COTM 02 First Spoiler: End Of Ancient age

COTM 02 – The Dutch (Open)
I have to say right off the bat that this has been one of the most enjoyable games of Civ I’ve had in a long time, even though I’m not doing as well as I would have hoped. Kudos to ainsworth.

After reading through the various opening strategy discussions, I decided to settle SE, develop the starting tile and then scout the hills with the worker. I thought about the worker-join option that had been discussed, but upon discovering the silks decided against it in favor of getting the luxuries online sooner. My city placements were impacted a little by my misunderstanding the agricultural trait (not realizing the Despotism penalty didn’t apply to towns on fresh water), so as a result Rotterdam was on the coast away from the river and The Hague was the first town to get the food bonus (was that a nice surprise when it showed up, The Hague being beside the cattle).

Had very little trouble with barbarians early and exploring curraghs discovered the two islands to the south, one to the north and then started to make contact with other Civs. I decided to follow a Writing – Map-Making – Code of Laws – Philosophy research path, hoping to get Republic as a bonus tech, but lost out on the Philosophy research to another Civ. That hurt and set us on a long, 50-turn research path to Republic, which it took a long time to recover from. Ended-up switching to Monarchy for a while just because I couldn’t stand seeing our agricultural trait crippled any more. Traded for most of the other techs, although always seemed to be slightly behind in tech development. Actually completed the Ancient Age without having Literature, which is unusual for me. Colonized the starting island as far west as the tundra, both southern islands, northern jungle island and already had four overseas colonies due to successful open ocean crossings. Had silks, iron and horses.

Fought one bloodless war that worked out well as we bribed three other Civs to join us against our enemy, who was much closer to them than us. Fought one brief war just before entering the Middle Ages against a Civ that had dropped a few small towns on the west end of our land. Didn’t enter any wonder races.

Entered the Middle Ages in 390 AD with 14 towns, total pop. 57, know all the other Civs, but trailing in techs by one or two.

One question I did have regarded the palace jump. After checking to make sure it was an allowed move in COTM, I jumped the palace from Amsterdam to The Hague by disbanding Amsterdam. However, I didn’t get anything for disbanding the town. Are you supposed to? Some of the discussion elsewhere seemed to imply you would get a settler? I guess my main lessons learned so far are know your Civ traits better and don’t always assume you will win the race to Philosophy. And I should take some screen shots along the way.

SniperDevil said:

So then there really is no strategy order of researching techs in the MA?

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I'm not even sure where to begin. Let's see...

At the start of the Middle Ages the AIs will be fixated on learning Feudalism. It is very rare they'll go for anything else till they know that. So, unless you are way ahead in tech and expect to stay there you should start by learning Monotheism or Engineering.

The top path is mostly a "builder" path, the bottom mostly a "warmonger" path.

If increasing your research capacity is a high priority you'll probably want to prioritize the top path to at least Education so that you can build universities.

If you want the maximum offensive capacity to go and conquer the world you'll probably want to follow the bottom path to Military Tradition to build Cavalry.

Many useful MA techs are optional, they aren't required to reach the Industrial Age. A basic decision to make is long term vs. short term. In the long term (if you're planning a game which has a long term) Steam Power is one of the most valuable techs in the game. Railroads enormously increase the strength of your empire. So for each optional MA tech you have to consider whether what it gives you is worth delaying your progress toward Steam Power.

An early decision of that kind is Chivalry. If you're going to be fighting a lot around this time you want Knights. If you can deploy a lot of Knights against a rival before they have Chivalry and before they have Gunpowder, you'll make fast progress against them. (And if they don't have the resources to go with those two techs then your Knights' advantage will last a lot longer.)

Music Theory is a good optional tech if you want to maximize happiness. Sometimes I go for it but most often I wait for an AI to learn it and then get it via trade.

Economics is similar - very useful for increasing income in a large empire via Smith's. But usually I'll wait for an AI to learn it.

Navigation is another similar one. This can be an exception - on some maps you may badly want the ability to cross or trade across oceans. So badly that you don't want to wait for the longer research path to Magnetism. In that case heading for this optional tech can be a good strategy.

If you are warmongering and can get to Military Tradition early enough it is very powerful. Powerful enough to be worth the long research path. Deploy enough Cavalry before a rival has Nationalism and you'll walk through them. Plus you get to build the Military Academy and then start building armies.

Free Artistry is probably well worth going for asap in a 20K culture game. Shakespeare's adds some nice culture and will also allow your 20K city to grow past size 12 so that its production can increase. In non-20K games I'm doubtful that it is worth researching.

I never bother with Printing Press. I can't think of an exception where I'd find it worthwhile to research.

In some games it may be a good strategy to go for Astronomy asap because it will allow travel and trade across sea tiles.

You can guide the AIs research path a bit in the Middle Ages. This is especially helpful if you're trying to maximize the overall tech pace, e.g. if going for a space victory. The AIs will almost always begin by studying Feudalism. So if you have it you may want to give it to them to get them going on other things. If you don't have it, research one of the other starting techs. After they learn Feudalism it is a tossup for them between Monotheism and Engineering. If you have Engineering and give it to them before they finish Feudalism it is a very good bet they'll go for Invention next, and after that for Gunpowder. So if following the top path makes sense for your other purposes, you can hope to trade for one or both of those techs. After an AI learns Education, it is a safe bet they'll go for Astronomy. So if you follow the top path to Education, then trade for something they learned on the bottom path and continue there yourself, you'll probably get Astronomy in trade a while later. None of the other MA techs are clear cut for the AIs. They will most likely go for Magnetism when available and Navigation when available. Everything else is pretty much a toss up.

SniperDevil said:

Also is a Democracy better to go for early or later? Shouyld i just stick wit Republic?

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I haven't used Democracy in a long time. The only gain vs. Republic is making your workers 50% faster. If you are fighting, war weariness is much greater in Democracy than Republic. The gain, and the potential downside, doesn't generally seem worth even the two turn anarchy a religious Civ gets to me.

Civgeek said:

One question I did have regarded the palace jump. After checking to make sure it was an allowed move in COTM, I jumped the palace from Amsterdam to The Hague by disbanding Amsterdam. However, I didn’t get anything for disbanding the town. Are you supposed to? Some of the discussion elsewhere seemed to imply you would get a settler? I guess my main lessons learned so far are know your Civ traits better and don’t always assume you will win the race to Philosophy. And I should take some screen shots along the way.

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Regarding palace jump. Many players time the palacejump to the round you produce a settler at your old capitol once it go down to 1 pop. And once the jump is completed you resettle the ruins because often you allready have improvements there. But there is no free settlers if you disband the city.

Regarding screen shots. Today most users have plenty of space on their hard drives. So space is not a problem. I use a program called IrfanView, that I have minimized when I play the game at all times. My rule of thumb is to allways hit Print Screen once something noteworthy happens, either planned or not. Then I can write quite detailed writeups based on my folder of screenshots(too bad it's hard/impossible to capture unit animations when the freak spearman defeat your Modern Armor).

Open Class:

In 4000BC a Dutch team of settlers and workers landed on the shores of a new land. Soon after their landing they discovered they may have jumped off the boat too soon. They were surrounded by a lot of non-land. Long dicussions where held whether to settle near their landing or not and - to get a better view of their surroundings - the worker moved to the top of a western hill. It looked like - behind a huge mountain ridge - a forest full of finest silks lay. So the whole landing party gathered all their courage and started a long treck towards the west.

250 years later in 3750BC Amsterdam was founded at the start of a river. Two armored exploring forces were started to check the surrounding area and the order was given to learn the secrets of writing; slowly but surely.

Amsterdam prospered and so in 3050BC a group of settlers left the crowded town to found a new one that should be rich and plentiful in food and never should grow fat, but spawn new expeditions, one after the other. The city was called Rotterdam and was founded only 200 years later in 2850BC.

Meanwhile the explorers found a landsend to the north and a small landbridge to the west. One of them continued there, hoping for more rich, plentiful lands and maybe even some gems or spices - oh he was wrong! Not before 2470BC he was disillusioned. He only found a wide, barren tundra with only a small lake to nourish.

Beeing trapped on small, half tundra isle and having not even a coastal town it was ordered that the next settlements had to be on the coast and will startbuilding exporing ships as fast as possible. In 1990BC The Hague was founded as first coastal town - starting a curragh and Utrecht followed in 1750BC. The first Dutch curragh was built in 1700BC.

While researching for more enlightenment and seeking for neighbours to trade with, Amsterdam sent out warrior/worker teams while Rotterdam continued to spill out settlers. Many ships were sent out, but most were lost in the rough seas.

The Dutch sages researched writing in 1650BC and Philosophy in 1450BC which yielded the art of map making. The knowledge of laws was soughed out next and a new, less repressive form of government appeared far on the horizon.

Finally the expedition succeded. Four foreign civilizations were met between 1450BC and 1350BC. They all had knowledge of many things, but they were not very clever and did not know how to read and write. Using this to their advantage the Dutch started trading with them which gave them many new technologies for giving just one. But do not cheer on their fate too soon! After the trading, wise men in Amsterdam discovered that the Dutch lands are missing horses and iron - essential for many things they just learned - and neither seemed nowhere near to be found.

Not beeing able to produce strong troops without horses and iron, research and exploration were pressed on and in 1200 BC code of laws was learned. In 1000 BC three more foreign borders are found, but only one civilization could be contacted, no people of the other tribes were to be found untill 150 years later. As Aristotle told earlier: these were the last foreigners to be found. Trades are done with them all; again only giving away one technology, but getting three new.

Meanwhile the wise men in Amsterdam had not been lazy. They ordered the next expeditions to the south; an idea that was totally neglected earlier, because some sages told, that the end of the world would be near the southern shores. But behold! Instead of the worlds end, small isles with horses and iron were found sitting next to the mainland set up like small presents and the next settlers from Rotterdam were sent to settle them. Bold plans for a Great Lighthouse were made after these discoveries, to never miss another nearby isle again.

In 825 BC The Mausoleum of Mausollos was built in Amsterdam. At first the Dutch were not sure, if they even wanted to construct this world wonder and just gathered bricks, thinking of a more sophisticated wonder to be built, but as the day of completion went near all were happy they decided to bild it. What followed were years of change: in 800BC The Rebublic was researched and in 775BC the revolt began - culminating in 100 years on anarchy, which were followed by the constitution of the Republic of the Netherlands.

Currency was introduced to the Dutch in 590BC. Still they got more and more unhappy with the lack of luxuries in their lands so a settling team was sent out by boat to reach a lone incense on a hill near another tribes territory. Upon arriving there, a barb encampment was spotted next to the incense. Having not a single military man on board the captain made a bold decision: from his maps he knew about some wine depots on an even further shore, which were only to be reached by crossing rough waters, his ship was not made to sail through. Nevertheless he set sail for these lands. After sending a dove home with a message telling his deceision a second expedition to reach the incense hill was launched. Again this was set up in a haste, so only one ancient age warrior accompanied the bold settlers.

It was at this time in 530BC that for the first time a foreign tribe discovered a new technology the Dutch did not know; they traded immediately and a new age of enlightenment begun...but many questions still are unanswered: Will the brave captain's ship survive the risky trip and even if, are more barbarians waiting on the other side? Will the lone, ancient warrior really conquer the incense fields and hold off all barbarian attacks? And will the Dutch be the first to finish the Great Lighthouse?

@DaveMcW: I thought about you republic slingshot too, but definetely wanted to get map making soon, so I didn't. Do you think it payed off in this game? Do you think rebublic pays off as a government when having 5 or 6 cities?

QSC (4000BC to 1000BC)

I moved the worker NW and decided to settle SW to get access to the Whales. When my first warrior found the Cows I reacted like this (very restrained I think ):

From 3150BC of QSC log
Warrior 1 N. A cow! Very sneaky. Could have reached the hill Warrior 1 is standing on in 6 turns, and would have access to the cow 10 turns after that when culture expanded.

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Amsterdam built a settler ASAP which settled south of the Cow. Despite all efforts I was only able to produce a settler from Rotterdam every 5 turns due to the corruption. It never crossed my mind to abandom Amsterdam! Instead Amsterdam was used to build Warriors/Curraghs. I did a lot of exploring, making contact with 5 of the AIs by 1000BC. I researched Philosophy in 1325BC, but someone else got there first. I had made a lot of contacts though, so was able to trade for a lot of techs to stay at the same tech level as the AIs or higher.

Here's an editted minimap at 1000BC:


QSC Stats:
7 towns
19 population
5 Warriors
4 Workers
3 Curraghs (Lost 7 during exploration)
5 Contacts
Bronze Working
Masonry
Alphabet
Pottery
The Wheel
Warrior Code
Ceremonial Burial
Iron Working
Mathematics
Writing
Mysticism
Philosophy
Code of Laws
Horseback Riding
Polytheism



Remainder of Ancient Age (1000BC-590BC)

I got fed up with the corruption in Rotterdam and built a courthouse. This took a while, so I only settled 1 more town during this period. I have, however, got another settler about to settle near some horses (can't tell you where they are though ).

I continued exploration and made contact with the remaining 2 civs, one of which was a bit further ahead in the tech race than the others. I also built embassies with all of them at the point a bunch of barb horsemen appeared.

In 590BC I completed research of The Republic and started a revolution immediately. The advisor claims 3 turns before revolution is complete. I was able to trade The Republic for Currency to complete the Ancient age required techs. The AI I traded with for Currency also had Feudalism, so I started research on Engineering. I traded The Republic around to all of the other AIs so:

• They will be in anarchy while I am (This worked, all AIs expect one were in Anarchy after the trade, the one was in Feudalism).
• They will have more cash to trade with me later.

Here's an editted minimap at 590BC. You wouldn't know it from this editted version, but this minimap is significantly different than the above 1000BC one!:


Here's a log of my tech pace:
2430BC Writing (Researched)
1575BC Code of Laws (Researched)
1550BC Bronze Working (Traded)
1550BC Masonry (Traded)
1475BC The Wheel (Traded)
1475BC Ceremonial Burial (Traded)
1475BC Iron Working (Traded)
1325BC Philosophy (Researched)
1225BC Mysticism (Traded)
1175BC Warrior Code (Traded)
1175BC Mathematics (Traded)
1175BC Horseback Riding (Traded)
1175BC Polytheism (Traded)
750BC Map Making (Traded)
730BC Construction (Traded)
590BC The Republic (Researched)
590BC Currency (Traded)

Singularity said:

Regarding screen shots. Today most users have plenty of space on their hard drives. So space is not a problem.

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I don't tend to take many screenshots along the way, I just keep all of my autosaves (yes, ALL of them!), then load them up to take screenshots when writing the spoiler. My c:\gotm\dianthus directory is currently 8.7Gb!

This is my first COTM game and my first game on Monarchy because I just started playing, but let me know what you think. I've been playing kind of slow to make sure I don't do anything wrong.. (this is on the easy mode)

Opening moves were to move settler SE and settle Amsterdam where I could eventually access both whale tiles. I worked the hill the two workers were on - road/mine - and moved the warrior NW to explore those mountains. I start off building settler but eventually change to granery. I start a direct research path to Republic and set to as high as I can afford.

Here are things at 3800 BC:



I begin building a road network into the island. I know I want a city on the NE most dye but the city will be worthless for awhile due to slow growth so I decide my next city should be inland more and begin roading my way there while exploring with my only warrior. So far I have been lucky and have had no troubles with barbarians, but also no goody huts. =(

Here's things at 3450 BC:



Rotterdam is finally settled the next turn after 2190 BC and I begin building a warrior. Not very eventful so far:



I have decided that this is a pretty small island as I have yet to meet any wandering AI units. I need to maximize the number of cities and make use of all possible tiles. I set sail in the hopes of meeting other civs and plan my expansion:



The following turns are very eventful. I contact 4 neighboring civs and there is much trading of knowledge. My investment in Writing pays off as I trade the others for most of the beginning techs. I continue my path towards republic. I settle 3 new cities and move my warriors into possition to keep the fog of war away from my undefended heartland. Go Netherlands!

1025 BC:



After extensive trade we aquire Navigation from our neighbors and set sail with galleys filled with settlers. Our investment pays off and we aquire new lands to the south. Tech is fast passed and the AI keep us on our toes. Additional cities are founded and our island is quickly being filled.

450 BC:



By 30 BC we are well underway into the Middle Ages. Our goal of reaching Republic first paid off. We have yet to make the switch but we aquired every tech from the Ancient Age from our neighbors, managing a small tech lead over 2 AI's and a sound lead over 2 others. We have no Great Wonders and few city improvements but a large number of swordsmen and most of our island covered with cities. By this time we have also managed to contact 2 additional civs but at a high cost. The seas are dangerous even for the Dutch.

Here's how things look a few turns after entering the Middle Ages

:

We have company. It looks as if that gally intends to drop a settler on our tundra to the SW. Now we must decide wether to make our first enemy or allow them a small piece of our territory. I also must decide what form of government to change to. I am not good with governments so any advice would be appreciated.

So far it looks as if we lack luxuries and we are confined pretty solidly on our little island. Which is both good and bad. I'm not sure what direction to take the game at this point..

Open

Wow, there's been quite a few updates since I noticed it last night, at bed time. After I post, I need to go back read through the last couple pages.

Opening Moves & Thoughts:

With a domination victory in GOTM32, I set my mind toward a quick and clean game = diplomacy. I considered a 5CC, but figured the start was too poor. Of course, I never thought to spend my first 5 - 6 moves placing my capital as some did. Kudos to those who did it successfully, but I'll pass on such approaches for now.

I moved my worker west and discovered the peninsula. I chose to settle Amsterdam on the BG, gaining the two whale resources.

Exploration:

Sent a couple Curraghs out exploring ASAP, contacting all rivals in the AA.

Expansion:

Established 11 settlements in the AA, just reaching the westward tundra region. I did settle the surrounding islands, to the north & south, ASAP. I anticipate these will hold strategic resources in the future.

Barbarians:

No problems whatsoever. I came upon two barb camps and razed them. I set a warrior at the westward chokepoint to intercept any coming that way and positioned a few units on mountain & hill tops to prevent barb camps from spawning.

Conflicts:

I waged a brief war v. Civ #1 when I spotted a settler escorted by a warrior near the chokepoint. Once it moved to build at the chokepoint, I declared war and captured the settler (gaining two slavers). Peace was reached soon w/ out incident, but it gave me time to further my hold on the starting landmass.

Research:

Sliders set at 8-2-0, queued for Philosophy. When Amsterdam grew to pop 2, I reset my sliders to 1-9-0 (Writing in 29 turns). After meeting Civ#1, I chose to hold off any tech trades since it was likely Civ#1 knew others, and I would lose potential deals as a result.

Reached Philosophy first in 1725 BC, picking Map Making as my free tech. In 1550 BC, I begin brokering techs among rivals, including all rival civs in due time. Research Republic in 510 BC and switch immediately. Dutch Republic born in 450 BC. Construction is researched in 130 BC, sending me into the Medieval Age. As far as tech goes, this has been one of my quickest ascents to the MA in recent times.

Outlook:

The future looks bright. I've got a valuable wm ready to sell once possible. I'm also confident of holding the tech lead and brokering deals among the rivals when it fits my needs. Any future wars as a result of Dutch aggression will only be to secure strategic resources, as I expect I'll be w/ out 1 or 2 in .

Repeat Offender said:

I just started playing, but let me know what you think.

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First off, I think you're doing very well for someone who is new to Monarch level .

You're going to have trouble comparing your game with those that moved their settler at the start. I wish I could claim they all cheated , but Sir Pleb's explanation shows there were perfectly good and logical reasons for moving it.

I expanded slightly faster than you, with 7 towns and a settler at 1000BC. I expect that is for 2 reasons:

1. I built a Granary in Rotterdam pretty early so it could grow every 2 turns.
2. I concentrated my workers on getting Rotterdam productive. I moved my 1st worker directly across to the cow without spending lots of time roading the hills/mountains, and didn't build lots of roads outside Rotterdam until just before I had settlers ready to settle there.

I also completed the Ancient Age a lot sooner than you. I didn't actually research that many techs (only 4), and traded for the rest. It looks like you met the other civs, though maybe you met them later than me? (I met AIs at 1870BC, 1525BC, 1250BC, 1200BC, 1000BC, 825BC and 670BC). Did you miss some trading opportunities? It's possible, however, that this might be a difference between Predator and Open/Conquest level. In my Predator game the AIs started off with 2 settlers, so maybe they were able to reach a decent tech pace a lot sooner and so have more to trade.

Have you decided what victory condition you want to aim for? This is very important in deciding what to do next, especially as long term strategic planning is something we can do that the AI can't. Even if you're not going for a military victory it's a good idea to gain some more territory to increase your score. You'll probably want to start building Horsemen ready to upgrade to Knights/Cavalry before any offensive as it's far too late for an archer/swordsman war. Changing out of Despotism is definitely something to do ASAP. The Republic is far better than Monarchy for a large empire (you might want to look at the comparison I made at the end of my CGOTM01 writeup). I'm not so sure about a small one, but I changed to The Republic because I intend for my empire to become large in the future .

Well I'm actually fairly out of Ancient Age at 30 BC. I only have a few turns to Monotheism so I'd estimate I've been in Middle Ages atleast 15 turns by the last screenshot. I think my plan is domination victory. I don't think I can win a cultural victory because we are on such a small land mass and I haven't gotten a single Wonder and probably won't get many at all. I think I'm going to have trouble keeping up the tech pace if I don't get more cities. Also, I imagine the longer I wait to expand, the less the AI will think of me (they have already extorted Gold from me 2 times). I'll definately take your advice and go for republic and probably invade north ASAP and instigate some wars.

SirPleb said:

...Also, that silk tile would eventually (chopped, roaded, and mined) become a 2f+1s+3g tile, a nice one for science. So a chop there was desirable sooner or later. Adding all that up I decided to begin working it right away before even settling.

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Yes, I also contemplated going for the silk at my capitol. But my desire to find the center of the riverstretch to increase lowcorruption rivergold in my first cities was of greater concern. But did you chop away the wood loosing the 10s, or did you wait untill 'capitol hill' expanded it's culture? I guess your spoiler will reval that.

@Ainwood

I forgot to mention this in my spoiler. But I truly feared finding only marshes behind the mountains. The dutch is probably the finest marshland drainers in the world This was my greatest concern before I moved my settler. Cracker would probably have filled the island with marshland, like the jungle island in GOTM17.

Sir Pleb thanks for the info... it will help my tech rate a lot

Singularity said:

did you chop away the wood loosing the 10s, or did you wait untill 'capitol hill' expanded it's culture?

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Neither! I chopped immediately, completing that task two turns after founding Amsterdam. The shields from chopping go to the city even if its borders haven't expanded to the second ring yet.

dont wanna sound like an idiot but do u think in this game a Republic would be better than monarchy?

Negative. I took the Monarchy path and it took me to communism. I had no problems at all. I've got a late 66% territory victory, but that's all AI's fault. They just kept declaring war on me. Almost 1/2 of the game my army was 50% of the world's. Since the game was hand-tailored by Ainwood, I got panicky for recources... you know... better safe than sorry... err... so i conquered. A lot.

All the AI got is

SirPleb said:

Neither! I chopped immediately, completing that task two turns after founding Amsterdam. The shields from chopping go to the city even if its borders haven't expanded to the second ring yet.

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Heh, that's indeed a useful piece of information. I keep learning new stuff about this game all the time. I just assumed it would have to be chopped under your cultural umbrella. Do you know what formula the game uses to distribute shared tiles that's chopped, what city gets them? It would be interesting to know in the cases where you need to switch from a 1 turn production to avoid spilling the surplus shields.

I think there's some useful information along these lines in a recent Stategy article here You should read it through a bit though because there were some errors in the initial post. It also diverts into stuff about city naming conventions ...

@alanH: this post you mention... its absolutely and totally insane How much do you get by that forestry anyway? *so* much improvement you cannot play without it? hmmm...