New Version - 3.4.2 (May 11, 2023)

Status
Not open for further replies.

Recursive

Already Looping
Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
4,782
Location
Antarctica
Hey all,

New version inbound. Contains LOTS of balance changes, mainly from implemented VP Congress proposals.

A few housekeeping announcements:
- I made some mistakes on the vote for the Espionage Rework Proposals. One proposal - Changes to Spy Mission Selection (the most popular, and one that is in my opinion a common sense change) has been implemented. The remaining four will be voted on again. I will post the new poll in the main forum shortly. Four options, two of which are mutually exclusive, should make the vote less confusing than five, at least.

- There will be additional changes to the VP Congress system announced soon. Stay tuned!

- Another version will be released at the end of the month, or when all remaining VP Congress proposals from this session are implemented on GitHub, whichever is sooner. This upcoming version will not be savegame compatible.

- This changelog is huge and may contain inaccuracies. If you notice any, please let me know!

Special thanks to KungCheops for the excellent work on improving the road building AI, Enginseer for an enormous number of text reworks, and seroperson for work on fixing desyncs in multiplayer.

Thanks also to N.Core, axatin, and Enginseer again for implementing many sponsored proposals. You make our democratic balancing system work!

Changelog:
Code:
General
- Performance improvements
- Some fixes for desyncs in multiplayer
- Replaced std::sort usage with std::stable_sort for consistent outputs
- Improvements to database hashing algorithm, clang build queue

AI
- Massive improvements to road building AI, courtesy of KungCheops
    AI is much better at building shortcuts and locating strategic defensive points
    Iroquois and Songhai AIs are now better at exploiting their road trait bonuses
- Some improvements to general Worker AI as well, particularly when deciding where to build Forts
- Blocked automated Workers from building improvements in cities that are being razed
- Adjustments to Diplo & City-State AI determination of "potential military threats or targets"
    Ties into road-building AI as well - AI will prioritize building roads near borders with threats or targets
- Diplo AI resets 'times agreed to coop war' bonus to 0 if any war declaration or city capture against them occurs, not just betrayals
- Diplo AI resets 'times refused to go on coop war' penalty to 0 if they make peace with the player
    Or if the player capitulates to any civ (voluntary vassalage doesn't count)
- Diplo AI now notices direct betrayals against human teammates, not just AI teammates
- Removed an unintended slight reduction in diplomatic hostility towards neighbors in the early game
- Tactical AI now considers the ally of a City-State when calculating tactical dominance zones
- Tactical AI search depth reduced for performance reasons
    Can be reverted in DifficultyMod.xml
- Tactical AI 'branching' reduced when the AI has large numbers of units to process, again for performance reasons
- Tactical AI less likely to abort melee units' killing attacks

UI
- City-States affected by Open Door / Sphere of Influence now have indicators on the Espionage Overview
- Faith purchase menu now shows twice as many options before it requires you to scroll down
- Numerous text fixes and additions, most of them from Enginseer, including clarifications to several UAs and improvements
    Policy text rewritten in bullet point form

Balance
  Barbarians
  - Removed Coast Walkers promotion (Barbs that spawn on the coast can no longer embark prior to 80% of civs researching Sailing)

  Buildings
    General
    - Cleaned up conquest probability entries
        Conquest probability is 80% for most buildings
        100% for World Wonders and religious buildings
        0% for defense, military training, and policy-exclusive buildings (requires Civilizing Mission to capture)
        National Wonders, Guilds, Refineries can never be captured
        Courthouse, Corporation buildings, Spanish Mission, and instant yield buildings can never be captured

    - Added "Flat Damage Reduction" to some buildings
        You might be familiar with its cousin in the Promotion Tree which flatly reduces damage from all sources (minimum 1!)
        For cities, attacks can deal 0 damage (and award no XP if they do)
        This ability encourages the use of siege attacks over spamming ranged attacks to down an enemy city

    - Reworked Defense Building line
        Arsenal: Buffed city HP boost from 175 to 300
        Bastion Fort: Loses 150 City HP, gains flat damage reduction of 2
        Castle: Loses 150 City HP, gains flat damage reduction of 2
        Harbor: Loses 150 City HP
        Military Base: Moved from Rocketry to Radar, City CS boost increased to 24 (was 20)
        Mine Field: Loses 10 City CS and 200 City HP
        Strategic Defense System: Loses 200 City HP

    - Reverted recent changes to lategame building maintenance
        Industrial era buildings now cost 6 or 7 GPT
        Modern era buildings now cost 8 GPT
        Atomic era buildings now cost 10 GPT
        Information era buildings now cost 10 GPT

    - Removed 10% Production cost increase per city in empire, excluding the capital, from Guilds, Refineries, etc.

