RBC13F - Frenetic Franks - Diety

Ridgelake

Prince
Joined
May 24, 2002
Messages
597
Roster:

Ridgelake
Kylearan
Charis
Kabuki


We are the Franks (modern day France). I have not had the opportunity to look at the Civpedia yet. But Charis has posted a lot of information in the poll thread.

I wil try to look at things in more detail tomorrow night and post some preliminary thoughts for discussion.

If anyone has some ideas, please feel free to express them. As Charis knows, I enjoy a lively strategy discussion in my games. So speak up!

:hammer:
 
Checking in! I haven't realized it when I first read Charis' roster suggestions, but now I'm playing two neighbouring civs: Franks and Burgundy. Ah well, at least on a vastly different level of difficulty, and hopefully with a different approach. ;)

Here's a birdseye view of our starting lands:



Random thoughts:

Note that Ampruias and Ghent have cultural problems and are in danger of flipping to the Franks. We shoud either raze the offending Frank cities rather sooner than later, or garrison our cities accordingly, or build a temple there ASAP.

Paris with its wheat can be a nice settler/worker factory. But we don't have that much land to settle, so some semi-early war will be in order, most probably against the Franks. (The dark red border to the west looks like a singe city from a civ? Don't know which; probably a norse?)

Boulogne should probably build a curragh ASAP to make contacts.

Which research path do we want to pursue? First tech will probably need 40 turns for us, so I guess there's not much sense in researching the required techs for ourselves. Better open up one of the optional branches and buy the rest.

I guess on this diff, it would be very hard/binding too many of our resources to try to get the Holy Roman Empire great wonder; I guess we will rely more on our pointy stick for later research?

More detailed thoughts later.

-Kylearan
 
Checkin' in! :hammer:

Ridgelake, thanks for hosting and starting up the thread. Your dual-Frank-Burgundian nature is showing up in the form of madness!! You speak about attacking Franks and cities flipping to the Franks and yet... that is us! C'est moi??! :lol:

We have a pretty decent sized starting empire, slightly less exposure than Germany to the Vikes, but our toughest problem may be the distance to Jerusalem, our final and key goal. The HRE wonder *by divine right* belongs to us, and given the few number of competitors going for it, I like the idea of making it a key goal in this game. That puppy is ToE+HeroicEpic+Pentagon combined! At 500 shields, that's a bargain. Pre-req is Western church, so again, our ONLY real competitor for it is Germany! Since we can manage cities and prebuilds better, tis ours to make or not.

Paris has rax/temple and market, and so does best by staying large and producing military for the country rather than settlers/workers, imho. Yes, it has wheat, but it's on a river and can grow - probably better than military is to let it do so (grow) and be our wonder city. We have to wait until next era (just two purchased techs away) to start that, so for now, military (one worker or two if needed to mine the grass and irrigate and get the city productive. Remember we're in Monarchy, no despot penalty :goodjob:

The dark red city border is a lone Norse city, disconnected from its friends. Let's not tick off the Vikings of any civ. What they did to France in terms of pillaging is legendary :eek:

Boulogne and Ampurious, our two coastal cities on different bodies of water, should definitely build curraghs ASAP. As Ridgelake notes, contacts (and maps) will be HUGE in this game.

Which research path do we want to pursue? First tech will probably need 40 turns for us, so I guess there's not much sense in researching the required techs for ourselves. Better open up one of the optional branches and buy the rest.

I concur fully! I would tend towards Norse, to get Blacksmiths, but wouldn't rule out self-researching ALL trees eventually and trading/pointy-sticking the non-gateway techs. After all, we are such a cultured multinational empire!

There's not a ton of room to settle - build up early sounds good unless someone has specific reasons/experience not to. That means lots of workers, a few settlers at most, rax, military, and exploration. For example, Paris on granary, Ghent a temple to expand/fight culture pressure/grab the wheat,

If we *do* go for a quick war, I would think it would be mostly with swords, and at Ghent and/or to relieve pressure. Actually, we have no iron, but two in range - so a settler to found right in between the TWO iron could be great, and better than a temple expansion. So Angers to settler, Orleans with low corruption to rax, Bordeaux worker or curragh, Clairmont needs a temple or settler to grab those French wines! Warriors for MP from other cities before the iron connects is probably good, as are a spear or two, or another rax. These are just my thoughts as I cycle through the cites, not a prescription guys! :p

Kings and relic? Leave the relic in our capital? We can let a sturdier unit pick it up later? (Dunno, first time for reverse capture the flag for me) I would use our fast kings to fog bust in the first 20 turns, then get back home and do MP duty.

Let us return the sacred Crown of Thorns to Jerusalem! (And heck... since we're going to *ALL* that trouble of getting there and amassing a huge army, we may as well take the relics from Burgundy and/or other nations with us!!! :D)

Charis
 
Lots of good analysis Kyle and Charis. Unfortunately, I am buried at work right now and can't afford the time to delve in and analyze closely what we might want to do. I am going to have a hard time getting enough time to play this week. So Kylearan, if you would be willing, would you start us off when you are ready? Assuming that starting off is ok with you, the play order will be:

Kylearan
Charis
Kabuki
Ridgelake

Lets go 10 turns each. There are 204(?) turns in the scenario. It could work out to as many as 5 turns for each of us. We will see.
 
Ridgelake, thanks for hosting and starting up the thread. Your dual-Frank-Burgundian nature is showing up in the form of madness!! You speak about attacking Franks and cities flipping to the Franks and yet... that is us!

Oh. Er...yes. We Franks, them Burgundians. Got it now. :) But my madness seems to be contagious, as you call me Ridgelake twice in your post, and yet... I'm Kylearan! :p

I can start us off tomorrow, unless somebody else wants to play earlier and posts a "got it".

-Kylearan
 
Cannot resist. Must comment on this.
The HRE...our ONLY real competitor for it is Germany!

:p
Completely wrong. Ok, England is not really likely to get it, but Poland will build it if they start in in their capitol. Period. Poznan can easily outproduce all other Catholic capitals...

And just a small hint...In a DG Germany game, the Poles beat me for the HRE (2 turns..), despite me starting a prebuild in the 2nd turn...On Deity, this means: If you want to have a good shot at the wonder (sometimes nobody seems to start it for any reason, but this would be pure luck), dedicate a city NOW - obviously Orleans. Rush a Temple, join Workers, start on Palace in turn 2.

Just my 2c...
 
Doc is right, the Poles are the one to beat to the HRE. I played this scenario as the Franks on Emperor and they almost beat me to it.
You don't necessarily need to bring the Relic to Jerusalem to win the game by VP, well at least on Emp. I won by conquering the Sapniard, Cordova, Burgundy and Germany.
 
I'm of mixed opinion on these types of tips! I appreciate our lurkers input and wisdom from their experience, and in this case it's some particularly useful information, thanks!

OTOH, I'm trying to plan and play this game knowing 'starting conditions', where different civs are and things that would be evident in looking at other threads at the same year. There's no way to expect a 'minor AI' is odds-on favorite to build the best Catholic wonder ;) With the ToE properties of that wonder, it's one case where going and capturing it isn't quite as good as building it yourself. Outproduce or not, the AI is such a poor developer of its cities that I can't imagine losing the HRE - but this is definitely difficulty dependent.

We have two options, let's look at these:
* Paris-centric - with wheat, its size 3, being on a river, and with some pampering, Paris could be about size 10-11 during its wonder building, pulling in about 15spt, but with only a prebuild of a few turns if timing correctly. In this scenario Orleans has to be the military producer for the nation, and a few other cities need to crank out several workers. Until the tech is available Paris can crank military, and perhaps 1-2 workers as well, to be added back in later.
* Orleans-centric - it would be slower to grow, probably needing a few workers added to it, and if say size 8 at the same point in time, it would be producing 20spt due to iron hills and so many BG tiles. Also, it could prebuild palace in safety (after temple)
If Orleans goes temple-palace, then Paris will be the main rax site, and should get to 10spt then 15spt asap. Supporting towns should kick out a worker for Orleans asap, and Paris can contribute two as well, to work its own land then to merge into Orleans after it mines the Orleans hills.

