Which World Wonders do you want to see?

I would like:
-The Empire State Building
-The Burj Khalifa
-Large Hadron Collider
-Versailles
-Shwedagon Pagoda
-Some Indian wonder (Sanchi stupa, Khajuraho, Fort Agra)
-Some Persian wonder (Persepolis...)
-Potala Palace
-Moai
-Sigiriya

JFD said:

Catholicism is the worst in humanity? Pessimist, much? I won't disagree with Versailles, but it is still a beautiful Palace. It is still a wonder.

Wonder's don't have to evoke positive feelings, just feelings of awe.

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Catholicism has done a great deal of good and a great deal of bad in its long, long history. Probably more good than bad, on balance! But St. Peter's, to me, represents the absolute moral nadir of the Church. While people starved, suffered under oppression and war, and generally lived in conditions of abject misery, the Church plundered Europe and half the world to fund the construction of a new St. Peter's (having torn down the old one, which I guess wasn't ostentatious enough). Conquistadors murdered and pillaged their way across the New World, stealing everything they could get their hands on, all in the name of the Church (a lot of that loot ended up in the Vatican; lots more of it helped pay for the fancy new church). The selling of indulgences, which is one of the ugliest, most wicked chapters in the Church's history, reached its zenith during the construction of St. Peter's—in order to pay for St. Peter's. They finished building it in the middle of the Thirty Years' War, which is probably the worst calamity Europe has ever experienced, apart from the Holocaust and the Black Death. The money that they poured into St. Peter's (and into all their fancy clothes, wine, whoring, etc.) could have done literally immeasurable good for the common Christians of Europe, but the Church didn't merely ignore them, it robbed them in order to pay for its excesses. It's horrible. It's an eternal stain on the name of the Church, and St. Peter's is the enduring monument that represents that stain.

Wonders should invoke awe, yeah. They don't have to be "good." Lots of slaves died building the Pyramids, which were just meant to glorify the Pharaohs. Not very noble. But the Pyramids represent extraordinary ingenuity, organizational skills, engineering prowess literally millennia ahead of the rest of the world, and they're tombs meant to glorify kings; St. Peter's is supposed to be a Christian church, but no Christian values are evident anywhere in its history. It's a symbol of venality and hypocrisy, of wealth and power abused by a Church that wasn't doing its appointed work.

Wow. More than a quarter of these are American built, that's a more than a bit US heavy.

The only one on the list I think is conspicuously absent from the game is the Ishtar Gate. That should have been added with the Babylon DLC, bizarre that it wasn't, but oh well. Anything else is a bonus that would be great, but I'd prefer one of these:

Nan Madol with a coastal city based bonus, a modern era London Underground that gives bomb shelters later, Nazca lines with a bonus after flight, Samara Mosque with a free engineer, Genbaku Domu that can only be built in a nuked city with a diplomacy boost.

This is the problem with these polls, there's always a smart-ass like me willing to turn up and throw in his two cents.

wigwam said:

Wonders should invoke awe, yeah. They don't have to be "good." Lots of slaves died building the Pyramids, which were just meant to glorify the Pharaohs. Not very noble. But the Pyramids represent extraordinary ingenuity, organizational skills, engineering prowess literally millennia ahead of the rest of the world, and they're tombs meant to glorify kings; St. Peter's is supposed to be a Christian church, but no Christian values are evident anywhere in its history. It's a symbol of venality and hypocrisy, of wealth and power abused by a Church that wasn't doing its appointed work.

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Well, not slaves, as it goes.

I accept your point about St. Peter's, although whether or not it has any merit is down to individual moral character. Regardless, including a wonder isn't about vindicating any real world wonders; it's about bringing in familiar testimony's of art, purpose and architectural brilliance. I feel that St. Peters works in all of these respects. As a icon of the Christian faith it may not have exemplified Christianity, but as an icon of the Papacy it certainly did its job by inspiring awe and flaunting the Church's wealth, thereby intimidating its adversaries. Because of that, for people who role-play their civ games this would be an important declaration of a strong, aggressive religious game.

I voted for about half of these Not because I think the game badly needs new World Wonders - there are plenty enough as it is - but because so many in the list would be deserving candidates.

St. Peter's and the Duomo in Florence are both worthy, IMO, but if there's one religious building that hasn't been added that should be, it's the Mezquita of Cordoba. It could generate extra culture per religion in your Civ...

I vote for Large Hadron Collider.
And I would like to add ITER, International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor.
I think International Space Station, LHC, and ITER are 3 biggest scinece project in 21th century, so these must be added World Wonder !

I voted for Florence's Cathedral and The Sphinx.
I want to see Solomon's Temple, Nazca Lines and some indian wonders.

InsanelyApple said:

EDIT: The LHC would be awesome as well, though I don't know what it's power would be.

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My suggestion was going to be free Research Lab in every city, but it doesn't quite line up (LHC should be in Particle Physics so it's quite a few techs ahead of Research Labs and it's a little late for it to truly matter).

How about the LHC provides 3 free XCOM Squads around the capital.

Well, that wouldn't make any sense...