    - Production cost and population requirement increase for National Wonders is now 25% per city in empire, excluding the capital (was 10%)
        Does not apply to American, Assyrian, English, Carthaginian, and Venetian unique NWs (stays at 10%)

    - Base national population requirement decreased for all National Wonders
        All Unique National Wonders: Removed entirely
        Heroic Epic: 20 -> 12
        Scrivener's Office: 20 -> 12
        School of Philosophy: 25 -> 15
        National Monument: 25 -> 15
        Circus Maximus: 25 -> 15
        Oxford University: 35 -> 19
        Grand Temple: 30 -> 19
        East India Company: 40 -> 22
        Ironworks: 40 -> 22
        Printing Press: 30 -> 25
        Hermitage: 45 -> 30
        Foreign Bureau: 45 -> 40
        National Intelligence Agency: 70 -> 50
        International Finance Center: 60 -> 40
        Palace of Culture and Science: 60 -> 40
        Hall of Honor: 60 -> 40

    Airport
    - Moved from Radar to Rocketry

    Aqueduct / Harappan Reservoir
    - Now requires a Granary in the city

    Hydro Plant
    - Added +3 Science per lake/river tile
    - Removed +3 Gold per lake/river tile

    Scrivener's Office
    - No longer affected by Ceremony
        Because it lacks building requirements

    Wind Farm
    - Added +1 Science per worked tile
    - Removed +1 Gold per worked tile

  City-States
  - Pledges of Protection now require the median military power instead of 60% of the highest military power
     If there are an even number of civs, thus the median is the average of two values, the lowest of the two is the requirement
     Should allow for more pledges and reduce the impact of outliers
     Fixed an issue with notifications when a pledge is at risk of being annulled for both distance AND weakening military

  Civs
    Assyria
    - Removed Gold maintenance on Royal Library

    Babylon
    - Walls of Babylon reworked
        +8 CS, +150 City HP
        +4 Science
        +3 Great Scientist points
        No maintenance cost
        Great Scientists provide 10% more instant Science when expended
    - Bowman loses Indirect Fire, gains Marksmanship (+33% RCS when attacking wounded units)

    Brazil
    - Bandeirantes now has Defensive Embarkation, like the Explorer

    China
    - Nerfed Siheyuan improvement
        No longer produces +1 Culture as its base yield (which means no more WLTED Culture yield as well)
        Civil Service no longer provides +1 Gold
        +1 Science at Electricity changed to +1 Gold at Electricity

    India
    - UA Reworked
       Start with a Pantheon
       Great Prophets cost 35% less Faith
       Founding a religion converts all owned Cities
       +1 Religious Pressure (was +0.6) and +1% Food (was +2% Growth) for each follower of your religion in a city
       Pressure bonus is capped at 24 followers (was 36)
       No Unhappiness from Religious Unrest (this ability was always there and is now documented)
       Cannot build Missionaries

    Maya
    - Atlatlist loses Atlatl Strike (+33% RCS when attacking wounded units), gains Indirect Fire

    Netherlands
    - Polder can now be built on any water tile surrounded by 3 land tiles, including on Lakes

    Korea
    - UA now gives +20% Science during Golden Ages instead of +30% GPP
    - Seowon reworked
        Base yields are now 3 Science, 2 Culture (was 3 Science, 2 Faith)
        Removed +15% Science during Golden Ages
        Moved back to Education like the University (was Philosophy)
        Added +1 Science, +1 Production to all Great Person Improvements near city (as well as Great Works)

    Rome
    - Removed ability to forcefully annex City-States
    - Gains +30% CS vs. City-States
    - Conquered City-States provide rewards as if they were Allies (was Friends)
    - Fixed conquered Mercantile City-States not providing Gold

