A Tough Tiny Demigod

560AD:
Found St. L. Now I can form the 3rd. Run 3 knights over and fill it. Send it towards SF to attack Bolu. I do not ping the two boats from Shaka as I want them to drop their troops to leader fish.

580AD:
LB dies attacking St l, during the IBT.
3rd kills two spears and razes Bolu for 2 slaves.
kill 2 knights by St L.

IBT:
Crusader dies on St L.
Henry has 2 units walk onto Miami land.

590AD:
Dial up my man Henry and ask him to leave. He takes umbridge and declares.
Kill 2 mdi, with the knight going elite. It is exposed to a LB on the IBT, but it is on a hill.
Kill two LB next to St L.
We are at war with all now.

IBT:
A little white knukle action. LB drops eK to 1HP next to Miami.
4 LB hit the 1st and it goes to around 5HP.

600AD:
nada

IBT:
2 knights attack St L and does no damage at all, so the LB decided not to even attack.

610AD:
2nd comes over to pitch in and we kill 3 knights.
Found Detroit.

IBT:
3 LB die on St L, the 4th elects to sit it out.
Shaka lands a horse by NYC.

620AD:
mdi retreats the pinged horse and eK kills it.

IBT:
knight dies at St L.

630AD:
Kill Crusader near St L.

IBT:
3 LB die at St L, a fourth one sits it out.

640AD:
Horse-3 kills spear and makes its second leader. Now named Horse-3/4. It is the only horse I had and spent the money to upgrade.
Knight kills pike, both were near Buffalo.
Rush Pentagon in Philly.

650AD:
No attacks now at St L as the 1st adds a knight. Osman pulls units back.

660AD:
Start on Chem at 100%, but will have to drop it, unless I get someone to give me gold or a tech. May decide to go lone sci and put up more troops, have to see how the turn goes. I have salt, so can make a few muskets.

Kill 2 Osman knight by St L.
Kill 3 of Henry's mdi next to Miami.

Kill Osman LB next to Riza.

3rd kills 2 pike in Kafa.

IBT:
I think it was just 1 LB died attacking St L.

670AD:
3rd kills a pike and razed Kafa for 33 gold and 4 slaves. A treb ran out on the IBT.

IBT:
Henry executes 4 MDI at Miami, doing little damge and giving a promotion to someone.
Osman also sent 2 LB to die on St L.

680AD:
2nd kills 2 spears in Riza and razed it for 25 gold, 1 slave and a treb. I fire the treb upon a LB.
Kill crusader and 2 knight at St l.
Kill a musket, mdi and 2 LB at Miami. knight and an mdi go elite. I do not attack the last LB as there is no road and it is a hill, so I could not get back inside.
Another LB on a mountain, not attacking him either. Miami is all Henry so far, no Shaka troops so far. Settler enroute to grab wines next to where Riza was located. It was on a hill, but I want to clear a jungle with the settler and it would be next to a river and the wines.

Another settler in place under the 3rd near the old Kafa site.

IBT:
LB dies at Miami.

690AD:
Found New Orleans near Detriot and the old Kafa site.

IBT:
MDI dies at Miami.
LB drops musket to 1HP at St L.

700AD:
Kill 2 knights by St L.

IBT:
mdi dies at Miami.
LB dies at St L.

710AD:
Found Balitmore.
Kill a LB and a knight by St L. Get a leader, will hold as I have 15 towns.
I guess henry does not have horses as I do not recall any knights.

720AD:
3rd kills a LB and 2 spears in Zongugak and razed it for 35 gold. A treb abd 2 slaves.

IBT:
LB dies at ST. L.
MDI dies at Miami.

730AD:
A little rough near Miami, with a knight retreating from a spear. Then an MDI died, then another MDI goes to 1HP and finally kills it.

Got rough on Osman at a few places. Kill knigh and Crusader near St L.
Kill another knight by Buffalo. 1st and 2nd take out Edrine for 53 gold, 4 or 5 slaves. Killing 3 pikes and a LB. It had the KT.