Aye, the production difference is large, and Orleans is the better choice, even without foreknowledge of the Poles. Let's do that! (Had that analysis shown an equal 18ish spt for both I would probably stick with Paris)

@Kylaran - *Ha!* The madness is indeed spreading!! So many other threads starting out with the hosting posting the opening first then an immediate followup with strat thoughts, that I figured it was Ridgelake continuing his post. :whipped:

In conclusion... I like learning more about the scenario and what happened when other people played, so please do continue with tidbits from your games guys :cool:

Charis
 
@Charis: I'm well aware to avoid any spoilers that are not evident from other games at the same time, or a peak at the editor for the start; but in this case, I think you completely overlooked that Poland is by no means a 'Minor AI Civ', it is a real competitor, with Knight UU (Castile too, btw) and preknowledge of Western Church - if you read the Civilopedia, you'll notice it. The other AI Civs (Celts, Magyars, Bulgars, Castille) are pathetic.

As for any other information, well, look at 'my' SGs if you cannot resist; and I will further comment on obvious misconceptions (like calling Poland 'minor' :p ) .
 
Indeed, interesting tidbit about Poland. I wonder if the fact that Poland is almost guaranteed to get HRE is by design, or just a coincidence (or oversight?).

Anyway, I like the Orleans approach better, too - I don't like fiddling around with small prebuilds and rather have the palace for that. What I don't know, though, is if the palace will be expensive enough to serve as an ultra-early prebuild, although Doc's comment seems to indicate this (I will see that tomorrow).

Hm...let's see how the two games I'm in (Franks, Burgundy) differ. Both teams seem to favor the Nordic tech tree first...both go for the HRE... the Burgundy game has been moved up to emperor...in both games it's very likely that the first conflict will be Franks vs Burgundy... Let's see how similar the games will be once the Frank and Burgundy cores have been merged in each game. :p

-Kylearan
 
lurker's comment: Poland is only that likely to get the HRE if the Human plays Franks/Germans/Burgundy, because in that case the player will try to keep the other Civ weak, while being subject to the production malus himself. If no human Catholic Civ is involved, chances for Franks, Germans and Poles are about equal, England is rare, and Burgundy didn't happen to me so far (IIRC the HRE requires Quarry -btw, check that!, and AI Burgundy usually has none.
 
I set research to 10% on norse tradition, and we are making +13gpt. Paris starts a granary. Three temples are ordered up: At Ghent to get the wheat tile and to fight cultural pressure, at Ampurias to get the quarry into our borders and to put pressure on Marseilles, and at Orleans to prepare for the HRE and to get the iron. Boulogne starts a curragh for early exploration, Clermont a barracks and Angers a quick settler to increase unit support. Bordeaux starts to build a worker.

Until harbors will be known, Ampurias will be a sorry little town - but if we can use it to flip Marseilles, it's okay. Our kings set out to explore, and our workers move towards Paris and Orleans to improve our two most important cities.

(1) 846 AD: Two berserks have moved near Eleanor of Aquitaine. Do they make me nervous? Yep. :) Denmark and Burgundy are known to us now.

(2) 849 AD: I rush the temple in Ghent which hopefully won't be wasted money, but I would like to keep that city until we are ready to attack the Burgundy capital, Aix-la-Chapelle.

(3) 852 AD: We meet Castille and the Celts. Ghent starts a worker.

(4) 855 AD: Wines are now connected. MM Paris as it will grow next turn.

(5) 858 AD: Say hi to Cordova!

(6) 861 AD: More scouting. Problem is, I don't want to move a king through Burgundian lands, as we will have difficulties getting him back. Maybe I should have left the kings at home and sent a warrior scouting instead - I'll do this now. Not enough thinking on my part...
Angers is micromanaged.

(7) 864 AD: Ghent expands borsers, and the Burgundian capital now has some fewer tiles to work. :p

(8) 867 AD: I rush the temple in Ampurias. Call me paranoid, but I would like to keep the few cities we have, and additionally, Ampurias would like to build a curragh as well.