    Shoshone
    - Now claims 4 additional tiles when conquering a city

  Espionage
  - When a spy has completed a mission without being identified, the mission select screen appears and the next mission can be chosen
      No need to leave the city to change mission selection anymore!
  - The option "Defer mission selection for one turn" has been added, allowing the spy to choose a mission next turn instead
  - Rigging an election in a City-State now increases coup chances by:
      20% for a Level 1 spy (unchanged)
      30% for a Level 2 spy (new)
      40% for a Level 3 spy (new)
       0% for a City-State under a Sphere of Influence (new)
  - Moving a spy out of a City-State resets the increased coup success chance
      This prevents using a high-level spy to rig elections and then replacing them with a low-level spy to avoid losing them
  - Spies can now gain XP if they rig an election in a non-capital city of a City-State
  - Fixed "Arm local populace" spy mission requiring the spy owner to be unhappy instead of the targeted civ

  Ideologies
    Freedom
      Their Finest Hour
      - Increased bonus Air Unit slots from 1 to 2
      - Added +3 city CS for each Air Unit stationed in city
      - Removed 33% CS increase to all cities
      - Removed 25% Production bonus towards air units in all cities

  Policies
    Imperialism
      - Structure of the tree revamped to be more flexible

      Martial Law
      - Now requires Colonialism
      - Gains +1 Happiness and +4 Culture per garrisoned unit
      - Loses +1 Happiness from Constabularies

      Exploitation
      - Now only requires Civilizing Mission
      - No longer allows military upgrades in city-states or vassals (moved to Regimental System)

      Regimental System
      - No longer has prerequisites
      - Allows military upgrades in city-states and vassals (moved from Exploitation)
      - Great Admirals will grant 2 extra copies of Luxuries (moved from Rationalism's Free Thought)

      Civilizing Mission
      - No longer has prerequisites
      - Fixed a bug allowing this policy to retain the unique buildings of other civilizations

      Finisher
      - Ironsides promotion renamed to Banzai!, now given to Airplanes and Naval Units
      - Removed +3 CS to cities for each stationed Air Unit
      - Removed -3% Unhappiness from Needs in cities for each stationed Air Unit

    Rationalism
      Free Thought
      - Moved Great Admiral Luxury bonus to Regimental System (Imperialism)

  Promotions
    Blockade
    - Gains 50% chance to withdraw from melee combat
    - Loses "steals gold equal to damage inflicted on a city"

    Piracy
    - Gains "steals gold equal to damage inflicted on a city" (capped at 10x City Strength)
    - Loses 50% chance to withdraw from melee combat

    Tank Hunter I and II
    - Each grant a +50% bonus vs. Armored Units (up from +25%)

  Religion
    Units
    - Inquisitors now have a base cost of 300 Faith (up from 200)
    - Inquisitors no longer cause 1 turn of Resistance when Removing Heresy

    Founders
      Divine Inheritance
      - Celestial Throne now gives +5 Golden Age Points to Holy Sites (was +5 Faith)

      Holy Law
      - Divine Court now gives +5 Culture to Holy Sites (was +5 Gold)

      Theocratic Rule
      - Grand Ossuary now gives +5 Gold to Holy Sites (was +5 Culture)

    Followers
      General
      - Great Work Slots removed from all religious buildings
      - Conversion Resistance removed from almost all religious buildings (2 exceptions, listed below)

      Cooperation
      - Reworked
          +3 Food from Internal Food Trade Routes, scaling with Era
          +3 Production from Internal Production Trade Routes, scaling with Era
          +2 Production if city has a specialist

      Gurdwaras
      - New building belief
      - +2 Faith, +3 Food
      - +10% Food, +10% City Defense
      - +25% Religious Majority Pressure
      - -1 Unhappiness from Distress

      Gurukalam
      - New belief
      - +1 Faith in city for every 5 Science per turn it produces (capped at half the number of followers in the city)
      - Gain Culture and Food equal to 10% of Faith purchases

      Indulgences
      - New belief
      - +1 Faith in city for every 10 GPT it produces (capped at half the number of followers in city)
      - Gain Gold and Production equal to 10% of Faith purchases

      Mandir
      - Reworked
          +3 Faith, +2 Food
          Gain 5 Food, Production, Gold, Culture and Science on citizen birth, scaling with era
          +15% Religious Majority pressure
          +10% Conversion Resistance
          -1 Unhappiness from Poverty

      Orders
      - Reworked
          +3 Gold, +2 Faith
          +3 City Defense
          +25% Religious Majority pressure
          Military Land Units gain the Morale promotion
          Gain Faith equal to 10% Production cost of units built in this city
          Gain Production equal to 10% of Faith purchases in this city