Voted for Dome of the Rock and Ishtar Gate. but also want Selimiye Mosque and Great Mosque of Samarra.

After 'Broadway' as a wonder, I don't think we need any more American wonders. Atleast for a while

Anausha said:

Voted for Dome of the Rock and Ishtar Gate. but also want Selimiye Mosque and Great Mosque of Samarra.

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It would be an interesting idea to include Selimiye Mosque as the whole kulliye [(complex of a hospital, school, library and/or baths around a mosque) which comprises a medrese (Islamic academy teaches both Islamic and scientific lessons), a dar-ül hadis (Al-Hadith school), a timekeeper's room and an arasta (row of shops)]. The effect will then be something regarding a combination of faith, science and maybe gold and/or food. But not in an overpowered way.

Hakan-i Cihan said:

It would be an interesting idea to include Selimiye Mosque as the whole kulliye [(complex of a hospital, school, library and/or baths around a mosque) which comprises a medrese (Islamic academy teaches both Islamic and scientific lessons), a dar-ül hadis (Al-Hadith school), a timekeeper's room and an arasta (row of shops)]. The effect will then be something regarding a combination of faith, science and maybe gold and/or food. But not in an overpowered way.

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Yes, I agree. faith + science bonus would be good for Selimiye Mosque.

also, how did I forget Divriği Great Mosque and Hospital

a few pic from Divriği Mosque

Dome of the Rock
Florence Cathedral
Palace of Versailles
Shwedagon Pagoda
Sphinx
St. Peter's Basilica
Three Gorges Dam
Other

Aside from three gorges dam, I think all these are pretty much a given - harder to say they shouldn't be in the game than to justify their inclusion.

Three Gorges was really a humanitarian problem. It's incredible, yes, but pretty much controversial enough to not warrant inclusion. I'd vote for Itaipu Dam, personally, if it were listed among the options (And really, as far as hidroenergy goes, I can't even begin to understand why it has been ignored. It was the worlds largest generating hidroeletric just a few years back. And certainly is much more beautiful than Three Gorges).

The 'other' vote was actually intended for three mentions
Buddhas of Bamiyan, in Afghanistan (the monks that lived there offered shelter for travelers - for gold. And they melted the gold into the buddhas heads, in order for them to reflect the sun, and serve as some form of desert lighthouse for the trading caravans). Unfortunately, since their destruction by the taliban, most of their history was left aside - their memory was (kind of) reduced to a symbol of taliban opression.
And it fits the trading bonuses thematic of BNW.

Potala Palace, in Tibet (Lhasa)
Not exactly thematic-fitting, but incredible enough to put it here.

Guggenheim Museum, in Spain (Bilbao)
Fits culture mechanics, and is an incredible modern wonder.


Now, I had reserved this space for bashing north american-centrism... But I confess, I already grew tired of doing it. I give up, you win.

North America-centrism? More like US-centrism.

There is only one wonder represented from Canada (CN Tower) and Mexico (Chichen Itza) each.

It's already a shame that Broadway is in, we do not need Mount Rushmore. There are two wonder spots left (I believe) and I would rather they go to the Panama Canal and Potala Palace. They both represent areas that are not over-occupied with wonders, and I would say that they both invoke that sense of wonder that one should feel from wonders.

A wonder should be something that people might flock to see from the other side of the world. A wonder should be something that filled the headlines and thoughts of its time. It should be something so grand, one cannot even imagine its region without it. For those reasons, I don't think Guggenheim Museum or any of the dams (Hoover/Itaipu/Three Gorges) should be included.

I believe Prora and International Space Station (yes, that IS considered a wonder in the game) are the other 2 "unnaounced" wonders.

But I kinda wish they would add the two wonders that never made it into the game.

God of Kings said:

North America-centrism? More like US-centrism.

There is only one wonder represented from Canada (CN Tower) and Mexico (Chichen Itza) each.

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You're right. Bad phrasing choice of my part. What I meant was indeed US-centrism.

A wonder should be something that people might flock to see from the other side of the world. A wonder should be something that filled the headlines and thoughts of its time. It should be something so grand, one cannot even imagine its region without it. For those reasons, I don't think Guggenheim Museum or any of the dams (Hoover/Itaipu/Three Gorges) should be included.

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Yeah. I kinda understand what you mean. I'm also not an enthusiast of the Dam's, particularly. My only defense, in their case(and that of the museum), is that I feel modern wonders are slightly more needed than older ones (And, for obvious reasons, there are not that many options).
The ones i really wanted to see - not considering any gameplay value like timeframe or new mechanics -, would actually be the Buddhas I mentioned, the Shwedagon pagoda and Potala palace.


BTW: This list, by the American Society of Civil Engineers, is an interesting take on ideas for modern Wonders. Of course, they are "functional" wonders, mostly (they were chosen by engineers, after all), but this is an aspect of the game too.
http://geography.about.com/od/culturalgeography/ss/Seven-Wonders-Of-The-Modern-World.htm

I would like to have this in front of my capital coast could give a defensive and sight / trade/ maritime units bonus: