Realpolitik of the Smoky Skies - The Reboot

OOC: Is it really that unusual? Granted, it's not common in Denmark that a minister isn't in our parliament, but it happens.

((Not that I'm an expert, but I'm not familiar with it generally being possible.

But the two main parliamentary systems I'm familiar with are the Australian and United Kingdom ones.

In Australia a minister has to become a member of one of the Houses of Parliament within three months of being sworn in as a minister.

In the UK I'm not sure about the House of Commons rules (I assume they have to already be a member of the Commons but I'm not really sure) however individuals outside of Parliament can be assigned ministries but it's an interesting way to go about it: the Prime Minister can request the King/Queen ennoble the individual --- that is, make them a lord so they can sit in the House of Lords --- and then they can be sworn in as a minister. This is sometimes known as being 'kicked upstairs', because political careers are considered to be effectively over once you're in the upper house in the UK because government is largely run from the lower house since the upper house is an undemocratic body.

But as has been noted, the precedent has been set by Senator the Honourable Augustus serving in the previous government. The Monarch didn't have a problem with it then; I'm assuming he won't now either. :p

But rabble-rousers like Mister Godwin sniff out even the whiff of controversy . . . it's kind of his job. :lol:))
 
3rd Pulian Senate




  • Pulias People's Party (PPP): 2 seats
  • Pulian Advancement Union (PAU): 2 seats
  • Independent: 1 seat
  • Pulian Imperial Party (PIP): 2 seats

Members of the 3rd Pulian Senate

Note: The city of Pulias was renamed Pulias City in 1822 after the general election. The city of Pulias is therefore referred to as Pulias City throughout.

The 3rd Pulian Senate was formed in 1822 after the writs were returned for the Pulian general election, 1822 and was dissolved ahead of the 1832 elections. It is the most recent Senate. Three parties each won two seats each: the Pulian Advancement Union, the Pulias People's Party and the Pulian Imperial Party. The seventh seat was won by an independent candidate.

Due to a misunderstanding of the party status of one of the candidates the Pulian Advancement Union is widely considered to have won the election but did not command a majority in the 3rd Pulian Senate. It retained its Senators from the 2nd Pulian Senate, while the Pulias People’s Party had a net gain of one Senator and the Pulian Imperial Party gained representation in the Senate for the first time.

A coalition government was formed by the Pulian Advancement Union and the Pulias People's Party under the leadership of the Prime Minister, Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles of the Pulian Advancement Union.

Once again Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles was elected Prime Minister by the Senate despite not being the leader of a party, and was nominated for the office with the permission of his party leader, Senator the Honourable Ernest Barnard. All three major parties in the Senate supported his candidacy.

Senator || Party | City | In office
The Honourable Heerlo Antilles| ██ |Pulian Advancement Union|Haven of Peace|1822–1832
The Honourable Ernest Barnard| ██ |Pulian Advancement Union (leader)|Pulias City|1822–1832
The Honourable William Melda| ██ |Pulias People’s Party (party president)|Haven of Peace|1822–1832
The Honourable Gustavus Gurra| ██ |Pulias People’s Party (party secretary)|Pulias City|1822–1832
The Honourable Augustus Absoluti| ██ |Pulian Imperial Party (imperator)|Coventry|1822–1832
Albert Bazil| ██ |Pulian Imperial Party|Pulias City|1822–1832
Bouncy Mischa| ██ |Independent*|Coventry|1822**
Edwin Zachariah| ██ |Independent|Coventry|1822–1832***

*Most voters considered Senator Bouncy Mischa to be representing the Pulian Advancement Union however the party itself disputes this.
**Senator Bouncy Mischa did not take up his seat after the election and was replaced by the Monarch.
***Senator Edwin Zachariah was appointed to the Senate by the Monarch to replace the independent Senator Bouncy Mischa who did not take up his seat after the election.