I see there actually is two LB stil by St L so I kill one. Do not want to end up stuck in the jungle, so leave the other. Try a knight on a spear near Houston, but it retreats so I decide to let that be.

740AD:
Get a few pings and finally kill that spear.

IBT:
Henry wants peace and is willing to give me Lit, so I take it. Shaka lands a horse and an impi by Detriot.

750AD:
I note Henry did not remove a couple of units. They are not an issue so for now I will say nothing. Two knights clear out Shaka's troops by Det.

IBT:
That was enough for Shaka to ask for peace, so I take 40 gold and let him slide.

760AD:
Kill 2 LB near St L.
2nd kills a knight as it heads for Konya.
Settler in place. Make some scientist.

770AD:
Ask Henry to leave and get a DOW, I needed some happy in a few places. Chem drops to 2 turns. Did not pay attention, so I do not know if others now know Chem or not. It went from 6 to 2. I did disband to finish a lib as well. A lib was finished in DC with the shields from the knight to jump start it.
Found Denver.
Form 4th and fill it. I hated to add in the twice leader generating unit though.

2nd kills a spear and LB to raze Konya for iirc 39 gold, treb and 4 slaves.
I have not run into any muskets from Osman that I recall. Must not have salt.
I can't see all his tiles, but no salt in the ones I do see, which is most of them.

IBT:
Henry sends an mdi to die in Miami.

780AD:
3rd kills 3 spears and razed Antalya for 78 gold, treb and 4 slaves.

IBT:
Whoops though two slaves were safe, but Osman sent a knight and claimed them. Then like a clever fellow, he sends them towards NO, where I can take them back.
Henry send 3 units to die at Miami, think they were all MDI.
Osman wants peace after grabbing my slaves, not today at the instructor says in Ironfist training center.

790AD:
Lets see, what happened. 4th killed a pike and a LB and razed Salanika for around 57 gold and 3 slaves. We kill a knight and 2 LB around Denver and capture back the 2 slaves.
Started Metal in 14.
Kill a spear around Baltimore.
3rd kills two pikes in Denizliand razed it for 79 I think.

IBT:
Henry sends a LB at Miami.

800AD:
Found Cincinnati.
Kill a pike and a LB and raze Iznik for around 79 gold and 2 slaves.
A knight kills a skulking LB nearby.

IBT:
Osman sent a knight to get one of the knights and it dies and we get another elite.

810AD:
nada

820AD:
Found Dallas on wines, just need to complete the road to Buffalo.
3 armies converging on Istanbul now.
Kill a spear near Baltimore.
Kill 2 pikes enroute to Istanbul.

Kill an P-mdi at Miami.
Kill a P-Musket at Chi, but lost a knight.

830AD:
1st kills a knight next Istanbul and a Pike in Istanbul.
3rd kills 2 pikes in Istanbul.
4th kills a pike and LB and captures it along with a treb. It has ToA, Sistine and the Oracle.

Istanbulk is connected to Dallas so we now have Silks online.

Knight kills P-mdi and goes elite near Chi.
eKnight kills P-mdi at Miami.
MDI dies on eMDI and 4/5 knight retreats from it.

IBT:
LB dies at Miami.

840AD:
ToA still works for me as I do not have Ed, so I will get border pops in about 4 turns.
Found Memphis near Denver.

IBT:
2 P-LB die at Miami.

850AD:
4th kills a knight near Istanbul.

IBT:
P-mdi dies at Miami.
P-LB dies, drops musket to 1hp.

860AD:
Two elite knights kill P-mdi at Miami and vK kills a LB.
knight kills O-spear near Houston.
1st kills a pike and LB and razed Sinop for a treb and 2 slave, missed the gold.
I just noticed I did not show Aydin being razed. Must be time to stop as I am getting punchy again (1Am is all it is?). Anyway I only see three towns for Osman. I have 2 settlers in place and one I rushed with a disbands in Istandbul. I am not sure how much more time I want to sink into this game as it clearly won now.

870AD:
Found Los Angeles.
Found Cleveland.
Kill 3 pikes and raze Bursa for 3 slaves. I am not sure, if I got gold or not. Looked at CAII and they still have over 800 gold, so I must have gotten aroun 70-80.
Kill a knight not far from LA.

880AD:
What, got a request to upgrade the palace? It must be tied into all the border pops that I got from the ToA. Whoops I used the Ottoman settler to found KC, but I did not notice it was next to a volcano. Can you say rookie?

eKnight went red and then get a leader on a musket by Houston. Going to have to put DC back to making knights to keep up. Form 5th.

kill 2 pikes and a spear in Izmit. Get a treb capturing the town.
Two eKnigths kill P-mdi at Miami.

890AD:
I forgot that Izmit had the Lighthouse.

900AD:
Found San Diego and Richmond.
4th kills P-mdi and P-LB near Houston.
2nd did not need help from the 3rd as it kills 2 pikes and captures Bingol for nearly 300 gold and a slave.

Going to start on Henry as soon as I can get armies there. Osman is OCC afaik.

910AD:
start MT in 12. Filled 5th.
May rush a couple of the settler builds, not sure if it is worth it.

Not sure, if I mentioned that wines are online now, so we have 3 lux connected. Wines, Spice and Silk.

920AD:
Rushed 2 settlers for 108 each.
Kill mdi with an army in the swamps heading to Sao.
eKnight kills 3/4 musket by Miami.
5th kills pike and a spear and razed Sao Paulo for 3 slaves. Missed gold again. Looks like Henry is broke. Osman has over 900.

930AD:
kill 3 mdi, 3rd got 2 near Tugela and 2nd got one close to Bingol.

950AD:
kill 2 LB and an MDI with armies. One enroute to Kirklarli, Guarda and Alcaer do Sal.

960AD:
The two settlers found Phoenix and Las Vegas.
5th kills a spear near do Sal.
3rd kills two spears and autorazed Kirklareli for nearly 1300 gold. I disband the slave.
Also I saw a LB go off the map and Osman is gone.

4th killed a musket and razed Guarda for 3 slaves.
I rush 2 more settlers as I have plenty of cash now.
29 towns.

970AD:
5th kills two spears and a LB and captures do Sal and 1 slave and 3 gold. I put the lone pop as a beakerhead. As best as I can tell from CAII, Shaka is down Metal and both have Republic and Theology. I do not know, if they have more. I have about 1800 gold. 30 towns and 2 settlers heading for sites and third will pop out next turn.

That will fill all land south of Tugela and west of Tugela lake. Henry has sent boats from Miami to Tugela the long way around, but did nothing with them. Shaka has a galley parked forever by Detroit. I would probably demand he leave to get a war, after the settler found towns.

I could send the 2nd to take down Tugela then. I have left the 1st back at the new site north of Izmit. This was done to defend any landings, but the boats moved on. The 1st is not really needed, unless you wanted to speed things up. Better to just be safe.

The game is really over anyway. Nothing they can do about it. I could just keep grinding down towns and founding a new from time to time. My support cost are low and I could lower it with some more disbands as several core towns have 3 units in them.

I left them to give MP happy, but the core now has markets and 3 luxs and are fine with the war happy from Henry. Not to mention the free temples.

980AD:
Found Albuquerque.

990AD:
NY just finished its market, so I was not quite right about the core.
4th kills LB heading for Luanda. 3rd kills mdi next to 4th.
Shaka went crying home when ask to leave.

1000AD:
Found Portland and Minneapolis.

1010AD:
3rd/4th each kill a musket and a LB and raze Luanda for 19 gold and a slave. I disband slave.

1020AD:
I have an army on each approach to deal with any units that come towards the empire. MT on the IBT.

1030AD:
5th whacks a LB coming our way. Traded Metal to Shaka as it was known to Henry anyway. Start Ed.

