Realpolitik of the Smoky Skies - The Reboot

Et_Absoluti said:

OOC: Things are ramping up! The lines in the sand are being drawn.

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OOC: Well things got real close to dieing out so I thought I might intervene here

((On another out of character topic, I noticed earlier someone referred to one of the elected members as 'senator'. From my understanding the legislature is currently unnamed. Should we instead formally name the legislature the Senate? There are precedents for unicameral senates, for example in Ancient Rome, Nebraska, Star Wars . . . ))

Can we get a map showing the city states of cape town and Hong kong relative to our cities?

Orders:

((I've attached a draft idea of the ministries and elections of Pulias I was playing with just as a thought.

The conventional assumptions I've used throughout this is that the legislature is a Senate, which hasn't been confirmed or denied yet, and all ministers receive the honourific "the Honourable" even after they've left their ministry. The election part uses suspect voting figures because I don't know how the POPs voted and their votes aren't counted (I've included 'Others' as a party to represent them but haven't included any of their votes since I don't know what they are).

I also realised it wasn't explicitly mentioned whether the Honourable Et Absoluti is actually a sitting member of the legislature or not, because the prime minister has the constitutional authority to appoint ministers but not necessarily to appoint new members to the legislature outside of an election.))

Edit: The reason for the attachment is I couldn't work out how to show this as a table in-thread. This was just something I was playing around with that I thought others might find interesting.

Second Edit: An in-thread representation of this .pdf can be found in this post.

Third Edit: Removed .pdf attachment as it is now obsolete. Correct details can be found in the above link.

@Heerlo - orders will processed at some point here.
@Melda - If you want to have an in-thread table, I believe there's an option for that in the "Go Advanced" posting options. Also, I think we're just calling the legislature a Senate because we can (though you get a cookie for mentioning Nebraska's unicameral...)

Will be drafting speeches and maybe a debate later.

cpm4001 said:

@Heerlo - orders will processed at some point here.
@Melda - If you want to have an in-thread table, I believe there's an option for that in the "Go Advanced" posting options.

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((Yeah, I had a look at it but it was too fiddly for me to work out (have to code each cell?). If anyone knows how to do this easily please let me know, otherwise I'll just .pdf any updates ))

cpm4001 said:

Also, I think we're just calling the legislature a Senate because we can (though you get a cookie for mentioning Nebraska's unicameral...)

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((I like the idea of calling the Pulian legislature the Senate. If no-one objects it's how I'll be referring to it in-character.

Also, I had a thought: is there any benefit to giving speeches outside of an election period (among the POPs I mean)? Because if there is I think I've unwisely missed out some opportunities ))

1st Pulian Senate

• Pulias People's Party (PPP): 2 seats
• Pulian Advancement Union (PAU): 2 seats

Members of the 1st Pulian Senate

The 1st Pulian Senate sat from 1800 to 1812. No election was held; its membership was appointed by the Grand High Exalted Majah Charles Reddack who met to create an interim government and prepare the nation for a general election. Senator the Honourable Gustavus Gurra was elected Prime Minister by the Senate. The first Pulian Senate was dissolved prior to the Pulian general election, 1812.




First Gurra Ministry

The 1st Pulian Senate elected Senator Gustavus Gurra to the post of Prime Minister, and he appointed his cabinet based on a vote in the Senate in 1800. The ministry was dissolved prior to the Pulian general election, 1812.




Pulian general election, 1812

A general election was held in 1812 to elect seven senators to the Pulian Senate however the election only returned four senators. It was the first general election held in Pulias.

Please note: an accurate record of voting numbers was lost. The below details are a lower order estimate.

Results of the Pulian general election, 1812




Results by city




*The Honourable Gustavus Gurra withdrew his candidacy before the election was held





2nd Pulian Senate

• Pulias People's Party (PPP): 1 seat
• Pulian Advancement Union (PAU): 2 seats
• National Expansion Party (NEP): 1 seat
• Vacant: 3 seats

Members of the 2nd Pulian Senate

The 2nd Pulian Senate was formed in 1812 after the writs were returned for the Pulian general election, 1812 and was dissolved in 1822. The Pulian Advancement Union was the dominant party in the chamber, while the National Expansion Party and the Pulias People’s Party also had representation.

The Pulian Advancement Union arguably won the election but commanded only a plurality of the 2nd Pulian Senate, not a majority. It retained its number of senators from the 1st Pulian Senate, while the Pulias People’s Party lost one senator and the National Expansion Party gained representation in the Senate for the first time.

A grand alliance coalition government of the three elected parties, the Pulian Advancement Union, the National Expansion Party and the Pulias People’s Party was subsequently formed under the leadership of the Prime Minister, Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles of the Pulian Advancement Union. When the sole elected representative of the National Expansion Party did not attend a Senate sitting, the government could arguably be considered to have become a Pulian Advancement Union–Pulias People’s Party coalition government.

Interestingly, Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles was elected Prime Minister by the Senate despite not being the leader of a party, and was nominated for the office with the permission of his party leader, Senator the Honourable Ernest Barnard.


*Senator the Honourable Sir Parker went missing but officially remained a Senator due to no mechanism for removing absent senators.



First Antilles Ministry

The 2nd Pulian Senate elected Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles to the post of Prime Minister, and he appointed his cabinet in 1812.


*Senator the Honourable Sir Parker did not undertake any duties, having disappeared shortly after being appointed to the ministry. The Prime Minister replaced him with The Honourable Augustus Absoluti.

**The Honourable Augustus Absoluti was temporarily appointed by the Prime Minister to replace Senator the Honourable Sir Parker, who went missing before taking up ministerial duties. The Honourable Augustus Absoluti was a minister without a seat in the Pulian Senate.


Edit: Added for clarity, the convention I'm using is that ministers receive the honourific "the Honourable" for life once they become a minister, while the term "Senator" is only for the life of the current Senate. During an election campaign they retain "the Honourable" but lose "Senator" until and unless they are re-elected.

Second Edit: Had erroneously listed candidate Bouncy Mischa; have now corrected that with apologies.

Third Edit: Updated to reflect the dates of the end of the Second Senate of Pulias.

Fourth Edit: Updated to reflect that the Honourable Et Absoluti was not in fact a member of the 2nd Senate and that Senator the Honourable Sir Parker retained his senate seat as there existed no mechanism to remove him.

Fifth Edit: Removed definitives surrounding vote numbers. Changed to 'at least x votes'.

Sixth Edit: Renamed 'Et Absoluti' to 'Augustus' due to the retroactive name change.

Seventh Edit: Changed all the 'members of the senate' end dates to the dates each Senate was dissolved instead of 'to present' precisely because the Senate is dissolved before each election and a new one replaces it.

Eighth Edit: Corrected a really embarrassing error whereby the number of POPs for the 1812 election was listed as 8; it was actually 13. Also added the number of POP votes in each city contest.

Ninth Edit: Added in Gurra's first name of Gustavus

Tenth Edit: Renamed 'Magnive' to 'Ernest Barnard' due to the retroactive name change.

Eleventh Edit: Replaced the '+1' in seat numbers for the NEP with 'new' to show they were a new party. Replaced 'Heerlo ministry' with 'First Heerlo ministry'.

Twelfth Edit: Went through and added all the appropriate titles and honourifics in (The Honourables, etc.).

Thirteenth Edit: Added in 'Absoluti' surname to Augustus due to retroactive name change.

Fourteenth Edit: Added senatorial diagrams. Removed 'I worked out the forum code!' intro.

Fifteenth Edit: As there is now a Second Gurra Ministry, renamed the Gurra Ministry to the First. Also mentioned the Grand Majah's role in the formation of the 1st Senate.

Sixteenth Edit: Added 'Antilles' surname to Heerlo due to retrospective name change, which also necessitated a change of the minister's name.

That's good, Melda. But you have Bouncy Mischa listed as an independent. Isn't he in the PAU?

Heerlo said:

That's good, Melda. But you have Bouncy Mischa listed as an independent. Isn't he in the PAU?

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Thank you for the pickup.

My apologies to Bouncy Mischa and the Pulian Advancement Union.

If I get information about how the POPs voted I'll update the tables to include all of the votes (but I'll keep the 'turnout' representing the actual player voting turnout).

Melda said:

If I get information about how the POPs voted I'll update the tables to include all of the votes (but I'll keep the 'turnout' representing the actual player voting turnout).

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I will try to get that info to you here soon. Things are just getting a tad busy here so it might be midweek before I get stuff done on this.

cpm4001 said:

I will try to get that info to you here soon. Things are just getting a tad busy here so it might be midweek before I get stuff done on this.

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That'll be awesome, thanks!

No hurry on that, though. I was just explaining why my numbers are a bit rubbery and subject to change.

/me looks around

Is anyone here?

I'm still here, just waiting. But this thread has a history of coming back from near-death situations, so I don't think there's anything to worry about.

Sorry I haven't been posting, I was in the sticks.

Thank you for reassuring me, Honourable ministers.

Since there's not much happening just yet (soon probably) I wanted to take the time to acknowledge the success of cpm4001 going with a parliamentary/legislatural setup for this game (as he said in the opening post: "please bear with me"). I think it's been successful in encouraging the development of multiple parties, since it's not just win-lose like a presidential system can be in a game like this, because even if your party comes second or third you can still get representation in the Senate and influence the game. It also doesn't discourage the creation of extra parties since it's not so straight-forward win-lose.

Also, is it stated in the Civ mod that Pulias is a republic, or is that just for the purposes of this thread? Because in my opinion, at the risk of sounding like a monarchist, cpm4001 seems to play the role very effectively of a constitutional monarch (and I mean that in the best possible way, as opposed to absolute monarch). The constitutional monarch as head of state is like the bedrock upon which successive governments form in a system like that, and the monarch invites the leading party in the parliament/legislature who can demonstrate confidence in the house (win a vote of confidence) to form government (and therefore provide an elected head of government). Maybe I'm just thinking that because I've been reading about the UK electoral/political history in advance of their general election in May, but anyway the thought occurred.

I think (unfortunately) democracy is absolute.

Et_Absoluti said:

I think (unfortunately) democracy is absolute.

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As opposed to constitutional?

I'll get onto the update today - busy week, busy weekend.
It's not quite dead! It's getting better!