None Shall Pass 2 [Game Thread - Concluded]

Internet Flea said:

I think the idea of Morgoth being underpowered was as much about the win conditions as anything; they seemed least able to cooperate with the other factions.

Click to expand...

choxorn said:

The Jedi's goal was initially "kill the Empire and Morgoth" then switched to "kill the LOTR" after the Empire died. Would the Jedi's goals have switched in a different way if their enemies had died in a different order? Would the Empire's goals have switched?

Click to expand...

The Order's goals would have changed under the following circumstances:

- Empire is eliminated [mandatory]

- Luke Skywalker is a part of the Order OR the One Ring is in possession of the Order

The Empire's VCs wouldn't have changed, if you're wondering.

Click to expand...

choxorn said:

I should have just killed Takhisis that night- then Lightsaber Man still would have looked reasonably pro-town

Click to expand...

Buddhafish said:

Yeah you all lynched me in IV but it was towards the end. And I was part of the Three Horsemen. I was under the impression we were...yeah I guess scum but more neutral scum than scum scum if that makes sense. IIRC that is

Click to expand...

Zack said:

Morgoth:

The big bads. They were the main LOTR non-town faction, although I included one Star Wars character to throw people off. They were designed to be able to operate through the shadows, survive, and integrate naturally into the town network.


Backwards Logic (Morgoth):

Spoiler :

Elrond​

Player: Backwards Logic

Faction: Town. The Town is opposed to all who threaten its existence and seek to destroy it.

Alignment: Good

Universe: Lord of the Rings

Ability: Elven Intuition. Scan another player to determine whether or not they are a member of the Town.

Personal Goal: You can't escape the truth. Scan Morgoth.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from Wikipedia)

Elrond was Lord of Rivendell, one of the mighty rulers of old that remained in Middle-earth in its Third Age. His name was explained by Tolkien in a letter from 1958 to Rhona Beare[1] as "Elf of the Cave", as he was found as an infant abandoned in a cave. Later notes, reflected in The Silmarillion[2] and The War of the Jewels,[3] interpret the name instead as "Star-dome" or "Vault of Stars" (a vault in the sense of the celestial dome).

Elrond was the son of Eärendil and Elwing, and a great-grandson of Lúthien, born in Beleriand in the First Age, making him well over 6,000 years old by the time of the events described in The Lord of the Rings. Elrond's twin brother[4] was Elros Tar-Minyatur, the first High King of Númenor.

Although Elrond was considered half-elven, that was not meant to be an exact percentage value. Through Lúthien, daughter of Melian the Maia, he and his brother Elros were also descended from the Maiar, angelic beings who had come to Middle-earth thousands of years before. Elrond, along with his parents, his brother, and his children, were granted a choice between Elven or human fates by the Valar. Elrond chose to travel into the West and live as an immortal Elf, while his twin Elros chose mortality.

None Shall Pass:

One of the few survivors of the First Intergalactic Battle for Middle-Earth, you figure you're one of the very small number of people gathered here who is actually competent. To stand any chance of defeating Morgoth, your wisdom and long hair will be needed. Said wisdom enables you to look into a person's soul and determine whether or not they are aligned with your purpose -- in other words, if they are Town or not. Said long hair enables you to surf rad waves, though that is not quite as helpful in the current situation.


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated.

Defeat: The Town is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Town is the first faction eliminated.

But that's only your disguise...​

Morgoth​

Player: Backwards Logic

Faction: Morgoth. Kill everyone.

Alignment: Evil

Universe: Lord of the Rings

Ability: You can't kill me. Survive one nightkill. (Passive, does not require an order.)

Ability: Morgoth the Omnipotent. Scan another player to determine whether or not they are a member of the Town.

Personal Goal: I'm untouchable. You survive the game without ever being attacked at Night.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from One Wiki to Rule Them All)

Melkor (Quenya;IPA: "He Who Arises In Might"), later called Morgoth,[1] is the first Dark Lord and master of Sauron.

Originally the most powerful of the Ainur created by Eru Iluvatar, Melkor rebelled against his creator out of pride and sought to corrupt Arda, becoming Morgoth. After committing many evils in the First Age, such as the theft of the Silmarils and the destruction of the Two Lamps, Morgoth was defeated by the Host of Valinor in the War of Wrath.

According to an unpublished portion of Tolkien's conclusion to The Silmarillion, Morgoth will return at the end of the world to fight against good in Dagor Dagorath, the final battle.