      Synagogue
      - Removed Religious Majority pressure
      - Has +15% Conversion Resistance

      Teocallis
      - New building belief
      - +2 Faith
      - +1 Unit Supply
      - +25% Religious Majority pressure
      - +15 XP for Military Units in this city
      - +3 Faith in this city when a unit created here kills a unit
      - -1 Unhappiness from Distress

      Veneration
      - Removed

    Enhancers
      Abode of Peace
      - Buffed Influence from quests with City-States following this religion to 25% (was 20%)
      - Now +1 Gold and Faith per 2 City-State followers (was per 10 followers in foreign cities)

      Mendicancy
      - Removed +1 Faith for every 10 GPT in city
      - Missionaries of this religion now erode existing pressure of other religions by 10%

      Inquisition
      - Buffed Inquisitor cost reduction to 33% (was 25%)

      Zealotry
      - Removed Missionary erosion of existing pressure

    Reformation
      Faith of the Masses
      - Removed ability to purchase Stadiums with Faith

      Global Commandments
      - Removed +10 Culture, Science, Gold, Faith, GAP every turn while host of the World Congress
      - Buffed bonus Culture, Science, Gold, Faith, GAP from passing a proposal to 350, scaling with era (was 150, scaling with era)

      Inspired Works
      - Nerfed Science and Faith bonus to Landmarks and GPTIs to +2 (was +4)

  Technologies
    General
    - Reduced Atomic and Information era tech costs by about 10%

    Computers
    - Loses +15% Tourism modifier

    Internet
    - Nerfed Tourism modifier to +50% (was +100%)

    Radio
    - Loses +15% Tourism modifier

  Units
    Helicopter Gunship
    - Can now hover on Ocean tiles, but can't attack from them

    Pioneer / Colonist / Conquistador
    - Founded cities now include a Herbalist, Lodge, and Arena

    Spearman / Hoplite / Immortal / Pictish Warrior / Barbarian Spearman
    - Gains Brute Force promotion (+33% CS vs. Barbarians)

  World Wonders
    Statue of Zeus
    - Buffed CS increase when attacking cities to +25% (was +15%)
    - Now grants a free Worker upon completion

Miscellaneous Bugfixes
- Fixed Venice not being able to invest in the building a puppet city is currently constructing
- Fixed a bug where units that could capture units did not follow up on a killed unit it could not capture
- Fixed spies being unable to move to owned cities
- Fixed AI spies being unable to move to major civ cities (Community Patch only)
- Fixed Germany's UA not triggering (Community Patch only)
- Fixed bugs with the Religion Overview screen
- Fixed a pathfinding issue
- Fixed Throne Room (Tradition Finisher) not giving +10% Culture to the capital as advertised
- Fixed Barbarian units abandoning encampments
- Fixed bug causing AI units to leave safe positions
- City-States will cancel/never give coup quests if a targeted City-State was recently couped, under a Sphere of Influence, or lost their ally
- Fixed a bug where the "turns to Golden Age" display wasn't factoring in GAP from other sources

Link: https://github.com/LoneGazebo/Commu...s/download/Release-3.4.2/Vox.Populi.3.4.2.exe

Online as of 12:46 AM CST. Not savegame compatible.

---
Version 3.4.1 released. Link above has been updated.

Changelog:
Code:
- Fixed incorrect base National Population requirement for Ironworks, Oxford University, Hermitage
- Fixed a bunch of text issues

Online as of 11:35 AM CST on May 9. Savegame compatible with 3.4 versions.

---
Version 3.4.2 released. Link above has been updated.

Changelog:
Code:
- Fixed a crash

Online as of 9:48 PM CST on May 11. Savegame compatible with 3.4 versions.
 
Last edited:
To clarify, only the pressure part of Indian UA is capped. You're free to grow for more food% if you want to.
 
Is Marksmanship (+33% RCS when attacking wounded units) lost on upgrade (like atlatlist strike used to be)?

Rome
"- Conquered City-States provide rewards as if they were Allies (was Friends)"
I assume this is just raw yields and no gains from chancery?
 
Is Marksmanship (+33% RCS when attacking wounded units) lost on upgrade (like atlatlist strike used to be)?

Rome
"- Conquered City-States provide rewards as if they were Allies (was Friends)"
I assume this is just raw yields and no gains from chancery?
No and yes, respectively.
 