IBT:
Henry lands a lone mDI near Phoenix.

1040AD:
Lets see, 5th kills 3 mdi close to Castelo.
Kill the landing mdi.
3rd and 4th raze Catelo Branco killing two muskets, mdi and LB. Disband 3 slaves.
84 gold to rush one more settler and that is enough. Going to send it to the hill near the volcano to choke that entry.

Nope, going to send it to a hil next to gems. Block there and get gems, thats the ticket.

1060AD:
Found Pittsburg. Finally go ahead and upgrade knights for 300.
Use 3/4 and 5th to kill 5 muskets in Lisbon, but still more there.

1070AD:
5th (I think) killed 2 muskets and razed Lisbon. It had Copes, 5 slaves.
4th kills 2 mdi nearby. Upgrade few more knights that had to move to a rax.

IBT:
Shaka demands Iron, no way. DoW, thank you.

1080AD:
Ed and start on Astro.

1090AD:
1st starts working on Zulu units, with the aid of 5 cavs and 2 mdi. Killing a bunch of AC/horses and impi.
2nd starts working on Tugela and kills an AC and a LB.

1100AD:
2nd kills horse and caputres Tugela as it is cut off from their homeland.
1st and the crew finish off 6 more junk units and I see no Zulu in the area.
5th kills musket in Evora and 4th kills a musket and a LB and razed it for 15 gold.

Henry has 4 towns I can see and one obvious one I cannot see. Shaka has maybe six. I can only see part of one.

1110AD:
4th kills MDI enroute to Sagres.
3rd kills 2 muskets and razed Sagres for 21 gold and 2 slave, which I disband. I have not been paying much attention to improvements. I just got the core mines down and took it easy. Cleared a lot of jungle and some swamps as long as it is safe. Leo was in that town BTW.

I have 66% of pop and 54% of land. Do not intend to make any settlers though. I am only 15-20 points from Henry in score now. Osman was way out in front. He actually had about what Shaka and I combined had. Even dead, he is still in first place.

1120AD:
Found (missed the towns name I see) as the settler finally arrives. Gems onliine and the block is in place. I see I do need one more town between Oakland and Miami to give vision in that area. Just to prevent any settlers being dropped off.

A cav kills a lone impi that was able to get past the choke, before it closed.
5th finds an AC not far from Oakland.

1130AD:
Have to delay advances on Henry to whack 6 AC. I have added the 1st to the front to help Oakland. It has a couple of elite muskets and I am sending up another musket and 2 cavs and a treb. I see a few more Zulu units heading Oaklands way and I do not want to keep the 3 knight armies around to deal with incoming. The 4th also killed P-LB.

1140AD:
5th runs over LB enroute to a town I cannot see the name.
3rd kills musket in Oporto.
4th kills musket and LB and we capture it. I was all set to raze it, but it has the GLB. I wil hold for a turn and see if I can get anything, but realized I do know Ed. I had forgot that, so I abandon it.

I also check to see what happened to the two impi going towards Oakland, but they are gone? I see Oporto has furs and the next town has Incense, oh well.

1150AD:
I see what happened to them. It was only one impi and a LB. They move to a tile in the fog and now are next to Oakland. 1st kills impi. Cav kills the archer, not LB. Did I mention I am old?

3rd kills musket and LB and razed Lagos, 47 gold?
3rd kills a LB standing next to the town for good measure.

1160AD:
I forgot to mention I started Banking last turn. I also forgot to mention I saw at least one boat in Lagos. Settler get to spot and founds Orlando.
4th kills musket in Emerita.
3rd does the same.
4th kills LB and razes the place. Disband 3 slaves. Henry is OCC and 5th is parked next to that town.

IBT:
Henry drops a lone mdi near Las Vegas.

1170AD:
I was about to take out the last town and I realized I had to check the settings. What a lame setting. Respawn is on. I move three armies out to bust fog and then take down Comibra. Yep goodbye Henry. Why would anyone turn that on?

