CoS Forum Poll Procedure change.

In the CoS, it says nothing about how a policy post should be put foward by an elected member. As it stands now, the FA, or Trade(this has nothing to do with them) Ministers may post a poll, and the first post may be worded to their liking and very lopsided. My proposal is that we add something to the CoS Forum Poll Procedure that reads something like this.

6. All polls writen by an elected member that concers major policy, must not be biased. The author may post their opinion later.
i. Major policy constitutes anything to do with: GL, Wonders, City placement, Trades, Slider settings etc...

We can deal with what constitues major policy later. The major issue here is the general idea. What do you think?

Some of us just natually stink at writing polls. Like I said, there's no hidden agenda to that poll.

'I did not put a hidden agenda in that poll.'

Seriously, though, this is a good idea. There are some instances where a biased post is ok, such as a confirmation poll.

The only problem I see with the proposal is the wording. The poll would exclude non-elected persons to be biased. Remember, the way our system is designed (and purposely done so) is to allow ALL people to post official polls.

Something more like...

'Official polls dealing with game actions or departmental policy must not contain a biased statement by the citizen creating the poll in it's thread's first post. The citizen may post his/her opinion in a later post.'

Unless you've already got a sponsor lined up, don't bother with poll reform. I've had a basic reform set up so all that has to be done is copy and paste it for weeks and nobody on this council or last term's has bothered to post a Council Vote.

Council... Heh. You people really should add Governors and Judiciary to the Council

[Edit] Or is that 'us' people? [/edit]

Originally posted by Octavian X
'I did not put a hidden agenda in that poll.'

Click to expand...

Anyway, for this rule addition don't restrict fair polling practices to the leaders. Any citizen can post a binding poll on policy so the rule must apply equally to everybody.

The first post of the poll may only contain neutral information presented without bias.

Or something like that.

YOu are right Shaitand and Octavian.


"The first post of the poll may only contain neutral information presented without bias."

How do I make that official?

Chieftess, would you like to do the honors? Donavon? CivGeneral? eyrei? Strider? Immortal? Someone on the council, contact me. I'll give you the full wording for the poll, you just post it, and I'll put up some links...

While no official request for judicial review has been made, I must urge caution on this proposal as it may well be a violation of an individual's right to freedom of speech as provided in both the Constitution and the Code of Laws.

EDIT: Furthermore, I find it perplexing that we rush to commit ourselves to a change restricting what can be said in a poll, but we have yet to facilitate much more important changes to our polling practices similar to those proposed by Shaitan earlier in the game. Heaven forbid if someone were to point out publicly that under our current system, it is forbidden to justify policy, plans or actions with informational polls....

I don't know what your view is, Mr. Chief Justice, but I am of thought that rather than violating one's right, it clarifies it, as do the laws of Section A of the CoL. An arguement could be made that the law barring political parties is in violation to the constitution, though it's intent is to clarify it.

It sounds to me that we may be using the term "clarify" to replace "restrict", much like other regimes in real life have clarified their citizen's rights on a wide array of issues throughout history.

Your comparison between this proposal and the rules prohibiting political parties is a bit of a stretch too. This rule has nothing to do with the formation of a inherently divisive political structure that promotes group support for an issue or collection of issues. This proposal directly attacks the right of an individual to express his or her opinions on a subject.

Additionally, I am reminded of a similar debate I was having with Shaitan recently concerning the concept of auto-investigations of devoicing actions:

we also need to remove rules that are unnecessary, redundant, add needless complexity to the rules, and don't contribute to the game play, flow or enjoyment

Click to expand...

Even though we saw things differently on that issue, we both agreed, as would most every citizen of Fanatika, that our rules should serve to enhance the flow and enjoyment of the game. I don't see how this proposed rule change would accomplish this. More likely, it would serve to accomplish the opposite through the additional complexity of what can and cannot be included in the opening post of a poll thread.

Also, as a former departmental leader myself, I am surprised that there is not more outrage from the current council of leaders concerning this proposal as it would place even greater restrictions on their polling practices. If passed, they would then be expected to spend countless hours researching, testing, theorizing and planning a course of action; then be limited to posting just the core of the plan (wording would have to be carefully selected as well, as the slightest hint of excitement or anticipation or concern could be construed as bias).

How can this be viewed as anything but a restriction on their rights to freedom of speech?

All of that good stuff can be posted in the message after the actual poll message, Forty. The object is to give an impartial and fair poll.

Just figured out how to explain that this does not violate freedom of speech. It actually assures freedom of speech.

The poll poster is posting for all of the people. All of the suggestions that came from him/herself and others. If they present the choices with bias they are infringing on the freedom of speech of those other people. Being the pollster should not give an unfair advantage to that person's views over the other options/opinions that are being presented.

Now that certainly makes sense for some polls, but what about for the dept leaders that are polling their proposed plans of action? Certainly those polls should be excluded.

Why? That should be just as unbiased as any other poll.

The description of the plan would go in the first post as that is what is being polled. The Leader's expectations of benefits and deficiencies would go elsewhere.

In any case, the Department Leader's poll should be the result of feedback and discussion and therefore the contribution of several people.

The rule doesn't say that a person can't post their opinion or encourage their favorite, it just says they can't do that in the official poll post.

I initially voted YES in the council vote due to a recent wonder poll where a huge benefit of one of the choices(ending the foreign wonder cascade by building US) was omitted, and is still not there to this date. To me, the omission of information discussed in the Citizen's Forum also reflects bias, although it could have been an honest mistake.

I changed my vote to ABSTAIN due to FortyJ's comments. An elected leader was chosen by the people to lead. My main example would be Forty's settler site polls where he would label his choice with Recommended by the Domestic Department. While definitely showing bias, the leading statement was mainly the result of the Domestic Leader doing what he was elected to do: research and determine the best site. The people can still choose to disagree.

In a nutshell, the proposed change would work well with some polls and not so well with others. I believe that it would only stand to add more confusion and infighting to the DemoGame.

If the proposal that was abandoned last month had been passed then this one wouldn't be necessary. That proposal contained the option to vote down the poll itself so biased polls could be policed by the people as needed.

Please link me to that proposal, Shaitan. I must have missed it. If I read through it and find it has merit, I will gladly sponsor that poll for you.

Donovan
Here is the relevant discussion on the subject, including both versions of the reform proposal. Link

Here is the relevant poll taken on the subject as well. Link

I too would like very much to see some poll reform take place this term. I believe Shaitan's previous proposal is worthy of further examination and revitalization.