Don't forget to thank that one guy @senoperson (I don't know his CFC account) for his effort to tackle some MP desync problems.

Time to update some of the modmods.
 
What's
Civilizing Mission
mean?

- Pledges of Protection now require the median military power instead of 60% of the highest military power

This is NOT what we asked for. We wanted pledges of protection to be influenced by the CLOSEST military power. It's ridiculous that civs all the way on the other side of the world can pledge to protect a city state when they're way too far away to uphold that pledge.

This is both for realism and gameplay purposes, as when you take the effort to go to the corner of the map to bully a city state, it's not fair they're protected by your own neighbor somehow. Then that neighbor gets mad and declares war on you while the city state is just chilling too far away to even care..

- Rigging an election in a City-State now increases coup chances by: 20% for a Level 1 spy (unchanged) 30% for a Level 2 spy (new) 40% for a Level 3 spy (new) 0% for a City-State under a Sphere of Influence (new)
This doesn't fix the problem we discussed. We will still just reload if a coup fails, and that's bad game design. It's the only RNG factor in the game where accepting the silly dice roll vs. reloading and couping the next turn instead can mean the difference between a war declaration you're unprepared for (civs like to declare war as soon as the other civ loses their allied city-state), huge support IN a current war, and much more. Leaving it up to chance if a very outdated method and you'll see in my newly submitted game simulation statistics, which will once again show that random odds versus strategic spy and counterspy methods is inherently flawed.

Ideologies Freedom
You forgot to fix Autocracy too. It was about fixing the problem that anyone with a vassal is required to go Autocracy, which means there's no freedom to choose.. uhm.. Freedom and Order.
I look forward to the fixes at the end of the month, when some of my proposals will be implemented. Let's make Vox Populi the best it can be!
(I didn't receive an answer to my DM to you but here it is in case you missed it:
I see you started a conversation with me, I was hoping you would, because I would like to suggest this feature after my 15th playthrough as China on Epic speed today.

It's a policy that would replace or add on to another policy in the Patronage tree.


Coup cooldowns on city states youre allied with expire, as soon as you lose their alliedship!

Rationale: This is a great bonus to keep couping and solve that spy savescum problem we've been having!

I would also suggest some automation in trading, it's frustrating to have to keep re-buying luxuries from AI's, when I am perfectly willing to pay 1-3 gold per turn extra as long as I don't have to propose a new deal every ~20 turns. Especially with that happiness problem!

------

I'll read your feedback on my suggestions from yesterday later, but I'm happy my voice is being heard, and that you are willing to work together with me in implementing them in the game!

Let's make Vox Populi the best mod it can be! And let's hope for your ultimate goal: That the Yogscast can pick it up and do some playthroughs on it, to really pick up steam for this mod's popularity and all the blood sweat and tears you and I put into it, so that eventually we can make a fully stand-alone game, without the limitations of that clunky civ 5 engine and the shoddy multiplayer code!
Oh and don't forget what I said about nuclear missiles, make it so we can actually build and use one before someone has already won a culture victory :p At least let us buy missiles.
 
This is NOT what we asked for. We wanted pledges of protection to be influenced by the CLOSEST military power. It's ridiculous that civs all the way on the other side of the world can pledge to protect a city state when they're way too far away to uphold that pledge.

This is both for realism and gameplay purposes, as when you take the effort to go to the corner of the map to bully a city state, it's not fair they're protected by your own neighbor somehow. Then that neighbor gets mad and declares war on you while the city state is just chilling too far away to even care..
Nope. This won: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...irement-require-median-military-power.683356/

This doesn't fix the problem we discussed. We will still just reload if a coup fails, and that's bad game design. It's the only RNG factor in the game where accepting the silly dice roll vs. reloading and couping the next turn instead can mean the difference between a war declaration you're unprepared for (civs like to declare war as soon as the other civ loses their allied city-state), huge support IN a current war, and much more. Leaving it up to chance if a very outdated method and you'll see in my newly submitted game simulation statistics, which will once again show that random odds versus strategic spy and counterspy methods is inherently flawed.
This won: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...s-coup-chances-depending-on-spy-level.683268/ and it wasn't meant to make coups deterministic. Save scumming is cheating anyway, but you're free to do so, because who cares in single-player game?

Oh and don't forget what I said about nuclear missiles, make it so we can actually build and use one before someone has already won a culture victory :p At least let us buy missiles.
Which proposal are you referring to?
 