Kill impi and LB next to Oakland. 1st heads back to sit on gems, but not enough movement. The landing party goes of the map. Shaka knows MT, but has neither salt nor horses and I do not even see any in the open for him to get.

1190AD:
1st kills impi.

1200AD:
3rd kills LB near Intombe.
It seems I wasted money upgrading just one treb as it missed. Cav kills the LB at Oakland.

1210AD:
Yeah the cannon hit the LB. Cav kills it.
4th kills LB next to Intombe.
3rd and 5th kill muskets in Intombe.

1220AD:
I forget which army did what, but one killed a musket and another killed an Impi and I capture Intombe. The other army killed a LB and blocks the access to the rear. I see that the MA is getting nearly finished. I am on Physics I think I just started it this turn due in 5. I wanted to use Intombe to block any units moving without a boat. It also gives me dyes as it came with a harbor.

1240AD:
I am sending the other two armies to cover Intombe, so I can press on. Moved two cavs that way as well.

1250AD:
4th kills 2 muskets and razed Ulundi.

1255AD:
2 cavs and the 3rd kill 3 LB.

1260AD:
MA done, ho hum. Starts a uni for giggles.
Start on ToG in 9 turns.

3rd kills 2 musket in a town I cannot spell and razed it.
1st kills a LB.

1270AD:
4th kills LB near Zimbabwe,
5th kills musket in Zim.

1275AD:
4th kills musket in Zim.
I run the 5th to red thinking I could take the town, killing 2 impi.
3rd kills 3 muskets and razes Bampedi.

Kill a landing party of Shaka's (impi and LB near Istabul).

1280AD:
4th kills 2 impi's and razes Zim. Use the 6 slaves to make a road under them. Will disband next turn and the trebs as well. Stack 5th and cover with 2nd. They are in poor shape. 1st kills LB heading to Intombe.

1295AD:
About to rollup on the last town, calling it game.

I forgot to add the pix, so here:

Last pics:

how come nobody showed any reaction to Buttercups extremely rude behaviour? ok, i will.

@ Buttercup - even if you do not agree with Spoonwood´s comments, why do you believe it would be necessary, or even acceptable, to use vulgar words on him?

he later proved that he was right, but this is not the point. he had tried to help you with his advice and even played that turns for you, and for sure he deserved your respect for that, even if you should be unable to understand the specific techniques he used due to the missing playing skills. apparently your question originally held that you tried to improve those.

t_x

VMXA said:

I met the Sultan earlier and made no trades and he still is not willing to trade. I recently met Henry and I did trade Mason for Pottery. Not a good trade, but at DG you best not sit on a tech or it will be worth nothing or they may demand it.

I have a second town up and a road to it. I did not make a granary as I only recently got the tech.

Click to expand...

Huh? America is expansionist, and I know I started with Pottery in my game. Did you edit the starting techs?

@Templar_X Thanks for that.

Jeez, this forum seems frozen in time: it's been a year since I last looked in, and the first thing I see is Spoonwood still being disrespected by people not fit to lace his boots.

His forbearance is remarkable.

Buttercup said:

Ohhhhhh... do feck off.

Click to expand...

I'd say a public apologize is necessary.
Unless, of course, you're just a troll.

Bucephalus said:

. . . .His forbearance is remarkable.

Click to expand...

As is his willingness to continue to try to help, in spite of the disrespect.

Spoonwood said:

Huh? America is expansionist, and I know I started with Pottery in my game. Did you edit the starting techs?

Click to expand...

Nope, didn't think you can do that. I just wrote down the wrong trade is all. I play a turn and then write what I think is worth noting. Some times I misremember, sorry for getting a bit senile. Plus I was trying to watch the State of the League at the time, so it is there fault.

I know I put down stuff that is not always correct, but regrettably I make mistakes. Going be 66 in Jan and do lose track of what just occurred from time to time.

I go back over the logs a few days later and cannot always make sense of what I noted. It is the best I can do, so either forgive me or shot me. Your call.

If you could change the traits of a civ in a save, what would be the point?

Ah, wonderful, I now know how to beat this map at Demigod level, this is excellent and I thank you both for playing and showing me the way!

First things first, however.

templar_x :

he later proved that he was right, but this is not the point.

Click to expand...

Yes... that was the point entirely...

even if you do not agree with Spoonwood´s comments

Click to expand...

The agreement or disagreement with them was neither here nor there, it was the method of delivery - play, then quit, then waffle pompostuous nonsense, then, finally, like he was being winched from pizza, he actually played the game. Maybe next time he will play the game then waffle pompostuous nonsense.

he had tried to help you with his advice

Click to expand...

No. And I will explain why in my thanks section.

Bucephalus:

Jeez, this forum seems frozen in time: it's been a year since I last looked in, and the first thing I see is Spoonwood still being disrespected by people not fit to lace his boots.

His forbearance is remarkable.

Click to expand...

This suggests far more than I ever could. Thanks for reminding us that it is habit/problem rather than an exception

tR1cKy:

I'd say a public apologize is necessary.
Unless, of course, you're just a troll.

Click to expand...

You mean a public 'apology' don't you. And... no... I think the thread worked out fine in the end, once he actually played the game... perhaps he would like to apologise to me...? Is it possible for you to see that angle? Or shall we view your one solitary, out of context, troll-like, contribution as some kind of judicial verdict?


Right, that's the 'meddlers' out the way, let's get down to the game!


I've noticed on this forum that a lot of people like to give 'tactical' advice. However, judging by both these games from both spoonwood and vmxa, one can discern one very important fact. I believe it is this fact which is the Primary advice, and it is this fact which neither will ever mention as their Primary piece of advice.

From both games, both players had one Primary objective - to generate Armies.

In both screenshots and write-ups, there is a huge amount of detail surrounding when Units attack, whether they go Elite and then much excitement when an Elite generates... an Army.

All this who-haring about what you build, how many cities you build, which government you have, which route you take through the techs and what Wonders you build is all nonsense advice. They are all perspective based routines that each player has learned to win with. Each area of advice in this respect is valid and each makes logical sense to the individual using them, but none are 'defacto' advice.

'Defacto' advice would simply be 'To do everything possible to generate Armies'.

spoonwood did 'hint' at this at one point. He mentioned that Catapults can help generate Armies, as they weaken the enemy Unit and therefore allow your attacking Unit more strikes before it runs low on Hit Points and has to rest for a turn or two. This therefore speeds up the production of, firstly, Elites and then, naturally, Armies.

Also, I notice vmxa likes to wrap his contortions around a bowl of pomposity and, again, makes much more sense when watching the play than the mouth.

And both were playing the same game, in a completely different way. Trying to find ways to turn Units into Leaders.

Tech also plays a part, as there's not much point fielding Armies of Warriors against Pikemen or Armies of Horsemen against Riflemen, so a certain level of tech has to be maintained and, again, this was something both made great mention of. In neither case, however, was the priority to actually learn the techs, but rather find ways to get them for free. Again, this renders one's mechanics of town management as fairly pointless - not entirely pointless, just 'fairly' pointless - in the grand scheme of finding the 'win' scenario.

Basically, in order to find a 'win' scenario, one has to keep at a 'certain' level of tech and try to generate Armies as much as possible until one has enough to barge all over the AI civs who don't make Armies and very rarely attack them.

I suspect this is why vmxa wrote:

I got part way into the game and was sort of agreeing with Buttercup that it was a tough map. Later I starting rethinking that. ...in the end I would not call this a tough map and the game played with little strain at all.

Click to expand...

Because when you have no Armies or just one Army things to tend to appear a bit tougher in civ3, but once you have 3 or 4 then it's really amazing how easy it all feels!