Second Antilles Ministry

The 3rd Pulian Senate elected Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles to the post of Prime Minister, and he appointed his cabinet in 1822.

Please note: The Ministerial Reform Act 1822 changed the four-portfolio ministerial structure which had been in use since the Dawn of modern Pulias and replaced it with a ten-portfolio structure.

First Arragement

Minister || Party | City | Portfolio | In office
Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles| ██ |Pulian Advancement Union|Haven of Peace|Prime Minister of Pulias|1822
Senator the Honourable William Melda| ██ |Pulias People's Party (party president)|Haven of Peace|Deputy Prime Minister of Pulias, Minister of Culture|1822
Senator the Honourable Ernest Barnard| ██ |Pulian Advancement Union (leader)|Pulias|Minister of Infrastructure, Minister of Economy|1822
Senator the Honourable Gustavus Gurra| ██ |Pulias People's Party (party secretary)|Pulias|Minister of Foreign Relations, Minister of Intelligence, Minister of Construction|1822
The Honourable Howard Stevenson****| ██ |Pulian Advancement Union|Pulias|Minister of Defence, Minister of Science|1822

****The Honourable Howard Stevenson served as minister despite not being a Senator.


Second Arragement

The Second Antilles Ministry was reshuffled due to the departure of the Honourable Howard Stevenson.

Minister || Party | City | Portfolio | In office
Senator the Honourable Heerlo Antilles| ██ |Pulian Advancement Union|Haven of Peace|Prime Minister of Pulias, Minister of Defence|1822–1832
Senator the Honourable William Melda| ██ |Pulias People's Party (party president)|Haven of Peace|Deputy Prime Minister of Pulias*****, Minister of Culture|1822–1832
Senator the Honourable Ernest Barnard| ██ |Pulian Advancement Union (leader)|Pulias City|Minister of Infrastructure, Minister of Economy, Minister of Science|1822–1832
Senator the Honourable Gustavus Gurra| ██ |Pulias People's Party (party secretary)|Pulias City|Minister of Foreign Relations, Minister of Intelligence, Minister of Construction|1822–1832

*****Senator the Honourable William Melda served as Acting Prime Minister of Pulias from 1822 to 1832.

Edit: Added the relevant titles and honourifics (e.g. The Honourable).

Second Edit: Replaced (leader) for Senator Melda with (party president), added in (party secretary) to Senator Gurra. Included information on the ministry reshuffle.

Third Edit: Replaced instances of 'Pulias' the city with 'Pulias City'.

Fourth Edit: Reached 1832, so updated post to reflect that.

Fifth Edit: Added in 'Absoluti' surname to Augustus due to retroactive name change.

Sixth Edit: Added senatorial diagram.

Seventh Edit: Added 'Antilles' surname to Heerlo due to retrospective name change, which also necessitated a change of the minister's name.
 
((I named our hitherto unnamed independent Coventry Senator 'Edwin Zachariah'. If there are objections let me know; I just didn't want to leave him listed as [Unnamed independent Coventry Senator] in my listing. :p))
 
I apologize for not getting my interview back to you yet. I've been very busy, and on top of that, Mr.Godwin has given me some hard questions. I'm not sure if there's any good way for this interview to end. :lol:
 
Today's edition of the Haven Herald contained the following article:

Heroic Heerlo Hails Haven Home
by Harland Godwin

It here follows:

Spoiler :
Having interviewed the presumed Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Prime Minister of Pulias, I really felt as though I had reached into the very heart of power at Senate House. And then I received an invitation from the Prime Minister's Office to interview the Prime Minister of Pulias, Senator the Honourable Heerlo at Senate House. To say I was honoured and felt a bit intrepid would be an understatement.

Expecting an official to escort me to the Prime Minister's office I was surprised when upon my arrival the Prime Minister personally met me at the main entrance to Senate House and shook my hand. He led me through the halls of power to the Prime Minister's own office where he offered me a seat in front of his desk, while he sat behind it.

H. Godwin: Congratulations Prime Minister on not only your reelection to the Senate but also for your reelection to the top job. How do you feel, being the first person in modern Pulian history to be elected Prime Minister more than once?

Heerlo: I'm not really one for taking pride in something no one else has yet done, I'm just glad and humbled that I am apparently trusted enough to have regained this office.

H.G.: Very trusted indeed, it would seem. It's unsurprising that your party's Senators all voted for you; that's to be expected given that you were the party's sole nomination for the position. But you got the tick of approval and votes from all of the Pulias People's Party and Pulian Imperial Party Senators, too. Do you have any thoughts as to why you're so popular amongst your fellow Senators, even across party lines?

H.: I honestly couldn't say. I hope they all think I'm doing a good job. Perhaps it's because I've never focused on campaigning against other parties. I always try to be kind to my fellow servants in the government, even those I am running against. Maybe that's why they all support me.

H.G.: Haven of Peace seems to have definitely lived up to its namesake by returning two pacifist Senators to the Senate at the same time. What are your thoughts on this?

H.: Haven of Peace is a wonderful city, I must say. As I'm sure you know, the founders of the city wanted a place where they could be free from the past violence of the Dark Age. That's what they've made the city into, a Haven of Peace, where senseless violence is condemned. It's only natural that they would elect Senators who will not lead them into a war that could destroy everything they've worked for.

H.G.: The Pulias People's Party Senator, the Honourable William Melda received more votes than you in your home city in the recent election. How do you feel coming second to a political novice such as him and why do you think that occurred?

H.: It doesn't really bother me. I want what's best for Haven of Peace and our entire nation, as does Senator Melda. He is a smart man; he will do a good service in the government. He is very charismatic and persuasive, and he really campaigned more heavily in the past election than I did. He fought a hard campaign and received a lot of support from the citizens of Haven of Peace. I look forward to working with him in the new government.

H.G.: Speaking of the new government, your ministerial lineup has certainly got people talking. Two main points in particular. Firstly, that the abrasive Senator Melda is now Deputy Prime Minister of Pulias. Are you confident he will not embarrass the government through his brusqueness?

H.: I will admit, I was a bit shocked by his behavior during the debates with the PIP. I really did not expect him to get so fierce and fiery. That said, I have not lost confidence in Senator Melda. I still believe he will be one of the finest leaders of our generation. I know there's always the possibility that he could say something to embarrass myself or the government, but that does not change the fact that he is a good man trying to do what's best for the nation, and I respect him for that.

H.G.: I see. The second point is the appointment of ministerial portfolios to a candidate who did not succeed in his election bid. Is giving Mister Stevenson a ministry when he doesn't have a seat in the Senate legal?

H.: To be honest, this did present me with a bit of a dilemma when appointing ministers. My party leader desired to have Stevenson serve as a minister. I wanted it as well, but I questioned the legality of the idea. However, I had a chat with the Great Majah himself about this controversy, in which he warned me about the potential consequences of such but also said that there was really nothing in the constitution that forbade it.

H.G.: So a constitutional loophole appears to exist. But does this not undermine the very foundation of responsible government, where ministers are responsible to the Senate? How can a minister be responsible to the Senate when he doesn't even sit in it? He is in effect a private citizen with a ministry!

H.: I honestly think ministers are more responsible to the Prime Minister than they are to the Senate, since they are, after all, appointed by him. Sure, the Senate elects the Prime Minister, but that makes the other ministers only indirectly responsible to the Senate. In turn, the Prime Minister is directly responsible to the Senate. We must also remember that there is a precedent to this: Senator the Honorable Augustus was appointed to a ministry before he was a Senator, but no one ever objected to that.

H.G.: Yes, everyone keeps coming back to Senator the Honourable Augustus. I think we can all agree, though, that those were exceptional circumstances: the seven-seat chamber had only four Senators to begin with, and one of them was lost. There simply weren't enough people in the Senate to allocate portfolios to. That is not the case now — the Third Senate has seven Senators — might it not have been an idea to allocate a ministry or two to the Pulian Imperial Party Senators before jumping into such constitutionally murky waters?

H.: That was a possibility, but, as much as I hate to talk about another party, I really am a little wary of the PIP. I felt it could be potentially dangerous giving them any more power in the government than necessary. And although this may be seen as an unorthodox way to handle things, I want to protect our country from turning into a neighborhood bully that intimidates weaker nations.

H.G.: There has been some talk about altering senatorial term limits, namely extending them. What are your feelings on this?

H.: I think term times are fine as they are.

H.G.: Some might say that it would look like an anti-democratic, opportunistic power grab by any government that sought to pursue this. Do you agree with that statement? Because at the moment the voters have the power to express their will at the ballot box once a decade but some of the suggestions I've heard would make elections occur only once a generation! In what way would that be fair or democratic?

H.: It is not fair or democratic. That would really feel more like an absolute monarchy to me. If we happened to have a bad government that stayed in power for decades, by the time they could be voted out, the damage might be beyond repairable. The way terms are set now, if a government is not doing what's right, the people have a chance to get rid of it before too much damage is done. Thus the government is more responsible to the people when working on shorter term limits.

H.G.: Hearing you say that could put some concerned citizens at ease. You definitely have an enthusiasm for the leadership of our nation. But do you have dictatorial tendencies? Is this the real reason why your party leader has been consistently overlooked for the Prime Ministership?

H.: I am willing to serve as Prime Minister for as long as I am needed by Pulias. But I have not forced Senator Bernard to let me be the Prime Minister. The past two elections we have simply agreed that it would be best to let me run for Prime Minister. If he ever decides he would like to have a go at it, I would gladly support him.

H.G.: So we could see a Prime Minister Barnard. Interesting. But moving back to the current government, is has been touted as the slowest to form in modern Pulian history. Would you care to elaborate on why that is?

H.: A number of things delayed the formation of the government. For one thing, this election took a while to be processed. Furthermore, after the election there were, as you've probably guessed, a lot of negotiations between my party and the PPP. This took a while within itself, and some occasional miscommunications slowed things down even further.

H.G.: Miscommunications? This doesn't bode well for the coalition government. Could the voters be going back to the polls for an early election? Or would you consider working with the Pulian Imperial Party if your partnership with the Pulias People's Party fails?

H.: I in no way meant that we were having problems working with the Pulias People's Party. They were very cooperative and easy-going about the formation of a coalition government. I merely meant that, because of the circumstances of all of us being so busy, there were the occasional misunderstandings about what each of us were saying and what each of us were supposed to be doing, not just between parties. During that time we rarely got to meet all at once. Now we have a special chamber in the Senate House in which to conduct meetings, so I do not think we will see that kind of confusion again.

H.G.: That's good to know. Can you tell me what your government's main policy agendas will be?

H.: I intend to continue doing this term what I did last term: building our nation and generally trying to improve life here in our great country. Right now we are in an era of peace, and it is a golden opportunity to grow and build our infrastructure without distractions. I would also like to see our economy improved this next term, and, as I'm sure you've heard already, the government believes that constructing a rail network will aid this process. We also have valuable resources, and we need to begin trade relations with our neighbors in the coming years.

H.G.: Thank you very much for giving me your time today. I recognise that as Prime Minister you are incredibly busy.


My impressions? The Prime Minister was much more humble than I would have expected from the man vested with the executive authority of the nation. He seemed exceedingly polite and good-mannered. That he was the only nominee for Prime Minister of the Third Senate is not a surprise as I can easily believe he is well liked across party lines. He didn't even seem to wish to speak ill of the irascible Senator Melda or his jingoistic political opponents in the Pulian Imperial Party. I was very surprised at his reserve. And having spoken with both Senator Heerlo and Senator Barnard, it seems very likely that the people of Pulias could very readily see a Prime Minister Barnard one day.


Today's edition of the Haven Herald also contained the following article:

City Celebrates Community Caucus
by Calvin Orville

It here follows:

Spoiler :
The Deputy Prime Minister, Senator the Honourable William Melda held a town hall meeting in the Haven of Peace Opera House today. Citizens came from far and wide to attend the meeting and share their views with their newly elected Senator.

"This meeting is an important demonstration of the government's connection to the people. It is not only the delivery of an election promise but is also a way for the government to demonstrate just how it is listening to people," the Deputy Prime Minister said to a group of journalists afterward.

Many people publicly declared the projects they wanted the government to undertake, some wanted to provide feedback on how they thought the government was performing and others were simply caught up in the novelty of the proceedings.

The majority of people in attendance appeared to be very pleased with the Deputy Prime Minister's visit, which is not surprising given that they elected him mere weeks ago.

"It's so nice of the Deputy Prime Minister to come all the way from the capital to talk to us. It really makes me feel engaged in the political process, like I really matter," one citizen said.

"He's just doing it because he didn't have any policies for our city; it's just a fig leaf to make it look like he's doing something!" another said.

"I'm so happy Senator Melda has promised to build a railroad; I really want to visit my family back home in Pulias but I'm not well enough to travel by cart with all that bumping around. And it's so dangerous at the moment with all the highwaymen! He's so brave for taking the risk to show how much we mean to him," an elderly citizen said.

However the most notable standout was one voter who said he wasn't impressed with any of the candidates on his ballot paper at the recent election: "I wish I could have voted in the capital; they have much better candidates there," he said.

Despite the wide views of the populace, politically and personally, the overwhelming opinion seems to be that the town hall meeting was a huge success. Perhaps with this positive example more politicians will make themselves accessible to the public like this.

The Deputy Prime Minister did not make himself available to answer questions by the press after the meeting. A spokesman from the Deputy Prime Minister's Office said the Senator needed to get back to the capital as soon as possible while the Senate was in session.
 
Has a Leader of the Opposition been chosen yet?

If none object, I will take that position.

So I appoint you to a minsiterial position without you being a Senator, and this is how you repay me? By becoming the opposition leader to a government led by me? ;)

Spoiler :
:joke:

But you are the first one we've had, so this should prove interesting.
 
In case this is necessary, I vote yes on Senator Bernard's Ministerial Reform Bill.
 
Congratulations to Senator the Honourable Augustus, Senator for Coventry and the first Leader of the Opposition since the Dawn.
 
While I still do not believe that the bill is strictly needed, as the Prime Ministe should be able to delegate the duties as he sees fit, I vote in favor of the Ministerial Reform bill.
 
Today's edition of the Haven Herald contained the following article:

Official Opposition Organises Office
by Harland Godwin

It here follows:

Spoiler :
Senator the Honourable Augustus, leader of the Pulian Imperial Party has made history by becoming the first Leader of the Opposition in modern Pulias. The Senator hinted at the possibility of taking up the role in an exclusive interview with the Haven Herald last week. As leader of the largest non-government party in the Senate it was widely expected that he would assume the office, but it was unknown if his party would opt for the Pulian Advancement Union approach of the party leader organising the party.

When I asked Senator Augustus last week what his plans were for the duration of the Third Senate were he to take up the role of leader of the official Opposition, he stated "My main concern is making sure that the Senate does not become an echo chamber, and that all views are voiced". He also expressed an interest in spearheading an anti-Luddite campaign.

When contacted for comment, the Deputy Prime Minister of Pulias, Senator the Honourable William Melda congratulated the Opposition Leader on his appointment, and said "I definitely wish him well. The Senator is certainly making history by taking up this role. We've never had an official Opposition let alone an Opposition Leader in modern Pulias, and as a member of the government I firmly believe a strong and effective Opposition is an integral element of a healthy modern democracy."

The Opposition's two votes will not have the power to stop legislation the government wants to pass through the chamber, but they will certainly be able to ensure bills receive the appropriate scrutiny and hold the government to account on the public's behalf.


Today's edition of the Haven Herald also contained the following article:

Booming Bulletin Begins Bureau
by Calvin Orville

It here follows:

Spoiler :
The Haven Herald's political reporter, Harland Godwin, returned home from the capital yesterday. But he was not in town for long as he was organising a permanent move from Haven of Peace back to the capital to open the Pulias bureau of the Haven Herald. Largely considered to be responsible for bringing the newspaper to a national audience through his popular political interviews, Mister Godwin has been posting stories back from the capital for weeks now.

"This really formalises an arrangement which had been already taking place," he said when I caught up with him yesterday. "Senate House is in Pulias. The politicians are all in Pulias. The political news is — mostly, not entirely — in Pulias. It just makes sense to open an office there so I can be properly staffed on-site to report on the political news where it happens and when it happens instead of trying to work with one foot in each city."

When asked if he would miss Haven of Peace he replied "Of course I will. It's been my home for many years now. But like most residents here born before the Dawn, it's not my original home. The modern cities of Pulias didn't even exist as such when I was born but I did live in the capital for many years before settling here in Haven of Peace, so it's almost like a homecoming to me."

Mister Godwin's popular articles can be read in the Haven Herald whenever there is political news worth reporting. His colleagues in the Haven of Peace bureau wish him all the best in his endeavours in the capital and hope to see him again soon.

Mister Godwin's interview repertoire includes the current Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister of Pulias, the Leader of the Pulian Advancement Union and both members of the official Opposition. Archived copies of these interviews can be purchased from the Haven Herald head office in Haven of Peace and from the newly-opened Pulias bureau. Coventry readers may request backorders by courier via the Haven of Peace office.
 
((Haha. :lol: Yes, I did in fact just go from having my NPC interview my PC to my NPC interviewing another NPC. :p))
 
So the voting for the Ministerial Reform Bill 1822 closes after one week of voting.

Even though it was probably not a necessary bill to pass --- enough people believe it's an executive action not a legislative one to convince me of that --- I think the ayes have it.

The bill passes in the affirmative. Unless the Grand Majah opposes it on constitutional grounds the bill passes into law.

The vote tally is below:

Ayes | Noes | Abstains
William Melda (PPP)|Augustus (PIP)|Albert Bazil (PIP)
Heerlo (PAU)||Edwin Zachariah (Ind)
Ernest Barnard (PAU)||
Gustavus Gurra (PPP)||
 
I would've prefered to get the Grand Majah's thoughts before the voting... If the constitution doesn't allow it (and the common rules are very specific in how the government is formed, see "The Government and their Powers"), it would make little sense to vote. But like I said before, in its current state, it would be a no from me, too fragmented.
 
Obviously as the Senator who commended this bill to the Senate I support it wholeheartedly.

((To get my constitutional law hat on, though . . . if a law if passed by a legislature that is unconstitutional it remains unconstitutional and the courts --- or in this case, the Grand Majah --- can throw it out. So legislatures like the Senate can pass unconstitutional laws all they like, there's nothing to stop them, but unconstitutional laws are struck down by the courts --- or whichever body handles constitutional law interpretations; the High Court in Australia, the Supreme Courts in the UK and the US, or the Grand Majah in Pulias --- if they are found to be unconstitutional. The legislature can either accept this verdict or seek to amend the constitution through whatever legal means and then pass the law again.

I'm not saying whether I think this bill is constitutional or not, just pointing out that just because a law with questionable constitutionality is passed doesn't mean it stays on the books. In most systems the highest courts of the land only deal with the constitutionality of laws if an appeal is made directly to them. In non-common law jurisdictions I imagine the courts investigate of their own volition --- not too sure.

Just some constitutional fun to throw in here. :)))
 
Top Bottom