You forgot to fix Autocracy too. It was about fixing the problem that anyone with a vassal is required to go Autocracy, which means there's no freedom to choose.. uhm.. Freedom and Order.
I look forward to the fixes at the end of the month, when some of my proposals will be implemented. Let's make Vox Populi the best it can be!
(I didn't receive an answer to my DM to you but here it is in case you missed it:

Oh and don't forget what I said about nuclear missiles, make it so we can actually build and use one before someone has already won a culture victory :p At least let us buy missiles.
Mate i don't think you understood how the Vox Populi Congress works. You didn't propose anything that was voted on. Maybe you should read the Guide to the VP Congress
 
You forgot to fix Autocracy too. It was about fixing the problem that anyone with a vassal is required to go Autocracy, which means there's no freedom to choose.. uhm.. Freedom and Order.
If it isn't proposed by Congress, any gameplay changes won't be implemented/improved.
And no one proposed something like this. So feel free to propose it at the next Congress, which is 2 months away from now.
 
I'm super hyped to play some Babylon and Korea now. I've been playing them a lot recently because of the upcoming changes voted on in the Congress. I wanted to get some idea of how they played so I could offer some feedback on the changes (when the time comes). I'm excited to see the differences, especially for Korea! Thanks for all the work guys! It's encouraging to see such fast implementation of so many things.

For these proposals that passed, if they do need tweaking here and there, do those tweaks have to wait two months? I'm not sure where the line is for "small game-play tweak" vs "proposal". Maybe they are the same thing?
 
I havent reformed yet but overlay and help texts suggests that holy sites are the same as before.
1683638069748.png
 
For these proposals that passed, if they do need tweaking here and there, do those tweaks have to wait two months? I'm not sure where the line is for "small game-play tweak" vs "proposal". Maybe they are the same thing?
Yes, tweaks also need to wait for a new session. There is no such line. Balance changes are treated the same as other proposals.
 
If by tweaks you mean changing a gameplay element, you have to wait for the next session.

But if you mean tweaking some unintended changes (X description said it has Y ability, but it doesn't work as intended) it doesn't need a proposal to get it fixed. Just report it; it will be a bug report and probably be fixed on the next major update. Either implement the ability or edit the description text.
 
Last edited:
Epic speed, 7 cities 39 total pop (yes my cities are small), had to delay Heroic a long time, I could (and did) build Iron works .
Circus maximus, School of Philosophy and National Monument all 2 pop away so soonish available, what happened with oxford?!
Spoiler :

1683643976958.png

1683644065281.png


 
Version 3.4.1 released. Link in OP has been updated.

Changelog:
Code:
- Fixed incorrect base National Population requirement for Ironworks, Oxford University, Hermitage
- Fixed a bunch of text issues

Online as of 11:35 AM CST. Savegame compatible with 3.4 versions.

I havent reformed yet but overlay and help texts suggests that holy sites are the same as before.
View attachment 661587
Epic speed, 7 cities 39 total pop (yes my cities are small), had to delay Heroic a long time, I could (and did) build Iron works .
Circus maximus, School of Philosophy and National Monument all 2 pop away so soonish available, what happened with oxford?!
Both of these are now fixed.
 
What's

mean?



This is NOT what we asked for. We wanted pledges of protection to be influenced by the CLOSEST military power. It's ridiculous that civs all the way on the other side of the world can pledge to protect a city state when they're way too far away to uphold that pledge.

This is both for realism and gameplay purposes, as when you take the effort to go to the corner of the map to bully a city state, it's not fair they're protected by your own neighbor somehow. Then that neighbor gets mad and declares war on you while the city state is just chilling too far away to even care..
Civilizing Mission is a policy in the Imperalism tree. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilizing_mission


Re: Pledges of Protection, I am confused as to your usage of "we" when you're the only one, as far as I can see, who made any such statement.

Two proposals were made to change the way City-State Pledges of Protection work:
(4-18) Proposal: Pledge to Protect Military Power Requirement Reduced from 60% to 50%!
(4-18a) Counterproposal: Pledge to Protect Military Requirement - Require Median Military Power

Proposal 4-18a won by 56 votes to 31 during the Voting Phase: (4-18) City-State PTP Military Requirement Proposals
That's barely going to make a difference in my eyes, pledge of protections are inherently flawed, and I'm always at least 30% off from this requirement, but it's a step in the right direction.