None Shall Pass:



The big bad and his minions! Your leader is Morgoth (Backwards Logic), posing as Elrond. He summoned a Balrog (Count Dingdong), masquerading as the King of the Dead, to aid him in his important quest to wreck havoc and destruction across Middle-Earth. He has also corrupted the minds of Boromir (azzaman333) and Jar Jar Binks (remake20) as support in this dastardly task.

Here is the Morgoth faction's official QuickTopic, where you can discuss strategy and give orders.

Now go kill everyone!


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All other factions are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All other factions are eliminated.

Defeat: The Morgoth faction is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Morgoth faction is the first faction eliminated.

A very powerful godfather role. BL had the most useful scan in the game, and its use was the primary source of the Empire's early demise. He could survive one nightkill, which he did, and was immune to most scans (i.e. wouldn't penetrate his cover role). He was doing quite well, but unfortunately Vengeance discovered he was Elrond Night 1 and kept attacking him until he died.


Count Dingdong (Balrog):

Spoiler :

King of the Dead​

Player: Count Dingdong

Faction: Town. The Town is opposed to all who threaten its existence and seek to destroy it.

Alignment: Neutral-Evil

Universe: Lord of the Rings

Ability: This isn't even my final form. After you die, you can still vote and participate in the thread as any living player would.

Personal Goal: Aid from the grave. Lynch a town threat while dead.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from One Wiki to Rule Them All)

In the later years of the Second Age, he and his men also served and worshiped Sauron, until he and his army found Gondor. Isildur was the King of Gondor at that time. The King of the Dead made an oath to fight on Isildur's side when Isildur needed him, but when Isildur needed him most he did not come. Isildur cursed the King of the Dead and his army. Then the King of the Dead could not rest until his oath was fulfilled. In The Return of the King, the king and his army fought with Aragorn and the Grey Company at Pelargir. There they defeated the Corsairs of Umbar and an army of Haradrim. When the battle was over and Aragorn, as the Heir of Isildur, told the Army of the Dead that the oath was fulfilled, the king broke his spear and threw it aside. Then he bowed to Aragorn, turned away, and, with the rest of his people, "vanished like a mist that is driven back by a sudden wind," never to be seen again.[1]

None Shall Pass:

You wish these people would just leave you alone. Is it so strange to simply want to be dead and alone? That's not weird, is it? In any case, if they oblige and kill you, you'll reward them for their generosity. Whoever said the King of the Dead wasn't a nice guy?


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated.

Defeat: The Town is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Town is the first faction eliminated.

But that's only your disguise...​

Balrog​

Player: Count Dingdong

Faction: Morgoth. Kill everyone.

Alignment: Evil

Universe: Lord of the Rings

Ability: I'm unstoppable. Your kill goes through most protections and roleblocks, and you are immune to some scans. (Passive, does not require an order.)

Ability: Kill. Kill another player. (If you die, this ability will pass down to a teammate.)

Personal Goal: Spilling lots and lots of blood. Rack up more kills than any other player (lynches count).


Background Information:

Lore:

(from One Wiki to Rule Them All)

Balrogs were the Valaraukar (Quenya; vala "power" + rauko "monster"), spirits of the Maiar that were seduced and corrupted by Melkor to his service.[1] There were never more than seven, according to Tolkien's son, but in earlier versions of Tolkien's writings there are references to entire armies of Balrogs, at least before the destruction of Utumno. Gothmog was their captain during the First Age.

None Shall Pass:



The big bad and his minions! Your leader is Morgoth (Backwards Logic), posing as Elrond. He summoned a Balrog (Count Dingdong), masquerading as the King of the Dead, to aid him in his important quest to wreck havoc and destruction across Middle-Earth. He has also corrupted the minds of Boromir (azzaman333) and Jar Jar Binks (remake20) as support in this dastardly task.

Here is the Morgoth faction's official QuickTopic, where you can discuss strategy and give orders.

Now go kill everyone!


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All other factions are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All other factions are eliminated.

Defeat: The Morgoth faction is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Morgoth faction is the first faction eliminated.

The primary killer. He couldn't be tracked, watched, roleblocked, and his kill bypassed protection. He had the powers of a serial killer other than nightkill resistance, basically. There has been a tidal wave of criticism of his cover role, so here is my rationale for it:

a) Since he couldn't be tracked/watched and all he could do was kill, he needed a cover that wouldn't expose this. The cover ability I provided was unverifiable while CD was still alive. It also doesn't seem like a cover ability, which is a problem I've experienced with cover roles in the past. Plus Backwards Logic had this ability in Darths & Droids and almost survived to the game's end, and I caught a lot of flak when I suggested killing him (since there wouldn't be much of a loss), so I didn't think people would be so quick to kill someone with this claimed ability. I suppose something like claiming bulletproof would have worked, but that could have the same problem of someone testing his ability by trying to kill him.

b) If CD's evil alignment was discovered, the King of the Dead is a role that could plausibly be evil. For what it's worth, I'm 90% sure Verarde killed Count because of his alignment and not because of his claimed ability, and a different cover role wouldn't have changed this.


azzaman333 (Boromir):

Spoiler :

Boromir​

Player: azzaman333

Faction: Town. The Town is opposed to all who threaten its existence and seek to destroy it.

Alignment: Neutral

Universe: Lord of the Rings

Ability: Taste your own medicine. Target another player. If they use an active ability, use it against them.

Personal Goal: That was cool. Amuse the host with your ability. On multiple occasions, of course.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from One Wiki to Rule Them All)

Boromir was a valiant warrior known in Gondor for his greatness, having already achieved great merit in Gondor prior to the Council of Elrond. He was the eldest son of Denethor II, who was Steward of Gondor during the War of the Ring, and his wife Finduilas. Even the people of Rohan, particularly Éomer, admired him.

None Shall Pass:

One of the few surviving participants in the First Intergalactic Battle for Middle-Earth, you are one of the most qualified people here. You're not one to toot your own horn (usually...), but damn it - you're an important, qualified person! You know what you're doing! The Town needs you, Boromir, don't let them down!


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated.

Defeat: The Town is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Town is the first faction eliminated.

But that's only your disguise...​

Boromir​

Player: azzaman333

Faction: Morgoth. Kill everyone.

Alignment: Neutral

Universe: Lord of the Rings

Ability: Taste your own medicine. Target another player. If they use an active ability, use it against them.

Personal Goal: That was cool. Amuse the host with your ability. On multiple occasions, of course.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from One Wiki to Rule Them All)

Boromir was a valiant warrior known in Gondor for his greatness, having already achieved great merit in Gondor prior to the Council of Elrond. He was the eldest son of Denethor II, who was Steward of Gondor during the War of the Ring, and his wife Finduilas. Even the people of Rohan, particularly Éomer, admired him.

None Shall Pass:



The big bad and his minions! Your leader is Morgoth (Backwards Logic), posing as Elrond. He summoned a Balrog (Count Dingdong), masquerading as the King of the Dead, to aid him in his important quest to wreck havoc and destruction across Middle-Earth. He has also corrupted the minds of Boromir (azzaman333) and Jar Jar Binks (remake20) as support in this dastardly task.

Here is the Morgoth faction's official QuickTopic, where you can discuss strategy and give orders.

Now go kill everyone!


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All other factions are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All other factions are eliminated.

Defeat: The Morgoth faction is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Morgoth faction is the first faction eliminated.

I wanted to mess with people's preconceived notions about the universes and who's "good" and "bad" in them, and this was part of that. I worried that azzaman's ability was overpowered, and it was indeed very powerful - it doubled as an ability scan and used the ability. For example, if Takhisis had the Ring and azzaman targeted him, then azza would kill Tak and steal the Ring (this is how azza stole the Ring from christos). Using this ability scan can gain him townie cred and get him involved in networks (although there didn't seem to be much of a town network in this game).

Funnily enough, azzaman played Boromir in both NSP games.


remake20 (Jar Jar Binks):

Spoiler :

Jar Jar Binks​

Player: remake20

Faction: Town. The Town is opposed to all who threaten its existence and seek to destroy it.

Alignment: Neutral

Universe: Star Wars

Ability: I see you, stalker weirdos. At the end of each Night phase, see a list of all people that targeted you that Night. (Passive, does not require an order.)

Personal Goal: About last night. Send at least one PM to every player who targets you.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from Wookieepedia)

Jar Jar Binks was a Gungan military officer and politician during the waning days of the Galactic Republic. His clumsy behavior had, at one point in his life, led to his exile from Gungan society, but he was welcomed back by his people following his efforts during the Trade Federation invasion of Naboo. Binks aided Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi in their rescue of Naboo's queen, Padmé Amidala and, with Amidala and the Jedi, traveled off-world to Tatooine and Coruscant, before returning to liberate his planet from the Federation. Upon his return, Binks helped to forge an alliance between the Gungans and the Naboo, ending years of mistrust. For his efforts, he was promoted to Bombad General and served in the Gungan Grand Army during the battle for Naboo.

None Shall Pass:

You might be wondering why you weren't invited to the last gathering. In the words of one anonymous organizer for the event, "Jar Jar is an annoying idiot. Wasn't he thrown out the airlock anyways?" The fact that you're here shows the true desperation of the situation.


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All threats to the Town are eliminated.

Defeat: The Town is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Town is the first faction eliminated.

But that's only your disguise...​

Jar Jar Binks​

Player: remake20

Faction: Morgoth. Kill everyone.

Alignment: Neutral

Universe: Star Wars

Ability: I see you, stalker weirdos. At the end of each Night phase, see a list of all people that targeted you that Night. (Passive, does not require an order.)

Personal Goal: About last night. Send at least one PM to every player who targets you.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from Wookieepedia)

Jar Jar Binks was a Gungan military officer and politician during the waning days of the Galactic Republic. His clumsy behavior had, at one point in his life, led to his exile from Gungan society, but he was welcomed back by his people following his efforts during the Trade Federation invasion of Naboo. Binks aided Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi in their rescue of Naboo's queen, Padmé Amidala and, with Amidala and the Jedi, traveled off-world to Tatooine and Coruscant, before returning to liberate his planet from the Federation. Upon his return, Binks helped to forge an alliance between the Gungans and the Naboo, ending years of mistrust. For his efforts, he was promoted to Bombad General and served in the Gungan Grand Army during the battle for Naboo.

None Shall Pass:



The big bad and his minions! Your leader is Morgoth (Backwards Logic), posing as Elrond. He summoned a Balrog (Count Dingdong), masquerading as the King of the Dead, to aid him in his important quest to wreck havoc and destruction across Middle-Earth. He has also corrupted the minds of Boromir (azzaman333) and Jar Jar Binks (remake20) as support in this dastardly task.

Here is the Morgoth faction's official QuickTopic, where you can discuss strategy and give orders.

Now go kill everyone!


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: All other factions are eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: All other factions are eliminated.

Defeat: The Morgoth faction is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Morgoth faction is the first faction eliminated.

This ability is all about networking, but no one targeted remake the whole game except his killer. There was some talk that Jar Jar would get lynched/killed because people don't like Jar Jar, but I think that's silly and untrue. Maybe it would happen on Day 1 if that somehow came up, but otherwise people are always going to prioritize going after an actual case than disliking a character (which is exactly how remake's demise played out, it had nothing to do with him being Jar Jar). If anything, I figured people would find Jar Jar an unlikely scum or cover role for that very reason.

The kill started with Count Dingdong, then went to Jar Jar (because he had no active ability), then azza and finally BL. The last remaining member could both kill and use their personal active ability. (EDIT: The Berserker was the Morgoth team's kill after the Balrog died.)

All in all, I disagree with the common opinion that the Morgoth team was dealt an unfair hand. Rather, they had extraordinarily bad luck. I was actually worried pre-game that they might be a little too powerful (the town was not nearly as strong as people seem to think, a lot of the scans and abilities were misleading or prone to failure). Consider how incredibly unusual it is for vigilantes to be so accurate with their kills. People are assuming that because they were eliminated early, they must have been underpowered, which isn't necessarily true. They could have easily run away with the game if their luck wasn't so terrible.

I think the game suffered from their early demise and became a lot less interesting, but those are the breaks in a game as highly variable as this one.

Click to expand...

Visorslash said:

Not quite so scummy scum?

Click to expand...

spaceman98 said:

hmm.... I still think the Balrog deserved a different cover role. If I were Dingdong, I would have claimed King of the Dead with an ability to scan for Aragorn, and claimed that if I found him, I would gain a useful new ability of some sort. The gambit here is that this might have convinced Aragorn to claim to me (and therefore reveal himself). While this would make me vulnerable to watchers, I don't think their that high a priority.

Other roles that could have been given to him as covers include Gollum (since you already had the Nazgul as a ring hunter) or even an SW cover role.

Click to expand...

Question: If Azzaman had used his ability on Verarde, would he have vigged Verarde if Verarde wasn't one of the top three lynch candidates on the night before?

Click to expand...

Similarly, if Azzaman had used his ability on choxorn, would he have vigged choxorn, or would choxorn have been safe by virtue of being non-LOTR?

Click to expand...

Sprig said:

Havn't read all this yet but why was Jedi order defeated? We completed our VC.

Click to expand...

Spoiler :

Yoda​

Player: Sprig

Faction: Jedi Order. The Jedi Order is, generally speaking, neutral.

Alignment: Good

Universe: Star Wars

Ability: Rebuilding the Order. Attempt to recruit another player into the Jedi Order. If they are not a Force user, they will be notified that "Sprig attempted to convert you to their faction."

Personal Goal: Don't kill your own. Never vote for a Jedi (whether or not they are part of the Order).


Background Information:

Lore:

(from Wookieepedia)

Yoda was one of the most renowned and powerful Jedi Masters in galactic history. He was known for his legendary wisdom, mastery of the Force and skills in lightsaber combat. Yoda served as a member of the Jedi High Council in the last centuries of the Galactic Republic and as Grand Master oversaw the Jedi Order before, during and after the devastating Clone Wars. Following the First Battle of Geonosis, Yoda held the title of Master of the Order in addition to that of Grand Master. In his centuries of service to the galaxy and the Force, Grand Master Yoda had a hand in the training of nearly all the Jedi in the Order, including such luminaries as Obi-Wan Kenobi, Ki-Adi-Mundi and Oppo Rancisis; all of whom would come to serve on the Jedi Council along with him.

None Shall Pass:

This world deserves a better government. The Jedi must provide that guidance and protection against the forces of evil. The Jedi Order must be rebuilt for the good of all. Currently, the only members of the resurgent Order are Mace Windu (edse) and Yoda (Sprig), but it will undoubtedly grow over time.

Morgoth and his minions must be destroyed for the good of all Middle-Earth, especially since they threaten the Order's very existence. Likewise, the Empire must similarly be destroyed, as you are both well aware of the poisons of a ruling body guided not by the Force, but their own ambition. You have no doubt those bureaucrats would focus resources on consolidating power rather than serving as an effective government. Another item of interest is the One Ring, possession of which would certainly do much to legitimize your authority.

Plus, you need to prove that getting knocked unconscious and subsequently impersonated by a Sith was totally a fluke.

The Town is no threat to your interests, and neither are you a threat to it.

Here is the Jedi Order's official QuickTopic, where you can discuss strategy and give orders.


Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: The Morgoth and Empire factions are both eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: The Morgoth and Empire factions are both eliminated.

Defeat: The Jedi Order is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Jedi Order is the first faction eliminated.

Spoiler :

Mace Windu​

Player: edse

Faction: Jedi Order. The Jedi Order is, generally speaking, neutral.

Alignment: Good

Universe: Star Wars

Ability: Vetting potential recruits. Scan another player to determine whether they are a Force user, and thus capable of being recruited to the Jedi Order.

Personal Goal: I'll find you. Scan at least three Force users.


Background Information:

Lore:

(from Wookieepedia)

Mace Windu was a male Korun Jedi Master of legendary status who was the Master of the Order in the days leading up to the Battle of Geonosis, after which he gave the title to Grand Master Yoda. Hailing from the world of Haruun Kal, Mace Windu served as one of the last members of the Jedi High Council before the Great Jedi Purge. Serving on the Council, Windu was often regarded as second only to the Grand Master Yoda, though Windu was eight centuries Yoda's junior. Windu's wisdom and power were considered legendary by many, as were the weight of his words.

None Shall Pass:

This world deserves a better government. The Jedi must provide that guidance and protection against the forces of evil. The Jedi Order must be rebuilt for the good of all. Currently, the only members of the resurgent Order are Mace Windu (edse) and Yoda (Sprig), but it will undoubtedly grow over time.

Morgoth and his minions must be destroyed for the good of all Middle-Earth, especially since they threaten the Order's very existence. Likewise, the Empire must similarly be destroyed, as you are both well aware of the poisons of a ruling body guided not by the Force, but their own ambition. You have no doubt those bureaucrats would focus resources on consolidating power rather than serving as an effective government. Another item of interest is the One Ring, possession of which would certainly do much to legitimize your authority.

Plus, you need to prove that getting knocked unconscious and subsequently impersonated by a Sith was totally a fluke.

The Town is no threat to your interests, and neither are you a threat to it.

Here is the Jedi Order's official QuickTopic, where you can discuss strategy and give orders.

Victory Conditions:

Major Victory: The Morgoth and Empire factions are both eliminated, and you survive to the end of the game.

Victory: The Morgoth and Empire factions are both eliminated.

Defeat: The Jedi Order is eliminated.

Major Defeat: The Jedi Order is the first faction eliminated.

Zack said:

The Empire has been vanquished. Now the Jedi Order can move into the next phase of its plan - purging the natives.

Your condition for "major victory" has changed to the following:

Spoiler :

Major Victory: The Empire and Morgoth factions are eliminated. Additionally, all characters from the LOTR universe are eliminated.

Consequently, the Jedi Order is no longer neutral and is considered a town threat as long as there are LOTR townies still living. The Order now has a permanent nightkill, only functioning against LOTR characters. This is currently with choxorn, but it will pass on should he die.

Good luck!

Click to expand...

Sprig said:

Havn't read all this yet but why was Jedi order defeated? We completed our VC.

Click to expand...