(9) 870 AD: Paris is size 5 now and needs two MP units. Ampurias starts a curragh, could be changed to a worker instead.

(10) 873 AD: Bordeaux worker -> barracks. Boulogne curragh -> barracks. Clermont barracks -> warrior. We meet the English.

(11) 876 AD: We have discovered a new source of quarry...



(12) 879 AD: Paris granary -> settler. Orleans temple -> palace. Our curragh finds Norway. Because of a misclick, our warrior scout enters Burgundian territory.

(13) 882 AD: Ghent worker -> worker. Ampurias expands borders and puts Marseilles under pressure. Raise lux to 10% to keep Paris happy.

(14) 885 AD: Clermont warrior -> warrior. Germany and Sweden are contacted.

(15) 888 AD: Nothing special.


As I feared, the Palace might not be expensive enough to serve as a prebuild - in size 2 Orleans, it would be completed in 47 turns already! It could be changed to barracks, granary or something else at no shield loss, though.

Paris will produce a settler in one, and Angers in three turns. We barely have enough escort units and lack MP units, but this should change soon now that barracks are coming in, and Clermont is already on unit production.

No wars have broken out yet - no civilization has VPs yet.

Beware the wandering berzerks!

Roster:
Kylearan
Charis <- UP
Kabuki <- on deck
Ridgelake


-Kylearan
 
Not a bad turn Kylearan! A decent reign of building.

Between your comments on Ampurias flipping Marseilles and the temples I think you're *way* too concerned about flipping.

I definitely would have done the following differently:
- Rushing TWO temples for flip prevention??? Oh my, no! Yes, they have pressure, but they're not far from our capital and only had to 'last' enough turns to see the temple finish naturally. If you rushed like a turn or two for small cost, forget these comments, but the money spent on those will be very sorely needed indeed for purchasing techs. Look in the Germany thread at their inability to purchase and broker HBR. Not getting the two required techs or getting them too slow jeopardizes the HRE!
- If any temple needed to be rushed, it's Orleans - to get it going ASAP on the HRE. If we end up losing the wonder by two turns either due to being slow to get the tech or being a few turns later getting started on the prebuild, history will not be kind! ;)
- Let the king go! We can definitely afford to lose 1. If he makes it back or not isn't as relevant as the speed with which we can make contacts and drop the price for HBR. See the Kievan Rus thread for how effective kings are at scouting. I even sent out all three :p

Hopefully those items won't matter at all, but I did want to point those out for your consideration :)

"Got it!" :hammer:
Charis
 
Thanks for your comments, Charis. I felt a bit uneasy how to start with this scenario, and hope I haven't done too much damage. :p I hope it's just a different style of playing which won't do any harm. ;)

I haven't read about HBR brokering in any other middle age thread yet, so I didn't know it would be that difficult to buy. I have spent about 180 gold on temple rushing, but thought with our income (+17gpt in the screenshot) this would be only marginal - we shall see. The temple in Ghent I still feel was necessary: Directly adjacent to our future enemy's capital, it's both at high flip-risk and a very good base for attacking later, so I really feel we needed the culture there. I agree the temple in Ampurias wasn't equally necessary, but it has cost us "only" about four turns of income. If we later miss the tech by about 80 gold, :blush: :whipped:

I had played about 20 turns into this scenario as Germany a few days ago, to get a feel for it. Well, Wurzburg (I think) flipped away during these turns, so I'm not sure if I'm really too paranoid. ;)

Regarding a potential temple rushing in Orleans: I don't know when both HBR and castle building will be known, but even without rushing the temple, our prebuild will be done in 48 turns already - if Orleans would remain at size two, which it won't! So if I had rushed the temple there, I'm not sure the prebuild would have been sufficiently expensive. (Hm...although now I'm asking myself if the palace will become more expensive automatically when we found more cities?)

Anyway, we'll see what happens. I'm looking forward to the next set of turns! :hammer:

-Kylearan
 
Oh, and one more thing regarding scouting: It looks like in my other game with the Burgundians, the team seems to be of the opinion that scouting is overrated and not really that necessary. I disagree completey, but haven't said much on the subject there to see how things will turn out differently. Scouting was, by the way, another reason for me to rush the temple at Ampurias: To get a curragh built there sooner.

-Kylearan
 
Up in three games, just finished Cordova, now Franks, next Byzantines, wee!!

Tis 888 AD and the empire is quite young. Rulers are flush with the excitement
of exploration and building their kingdom. A young man, Charis the Hotdog is secretly
a deep admirer of Joan, and has somehow managed to undertake ruling her kingdom
while she is away on a great mission, something having to do with setting up a
Holy Roman Empire. In any case here are the chronicles of his reign.

With the prebuild underway and in good shape, here's what seems to be the key to our
success with our initial plan for HRE and quick knighthood -- to build a strong
economy, make contacts FAST so that when Horseback Riding becomes available, we must
buy it at any cost and broker it around to all other civilizations. Likewise Castle
Building which will expose our already known West Church. If we can accomplish this
and if we have some horses ready, the wars of exansion and the quest for glory
can occur with Knights, two techs before anyone else - and we'll turn on our neighbors
who would dare use Knights against us.

Vigilance in trading and exploring, building, and economy, are the goals for this reign.
Secondary goals include hookup of horses and iron, although we probably want about one
warrior per city for cheap MP and let the good units loose.

Settling? I like a spot E/NE of Clermont on river next to quarry, a hill-river spot
on edge of Pyrenes mtns, and the river coastal spot NW of Paris. So that's a minimum
of three settlers. Probably another on the hill between Bordeaux and Angers. One is
due from Paris this turn. There won't be many more from Paris, as it's production is
too good. Boulogne swaps to settler, but other queue choices seem good.

[0] 888 AD - We have 9 contacts, and so are missing 8. Those are: Rus, Fatamids,
Abbasids, Turks, Byzantines, Poland, Magyars, Bulgars. We need a southern ship,
and we need a wandering king for the non-coastal middle ones. Darn... that warrior
has gotten too far away, and we have no extra defenders AT ALL. We're stuck with
the warrior scout. Finally, I rush the curragh in Ampurias for faster contacts.
IBT - Orleans expands and iron is in range to hookup. We'll want some more warriors
first though.

[1] 891 - Paris settler heads for eastern quarry site. Wow, actually Paris is a four-
turn settler factory! Nevermind comments on stopping settling - since our war ambitions
are medium-long, not short term, more cities now, peacefully, is probably best.

[2] 894 - movin. IBT - Shoot, Burgundy founds Naples close to where my settler was
heading, beating him by two turns. Of course the AI founds OFF the river, ON the
uber forest tile, ruining the setup there 8-\ Burgundy gets added to my hit list!

[3] 897 - In fact, I'm going to cede that whole East coast to him and let him settle.
We'll capture them all later, nicely far from their capital. Did I say capture?
I meant "Annex for the good of the most Holy Roman Empire!"

[4] 900 - Lyons is founded on a hill bear Nantes, Bordeaux and Angers.

Burgundy has HBR! Our treasury of 104g+12gpt won't buy it. Anyone else? Germany,
so we're not talking a monopoly here. Also having it are England, Denmark, Norway,
Castille, even Celts. Sheesh. Missing it are Cordova(22g), Sweden(34g)
Here is where NOT having run into Poles, Magyars and Bulgars hurts. It's also too
bad that so many knew it on the first turn it was known. (And yes, I did check EVERY
civ last turn, no one had it) If we can't broker it, there's no rush to deal. We will
not have a ton more contacts any time soon at all, and we can get about 66g back if
we stretch for it now. Sliders down to zero, 104g+19gpt won't get it?! Ouch!
Commercial civs are Cordova, Fatamids, Abbasids, Rus, Turks. GAH! Precisely the ones
we don't know (except Cordova who lacks the tech) We need to make more contacts and hope
those last two can't buy in anywhere.

[5] 903 - Cordova came up with HBR. GAH! Must have been close to reseaching it himself,
as it would never sell for 22g. Swedes still lack it.

[6] 906 - We meet the Magyars, who naturally know how to ride horses.
Rheims is founded on the river to our SW. There's room for one more city, much
later, on the river hill 1 square S and 1 SW.

IBT - Sonofabiscuit! Bloody English land TWO settlers and two spears two squares
ahead of the settler on goto to his nice spot SW of Paris. That does it!!!
Time to turn ploughshares into swords! Add ENGLAND to the hit list of cities to smack
down and capture... er... annex for the Holy Empire! Hmm, if they don't settle right
where they land it will still fit the pattern and I have an alternate spot to take.
But if they do settle where they land, it will kill an uberforest and will once again
ruin a 'prudent' settling pattern. Anyone taking bets against this folly?

[7] 909 - Some cities turn to rax, and we head a worker toward the iron now. Enough
is enough. IBT - Sure enough, England founds Canterbury in a *ridiculous* spot.

[8] 912 - We meet the Fatamids. They have HBR of course. We meet Poland, who lacks HBR
and lacks ANY money to buy it. I found the city of Tours NW of Paris.
It's close to Canterbuy but that's their fault. I hope to raze not capture that
misfounded blight.

[9] 915 - Paris finishes a settler and vows never to produce another. It starts a spear.
Chatres is founded.

[10] 918 - An English settler pair has moved RIGHT NEXT to Paris! :eek:
The pure insult of this is too much to bear! We tell them they MUST withdraw.
They tell us basically "Yah, yah, we'll withdraw when we're ready.

That's it. I hope our next leader is ready for some action. Their answer is not
good enough. I declare war, and whack the pair. That nets a promotion to vet and
two workers, and our first 25 victory points :hammer:

A regular warr out of Angers (what an appropriate name) roars out of the city along
the road and slices open a wandering and unsuspecting English warrior. He promotes.

The "Buying" season for HBR has come and gone. We must obtain it or Castle Building
by Pointy stick! We can't afford to pay for both techs in our HRE timeframe.
England will pay us HBR, and Burgundy will (imho) cough up Castle Building.

Castille and Cordoba are parading settlers in our land too. It's VERY tempting
to hit them as well, but the warrior on spear odds are too poor. If you like that
idea, bring in a sword to do the duty. I'm sending down free swords from the North
down to the scene of the action.

Notes
- We need just one more settler, which Bordeaux is working on, to settle the spot
next to the wheat, next to Canterbury, once we autoraze it. No more from Paris,
which needs to climb up to 15spt and start spitting out swords for our pre-Knight
campaigns. England is the first such war. I would highly recommend whacking any
Celtic, Cordoba or Castille settler pairs if you can get a sword or two into position
to attack all troops in our land at once.
- The gold-for-tech plan is now *scrapped*. Use gold for vet warrior upgrades and
if needed, a small rax rush. Those swords will 'buy' our next two techs.
- I would also highly recommend war with Burgundy next. We can trim them down and make
them weaker for when we get our Knights, plus raze their capital which is putting
tremendous pressure on Ghent, and make them pay for settling in OUR lands!

Our look at the terrain...



RBC13F Franks 918AD

Roster
Kylearan
Charis
Kabuki <-- UP
Ridgelake <-- ON Deck

Good luck! Kabuki, it's up to you to lay down the smack!
Charis
 
Thanks... I think...

I see I'm being tossed in at the deep end, and this time without Zerks...

Let me see if I got this right:

First I beat the English off our continent for HBR.
Then I mop up any naste settlerses on our continent.
And then I layeth the smacketh down on Burgundy? At this point we keep up the skeer until Castle building is in...

And btw. where is our HRE prebuild? Orleans I assume?

Edit: Need answer to this right away - where is the settler in south east of Orleans heading?

Got it. Will play tonight, unless I need tac advice in which case I'll hold until tomorrow.
 
Oops.... there are some folks who would take this particular kind of handoff position and lick their chops like a dog with no food in a week with a bone waved in front of his nose, and others who hear the rumblings of a madman and say "you expect me to do WHAT? With *this* military? You're daft man, you're DAFT!" :hammer:

- English: raze the blight known as Canterbury and punish the Enlgish for their heinous crime known as "forest arson". With the Bordeaux settler, then found a site right next to the ruins, also next to the wheat. Kill any other English units who are around and/or land. This may NOT be enough pain to get HBR, but take whatever discount you get, paying more in gpt than in cash.

- Other nations' settlers: if you get a chance to attack at LEAST two settler pairs of either Castille or Cordova on low ground with swords, do it - the pain, the setback of two settler losses and two spears, and the gain of four workers will be worth the war. Alas, this will not get us even close to enough to demand Castle Building, even if they have it. So this is optional, and after a night's sleep, I would not be prone to do this. Last night I was absorbed in the game and, frankly, in utter dismay at the lack of respect our neighbors were showing glorious France, and was ready to declare war on every nation found in our land. Celts too for that matter. But really, it won't help us much.

- Burgundy. After England war is done (and any other Cordova/Castille war, if any), it's time for Burgundy. Make peace for HBR discount, gather ALL free swords at Ghent, declare war honorably, then step up next to Aix-de-Chapellewhatever. Raze that blight for the glory of Ghent. Then capture (? or raze) two more cities, and *whenever they get Castle Building* the war is to end - for that tech. ("Keep up the skeer" as you say :p ) This will probably be straight up, or even them paying more - otherwise give them more pain.
A stack of 8 swords can surely do this.

- The settler - ah good question, he was heading exactly where he is sitting now. He is a forward base against Bazel, and on the river, and a decent distance from Orleans. Before war with Burgundy he'll want a spear or two. In fact, if you expect such war quickly and are nervous, he could turn around as it will be hard to defend in a war with Burgundy - although this wouldn't be my choice - I would instead get 3-4 more swords there and prepare it as another mini-SoD.

- HRE - Oh my yes, Orleans. It's on high food low shields to actually lengthen the prebuild. I think at around size 8 when switched to high shields will be almost 20spt and we will not have a ton of turns left for the prebuild. Obviously, never let the palace 'complete' there.

Any other questions? Thoughts from teammates?
Charis
 
Thanks Charis the extra info helps me quite a lot, although oddly enough my reasoning ran really close to yours and last night I was almost prepared to hit the Danes... I'm really glad I slept on this one...

As I'll be busy off the computer for a while I'll ask some more Qs to clear up one or two more things:

Burgundy. After England war is done (and any other Cordova/Castille war, if any), it's time for Burgundy. Make peace for HBR discount, gather ALL free swords at Ghent, declare war honorably, then step up next to Aix-de-Chapellewhatever. Raze that blight for the glory of Ghent. Then capture (? or raze) two more cities, and *whenever they get Castle Building* the war is to end - for that tech. ("Keep up the skeer" as you say :p ) This will probably be straight up, or even them paying more - otherwise give them more pain.

If you're thinking eight swords over two turns and we don't mind loosing some of them, eight is fine. I just took out Chippenham with Zerks last night as the Norwegians and they had eight defenders. I figure I'll gab an embassy with them to check out their defence once my prep is shaping up. In conjunction with that I assume the warrior builds are mostly for upgrades?

I assume here that our two first targets are Aix-de-Chapelles and the Harbor on the North Sea. After that it's just gravy.

The settler - ah good question, he was heading exactly where he is sitting now. He is a forward base against Bazel, and on the river, and a decent distance from Orleans. Before war with Burgundy he'll want a spear or two. In fact, if you expect such war quickly and are nervous, he could turn around as it will be hard to defend in a war with Burgundy - although this wouldn't be my choice - I would instead get 3-4 more swords there and prepare it as another mini-SoD.

Ok, that is what I though, it looked very in theme with the rest of your moves. Three problems, one it is poaching from Orleans, (something we can actually mm out, so not so bad), two it is founding on a bg tile and three it is on the border (the last being a good/bad thing depending on war timing). Another consideration is that the Bordeaux settler does not arrive at the wheat for another 13 turns (5 production/8move) which means troops will be cooped up watching/defending that spot until it arrives. Turning the Southern settler around will net us it a bit faster I believe and we can send the Bordwaux settler to its location with a spear produced elsewhere. Comments?
 
Top Bottom