It should only require you based on how many units are close to the city state. 2 tanks on the other side of the world should have less impact on being allowed to pledge than 1 tank 5-10 tiles away from the city state, and that's final.

It'll take more testing but the results will prove my point. Just saving you some time! ^^
This does not count as a proposal. To submit a proposal, you need to make a thread (not a post) in the VP Congress subforum during the Proposal Phase (or Counterproposal Phase, for some counterproposals) of one of the following months: January, April, July, October. For more information, refer to the VP Congress Guide (although it will be updated soon, that rule will not be changing): https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/vox-populi-congress-guide.678962/

The next Proposal Phase runs from July 1st to July 15th. For some counterproposals, the deadline is July 18th. Proposals submitted in any other way and/or at any other time will not be acknowledged during the Sponsorship or Voting Phases.

In addition, proposal threads which don't follow the rules for submission (also listed in the guide) will be vetoed. If you had submitted the above as a proposal, it would have been vetoed because it's not specific enough. You'd need to provide exact numbers explaining how this change would work. How many units? Within what range? How does the presence of other civs affect the requirement? Vague proposals will not be accepted.

Finally, at least one developer would need to sponsor your proposal. Sponsoring a proposal does not mean agreeing with it - it isn't a second. It means that a developer has agreed that they are able and willing to make the necessary code changes required to implement the proposal, if the community approves of it during the Voting Phase.


This doesn't fix the problem we discussed. We will still just reload if a coup fails, and that's bad game design. It's the only RNG factor in the game where accepting the silly dice roll vs. reloading and couping the next turn instead can mean the difference between a war declaration you're unprepared for (civs like to declare war as soon as the other civ loses their allied city-state), huge support IN a current war, and much more. Leaving it up to chance if a very outdated method and you'll see in my newly submitted game simulation statistics, which will once again show that random odds versus strategic spy and counterspy methods is inherently flawed.
This will not be 'fixed'. Proposals to do so would be vetoed. Adding randomness to game elements like this would prevent savegames from reproducing issues when loaded, which makes it more difficult or impossible to fix bugs. If you don't want to cheat, then don't cheat.


You forgot to fix Autocracy too. It was about fixing the problem that anyone with a vassal is required to go Autocracy, which means there's no freedom to choose.. uhm.. Freedom and Order.
Autocracy is functioning as intended, and civs with vassals are not required to choose it. Autocracy is generally more advantageous for warmongering civs, but that's by design, and unless you're a vassal (since vassals are forced to adopt the master's ideology), you can choose Freedom or Order. I'm not going to rebalance an entire ideology by myself because one person thinks that it's 'broken'.

If you have specific suggestions on how to improve the Autocracy and/or Freedom and/or Order trees, feel free to make a proposal in the next VP Congress session. No proposal was submitted by you during this session.

Please see above for the rules on how to properly submit proposals. If you had submitted the above as a proposal, it would have been vetoed because it's not specific enough. You'd need to provide an exact description explaining how this change would work. How is it broken? How do we fix it? What precise numbers and/or mechanics would we need to change to fix it? Vague proposals will not be accepted.

As discussed, a developer would then have to sponsor your proposal, and the community would need to approve it by a vote.


Oh and don't forget what I said about nuclear missiles, make it so we can actually build and use one before someone has already won a culture victory :p At least let us buy missiles.
If you have specific suggestions on how to improve nuclear weapons and/or Cultural Victory, feel free to make a proposal in the next VP Congress session. No proposal was submitted by you during this session.

Please see above for the rules on how to properly submit proposals. If you had submitted the above as a proposal, it would have been vetoed because it's not specific enough. You'd need to provide exact numbers explaining how this change would work. What should the Production and Gold cost be? What tech should it be available at? Vague proposals will not be accepted.

As discussed, a developer would then have to sponsor your proposal, and the community would need to approve it by a vote.


I look forward to the fixes at the end of the month, when some of my proposals will be implemented. Let's make Vox Populi the best it can be!
You did not make any proposals during the last session, so none of your suggestions will be included. If you have specific suggestions for improvements to Vox Populi, feel free to make a proposal in the next VP Congress session.

Please see above for the rules on how to properly submit proposals. As discussed, a developer would then have to sponsor your proposal, and the community would need to approve it by a vote.

Have a nice day.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom