protestantism, then fought the other civs that adopted it. The requirement is not to allow no European City with Protestantism, but simply no civ that has Protestantism as its state religion.

So you simply fight them untill they vasallize or use spies to revert them to Catholicism. No need to switch your civics like that

Ethiopia and Mali are pretty hard. with Ethiopia you need to build one "stele" as soon as possible and set a priest to work on it, you get a great prophet, this won't be enough but with the prophet and ~10-15 turns of research you get theology. In my last game I founded Catholicism by ~200 AD (Jerusalem should not be independent or barbarian!).
With Mali you need a Great Merchant and once you have paper you slow down your tech and build wealth. Here I found the greatest problems were to pop the specified Great Persons in time. If you just once get unlucky at a 95/5-chance or something, you can start over :/

I understand what the UHV was asking, but the reason I didn't allow protestantism to found at all was that when it did it always took a large portion of the Catholic population with it (my problem was the 40% not the no European protestant civ part). This was especially a problem because I was maybe only a few decades away from the deadline. I had by this time also let all my old colonies become independent and when protestantism was ever founded many would go protestant and I couldn't send my missionaries out there anyway. Basically, the reason I did what I did was because I thought it would be easier, and probably was in the long term.

Thanks for the Mali and Ethiopia tips. I thought you might have to build a steele but I couldn't get it to work before. I might try again.

Bechamel said:

I understand what the UHV was asking, but the reason I didn't allow protestantism to found at all was that when it did it always took a large portion of the Catholic population with it (my problem was the 40% not the no European protestant civ part).

Click to expand...

The solution is to build the great Spanish empire in both Americas and spread catholicism after protestantism is found. If you use theocracy and have really big cities, then catholicism will be at about 30-35% after reformation.

Thank you! The OP is updated to post #102 (and the missing entry is readded).

I would write it in a different thread, because I just want to give feedback. But, since the score is bigger I decided to write it hear.

Civilization: Mongols
Score: 7284 (normalised), 1002 (original)
Winning date: 1450AD
Difficulty: Viceroy
Gamespeed: Normal
Version: SVN 594
Scenario: 600AD

Differences:

The SVN version gameplay has major differences from previous versions. The most important are:
*The new stability system: It is based on a core population vs historical and non core population.
*The new tech cost system: It is based on total population and not in number of cities.
*The new mongolian UP: Cities lose their defences and their cultural influence when mongolian army is in the next tiles in "revolt style" (defending units aren't damaged).
*The city-conquest effect: A part of the city culture is converted in yours.

These changes make a great difference in mongolian difficulty. AFAIK Leoreth reworks mongolian gameplay to be more unstable.

Strategy:

I switched to vassalage and guilds the first turn. I sent my troops to conquer china.

The chino-mongolian wars:

I used the mongolian UP as more as possible. Chinese had muskets, but without defences they are down in the second try at most. I conquered Tibet and Korea in the next turns. I discovered calendar to have access to luxuries.

I razed Hangzhou and the second Korean city (on the iron). I should have razed Kaifeng, but I forgot to do it.

The mongolian imperialism:

I rushed settlers in all my cities and settled all my core area. The research rate was really good, so I managed to discover music and started building culture in my cities. It is enough to control the 12% requested.

The western conquests:

You need to expand in the west. The reason isn't the land, you can achieve it without even Persia, what you need is cities for razing. I built gers in all my cities and after that only keshiks. I decided to go for India, because Mughals controlled Persia.
I razed Merv, Herat, Lahore, Balansiyar (or something like that) and that-city-next-to-the-tile-Gao-should-be.
I should keep Lahore, that-city-next-... and raze Delhi and Madras instead.

Aftermath:

Mongols should be less stable and have a lower tech rate for sure. The game warned me that I exceeded the domination population percentage limit and I was still stable and teching really quickly. I think it is really possible to win anything, an early domination a conquest victory, a space victory, and a score victory for sure at this point.

There were two reasons for this large stability:
*Economic growth: and were added in my economy every turn, so the economy was in +10 stability bonuses permanently.
*Military wins: I lost too few units, it the first mongolian game I managed to win straightforward without a single reloading. Well, this is great, and gave me a +21 bonus stability points.

Proposals:

I believe that the economy bonus will be removed when they stop conquests.
The winning stability bonus should be removed from Mongols. I propose that their military stability should not exceed 0. It is the same as chinese who can't trade their monopoly techs. The mongolian UP gives them a great advantage and it contributes in their stability in two ways making them extremely stable.

As far as the tech rate is concerned it may be better to begin backwards or let the chinese to build pikes.

Moreover, the 12% goal should be raised at 15% or even 20% (China, Mongolia, Siberia, Russia, Kwarezmia, Persia, Mesopotamia, Anatolia, Levant, Egypt, Pakistan).