And I would like to thank you both for showing me this in stark light. Prior to the past couple of days I always though Army generation was just something that happened when one fought a lot and got lucky with some Elites. I hadn't realised before the last couple of days that they are the Primary human manipulation to win with consummate ease and should be the players No.1 priority.

Only yesterday, on a new Huge Regent, I put the Catapult supported Units method into operation and generated three Armies with Ancient Cavalry. It's a really nice feeling you know you've won the game by 50BC on a Huge map while only possessing 8% of the world's surface

So, thanks guys, you showed me!

Buttercup said:

Bucephalus:

This suggests far more than I ever could. Thanks for reminding us that it is habit/problem rather than an exception

Click to expand...

No, it's more a reflection of the kind of poisonous little trolls which this forum sometimes attracts: weasly little nobodies, who hide safely behind their monitors while they spew out vitriolic insults to their betters.

Before you dismiss what Spoonwood has to say, I suggest you take a look at the HOF tables; he is one of the finest players ever to play this game, and if you had an ounce of humility, you would show some gratitude that he had the good grace to share his hard-earned knowledge with someone as ill-mannered and disrespectful as you.

Buttercup said:

tR1cKy:

You mean a public 'apology' don't you. And... no... I think the thread worked out fine in the end, once he actually played the game... perhaps he would like to apologise to me...? Is it possible for you to see that angle? Or shall we view your one solitary, out of context, troll-like, contribution as some kind of judicial verdict?

Click to expand...

Of course i meant apology. Alas, English is not my native language, therefore i am prone to the occasional spelling error. Thanks for pointing it out.

Apart from that, from your response i should deduce that it's perfectly ok, for you, to insult at will people who spend some of their free time to give you the advice you asked for, just because you happen to disagree with them. And maybe, after getting insulted, they should also apologize you for having wasted your time reading their "horse manure" (your words).

Well, probably you're such a good player that you do not need advice at all... i wonder how you would fare on one of the GotM competitions. Game 117 is out, care to give me a taste of your skills?

Oh, and BTW, who are those 'we' you are referring to? You and yourself?

tR1cKy & Bucephalus - if you aint playin' The Game, kindly feck off

Buttercup said:

tR1cKy & Bucephalus - if you aint playin' The Game, kindly feck off

Click to expand...

Actually, i didn't expect anything better from such a "person".
All right, have fun sitting in your cave

Buttercup said:

tR1cKy & Bucephalus - if you aint playin' The Game, kindly feck off

Click to expand...

Wow, what a quick-witted riposte.

You really are an immature little tosser, aren't you? Does mummy know you're on the internet?

vmxa said:

Nope, didn't think you can do that. I just wrote down the wrong trade is all. I play a turn and then write what I think is worth noting. Some times I misremember, sorry for getting a bit senile. Plus I was trying to watch the State of the League at the time, so it is there fault.

I know I put down stuff that is not always correct, but regrettably I make mistakes. Going be 66 in Jan and do lose track of what just occurred from time to time.

I go back over the logs a few days later and cannot always make sense of what I noted. It is the best I can do, so either forgive me or shot me. Your call.

If you could change the traits of a civ in a save, what would be the point?

Click to expand...

It's no problem VMXA. I might have overreacted there, and I'll apologize for that. I just thought of that, because the XOTM competitions have saves such that you either negate a tribe's trait, or they still have the trait, but miss one of the starting techs. I'd have to check the editor to see if this doing this isn't all that hard.

Not a problem, what is really funny is that I actually talked about not having granary to build, which I did have. I just never built any and by the time wrote it I had convinced myself I did not have them. Now that is funny.

Buttercup said:

The agreement or disagreement with them was neither here nor there, it was the method of delivery - play, then quit, then waffle pompostuous nonsense, then, finally, like he was being winched from pizza, he actually played the game.

Click to expand...

But, I was NOT waffling nonsense, and I've now demonstrated that I wasn't. You've even basically agreed to this, by pointing out that my situation looked dire beyond dire, or however you put it, and then seeing that it wasn't.

Buttercup said:

Basically, in order to find a 'win' scenario, one has to keep at a 'certain' level of tech and try to generate Armies as much as possible until one has enough to barge all over the AI civs who don't make Armies and very rarely attack them.

Click to expand...

Nope. Do you want me to dredge up old saves of mine (I think I can find a save of Buce's also where he hasn't fought a single war and won on Deity... and people have won on Sid this way also) where I haven't fought a single war and won on Deity via a spaceship launch? So why didn't I try and play that way instead?

1. The AIs seem more likely to attack you on a tiny map than say a standard or large map.

2. The capital site (so long as one founds in place) once developed has at least 10 shields per turn from size 5-6, and 10 turn growth with a granary. That gives you 7 turns NOT training a settler to spend 70 shields. So, as I put out settlers, I basically put out 2 military units per settler. Thus, I knew I would have a slew of unit support going on once I got to The Republic, which makes research more difficult. Therefore, playing more aggressively fit the start and the tribe (America doesn't have cheap libraries), in my opinion, better, since you'll have a fair amount of military around. VMXA didn't do this, and didn't need to. But, I think he'll agree that this might have helped him win earlier in terms of finish date, had he chosen to do so, and actually wanted to finish earlier... neither of which seem to suit his playing style in general (nor should it... this is only a point about what sort of potential the game has).

Also, people in general seem to prefer military victories, and on top of this, I took Code of Laws as my free tech instead of Literature from Philosophy.

On top of all this, I feel quite confident in saying that this map, and many others, come as winnable without any armies at all via conquest/domination. One could have taken plenty of towns and won this game using artillery-type units and stacks of units... it just would have taken longer.

That all said, I will assert that generating and producing armies (this game wasn't so good of an example of this, though I did buy a few, and disbanded my cannons/trebuchets to help train some armies also/make buying armies less expensive), may come as the most helpful tip to winning easily at higher levels if you want to play a military type game.

Buttercup said:

All this who-haring about what you build, how many cities you build, which government you have, which route you take through the techs and what Wonders you build is all nonsense advice. They are all perspective based routines that each player has learned to win with. Each area of advice in this respect is valid and each makes logical sense to the individual using them, but none are 'defacto' advice.

Click to expand...

No, it's NOT nonsense advice. If you want to play a diplomatic game to win as fast as you can on the map you have at hand, you want to put yourself in a good tech position early, and get your research up. What you build, how many cities you build, which route you take the through the tech tree, which wonders you build, and which government you have DOES make a difference. This also applies for a spaceship game, or a 20k game. On top of all this, for each army you need to have at least 4 cities. So, how many cities you build makes a difference. Also, do you know the easiest method to generate armies? Once you have the Military Academy, you can short-rush a worker for 80 gold, and then buy an army for 1560 gold more. But, how do you get cash to do that? Well, how much money you have depends in large measure on how much you make in taxes, how much you get in gold from the AIs, and how much your expenses cost. So, how do you maximize your cash? In general, you use a good number of tiles, possibly sell tech to the AIs (which comes from which route you take through the techs), put in marketplaces in cities, and run a Republic government. This doesn't even go into disconnect-reconnect tactics, which also depend on having a strong economy.

Bucephalus said:

Wow, what a quick-witted riposte.

You really are an immature little tosser, aren't you? Does mummy know you're on the internet?

Click to expand...

Hey Buce! Good to see you around here! I have to say, I always end up smiling and laughing with that English sense of humor of yours!

Spoonwood said:

It's no problem VMXA. I might have overreacted there, and I'll apologize for that. I just thought of that, because the XOTM competitions have saves such that you either negate a tribe's trait, or they still have the trait, but miss one of the starting techs. I'd have to check the editor to see if this doing this isn't all that hard.

Click to expand...

Well, in PTW and Vanilla there is the option "Allow Civ-Specific Abilities" on the game setup screen along all those "Allow this-and-that VC". It is not there in C3C though. You'd probably have to use the editor.