Nice game! ^^

since there isn't one here yet:

Inca (M/N, SVN 600); 1700 AD (virtual somewhere around 1650 I think), norm. Score: 2971



I have to say I thought they'd be more fun. It was just really, really luckdependant.
Spain showed up really late (~1520) without Gunpowder which made defending easy thanks to the Tombos.
Unfortunately they never made peace with me (untill the end), which was really annoying.

I took Chichen Itza from the Natives with the hope that the conquerers would spawn there but all it got me was 25% defense and a declaration of war from the Aztecs -.- (which meant I couldn't get my Great Merchant to them for the 2nd goal, still managed it though).

And then it's just settler-spamming. I bought Aesthetics, Music & Drama from the Dutch so that I could border-pop and reached >75% by 1700AD.

But with an earlier European visit (also Portugal collapsed before meeting me) or them having gunpowder earlier might have made things considerably more difficult.

And the initial battles at ~40-70% survival chance vs the natives are just crapshots.

also incredibly annoying:

only your capitol is in your core, thus you get an negative stability for every city you own except Cuzco!
And since your capitol is really small...I had -41 and lost a city here and there to the independents and just tried to avoid stability checks. still, really annoying

Two more, both still on the original non-SVN 1.11. I have tried the SVN though, it might make some of the other ones a bit easier, some a bit harder, I don't know.

Byzantium, Viceroy, Normal, 3000 BC start, 1440 AD virtual, score: 2803

I chose the earlier start because it would allow me to build up funds better. I chose normal because I wasn't that bothered slogging it out. The first condition was okay, I achieved it a few turns early. Basically I made every city build wealth and turned tech down to 0%. I did a bit of trading, especially for calendar, so that I actually knew what date it was. I didn't start with Iosnoina and settled it myself. Strangely the Babylonians were still alive when I spawned and there was Hinduism in Vibo Valentia (which got taken by the Arabs and hence purged) also Taoism and stuff was all over the place. 3000 BC starts are fun that way. This is how I think the early game went, some of the attempts just blur together in my mind. For the Seljuk invasion I just abandoned Ankara, leaving me with just 3 cities for a long time. Reading how other people have done it they all seem to build vast empires.

The second goal was a bit more annoying. A few previous times I had tried this other cities had had great artists build great works for them and so getting the culture thing was basically impossible. Because of the 3000 BC start I wasn't sure if the sphinx was even built. I kept getting great prophets anyway. A stroke of luck did occur in that I founded Orthodoxy and had the apostolic palace built and so Constantinople was raking the money in, especially after I used a great prophet to build the church of the holy sepulchre there. After I had enough wealth I quickly researched music and had Constantinople build nothing but culture. Luckily no one spawned any great artists (I assume at least). Unfortunately, the plague hit me really hard. It lasted for about 10 turns from 1100 AD to 1200 AD. As well, a foreign spy kept poisoning the well. Which meant I had to reload a few times to get building a few improvements in Constantinople right. I think it grew big enough on the last turn possible.

Whilst Constantinople was building culture the other places were building cataphracts and other units and as my golden age started Constantinople (Istanbul is a lot shorter and easier to type...) built them too. So I managed to see off the Turks and soon took Ankara, which promptly rebelled but I retook it. I wheeled my troops south, took Sur and Jerusalem and then invaded Egypt. Luckily, instead of relying on my troops alone I built some settlers and sent them down with them, because about 1420 odd the Mongols invaded and took Sur and Jerusalem. They also took one of the Egyptian cities I had just taken. Thus I built the cities with my settlers in completely stupid locations purely to win the historical victory. That's why on the screen shot they are positioned as they are.

Mali, Viceroy, Epic, 600 AD start, 1652 AD virtual, score: 1173

I originally tried Normal but found that I just couldn't get my great merchant to Mecca fast enough, also barbarians kept spawning whilst my guy was crossing the desert (great merchants should really have double movement speed in deserts, or move a bit quicker in general). I also tried this in marathon but I was having difficulty with that as well so I switched to epic. I actually managed to complete the first two conditions by 1350 which was nice. The most vital thing I think is proper city placement for your three cities. If one is weak you won't win. I settled my capital one north of the marsh, then Gao one south of the stone and then Salaga two north of the gems south of the two ivory. This meant they all had a decent size through most of the game. Build enough skirmishers and they should see you through, on viceroy at least. Also your workers will have to constantly rebuild improvements. I think I missed a trick by not building cottages on the floodplains as soon as possible, they would have grown to full size by the end of the game probably.

One piece of luck I had was that soon after I started my golden age the Moors collapsed and so I built some war elephants and took their cities, it was a good thing they only had archers. I initially tried settling the coast but one of Portugal or Spain always declared war on me to settle and take it. Indeed, one time the Portugese got the trading company event and spawned some units in the middle of the jungle right next to my city even though they shouldn't really be able to be in the jungle like that. Plus, it meant they were stuck in Accra. The two Moorish cities I took were much better than them though.

By the end of the game I was less advanced than Peru...I don't really like this UHV because it involves actively sabotaging your own advancement. I can't really think of a way that you could reach the UHV and have any semblance of advancement. Maybe you could go on the warpath really early on but I don't know. Has anyone tried that? Also, this will probably be the last I do because my laptop is lagging horribly as time goes on. Any requirements beyond 1700 would be too much for me. I might try the Aztecs or redo China. I really should start playing on Monarch but oh well...

Edit: I forgot to say that I produced 2 further great merchants that I sent to Mecca.

Thank you! The OP is updated to post #111 (except the post #108 because I couldn't load it with version 594. Citis, are you sure it's really version 594?).
Chep removed Citis from the OP in Inca 600 AD because Chep played on Monarch, had a bigger score and a virtual victory.

grr, I came here to post my French victory (virtual 1769, real 1799) only to see that there already is a faster one -.-
Even though the current one doesn't seem to be SVN with the stability/techmalus-changes.

Still, really nice game, Barbuesque.

I'll accept it only if you play a 3000 BC start, have a higher score or an earlier winning date.

ales_ said:

Thank you! The OP is updated to post #111 (except the post #108 because I couldn't load it with version 594. Citis, are you sure it's really version 594?).

Click to expand...

No I was wrong, it is 601.

I can't load it with version 601 as well.

ales_ said:

I can't load it with version 601 as well.

Click to expand...

It should load. It is SVN 601, I checked it. I don't know what is wrong.

I have retried to open it with 601. It doesn't work for me.

I tried doing the Aztecs, I think you have to build the six cities first and don't bother taking Chichen Itza because it has no hammers. This way you can complete the pagan shrine and sacrificial altar building before religion comes so you don't have to worry about that. I'm not sure though, anyway, for a bit of fun I redid my Arabia game and improved it a bit.

Arabia, Viceroy, Marathon, 3000 BC start, 820 AD virtual, score: 13845 (I think it is SVN version 601)

This was very enjoyable. I love Arabia on marathon because it means you can expand very very quickly. As I said before, 3000 BC is also essential to ensure that the other civs are technologically backwards compared to 600 BC.

Persia weren't there by the time I got in and I managed to destroy Byzantium by 672. I then declared war on the Romans and wiped them out by 708. A lot of whipping was done to build camel archers (I almost went bankrupt once) and they were preserved by only going into sure victories and savescumming if too many died. France went Islamic very quickly which allowed me to sign open borders with them and so I quickly destroyed the Spanish as soon as I could. I also decided to destroy the Moors as they weren't vassalising quick enough. After the Spanish a large portion of the troops went East to India and attacked them. This really boosted the population requirement and that goal was actually reached before taking the Maghreb. I also built the Spiral minaret and rushed a great prophet.

The rest was pretty simple sating over my empire. All the luxury resources from India meant everyone was very happy. Also because of the amount of fighting you do I eventually had 4 great generals settled in Mecca. If I organised it better I could have had a quite early URV or domination perhaps. Anyway, just before 1200 I gave the Indians independence so that the Mughals would declare war on them when they spawned, especially because of the weird bug in this version that means people never want to declare peace, even if you have a SoD outside their one remaining city. (It says on the info bar that they're willing to declare peace but you can't talk to them. I know people know about this bug anyway though). I might have been able to do it a few turns before 820 but I still think that's pretty good.

Oh also switching to warrior code at the start is a must to preserve stability for all the cities you'll be conquering. It meant my huge empire was super stable, and the Egyptians never appeared. I couldn't be bothered fighting off the Ottomans, their spawn isn't in your victory zone anyway.

Mongolia, Monarch, Epic, svn: Rev.601(also can load in rev.609, the latest svn), score 10403, finish date: 1436

Scenerio 600AD, in the current svn, Mongolian UP and UB are something overpowered, you don't need any siege weapons when attack cities, so I build Ger in every city I captured, and then Keshik-Keshik-keshik... The Military Civic is which can build units with food, it has two advantages, first, it produces more Keshiks, second, it controls the increasing of population, benefit for researching.

So I destroy China at the very beginning, Korea at the second, then Middle East(till Baghdad), East Europe at last. Meanwhile, I destroyed Aztec. I can't destroy Inca, because Incan work boat discovered my caraval first.

Pics:

Ilkhanate, Golden Horde Khanate and Khanate of Mexico...



History of Mongolia:



Demographs: