Ottomans in WW1 Scenario(support thread)

Hello all.

I've had some time on my hands lately so I've decided to completely overhaul a crude scenario I uploaded a while ago on here.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=442596

Anyways I've added some units, fiddled with the tech tree a bit, and done most of the civilopedia entries.

The civs are:

Ottomans
Bulgaria

Britain
Russia
Greece

Arabs

I wanted to put out a few questions to help me finish up though:

Firstly, I had always heard that Greece was on the side of the Entente, and had them locked into an alliance with Russia/Britain accordingly, and had done all the balancing with that in mind. However, I've recently realized that in fact Greece only joined the war on the side of the Entente at the very end of the war after the pro-German King Constantine abdicated in 1917. So given this information does it make more sense to leave Greece neutral at the war's start with the possibility of them being wooed by either side(as I have with the Arabs)?

Secondly, I've included chemical weapons that are intended to be used similar to cruise missiles, however while the AI sometimes builds 3 or 4 of the units they have no idea how to actually deploy them it seems. It's been a while since I've played a regular civ game with Cruise Missiles so I can't remember if the AI was similarly incompetent regarding them as well, so any advice regarding getting the AI to use them would much appreciated.

Greece was somewhat split to two countries during the war, with PM Eleftherios Venizelos setting his own Greece, allied to Entente, in the northern half (centered in Thessalonike), which seems to have happened because he feared (likely with good grounds) that if Greece remained neutral then nomatter the result of the WW1 it would be forced to cede most of its areas in the north anyway.

I don't think there is a good way to model this exactly in CivIII, so in my view you are better off just allying Greece to the Entente from the start of your scen.

There was this project long ago, I think it was abandoned: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=128280

This might also help: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=76688

Hmm...I suppose I'll leave the alliances as is. Right now the Greek frontier tends to remain fairly static until around 1917 or so anyways so it's not that bad.

Thank you for the links, Takhisis.

Anyways, does anyone have any ideas about Gas Canisters/cruise missiles and how to get the AI to use them properly?

Gas Canisters… use them with Charm bombard. There was a thread about the 'hacked' Civ3 editor which allows people to do that.

Hmm...My knowledge of how to use charm is extremely limited, but it would certainly make sense to some degree to use in this context. I'll definitely have to look into that more.

However my most immediate concern is whether or not I can get the AI to use them. Unless Charm-type bombardment is used by the AI properly?

You should also have Italy in the game. They had control of the Dodecanese Islands and also invaded south-western Anatolia during the war.

Perhaps make an Italian-French civ so you can represent the French invasion of the Levant?

Bengal Tiger said:

Hmm...My knowledge of how to use charm is extremely limited, but it would certainly make sense to some degree to use in this context. I'll definitely have to look into that more.

Click to expand...

This thread by tom2050 is a good place to start.

Thank you for the link, Blue Monkey.

10. Cruise Missiles and Nukes do not seem to be able to use Charm, and act as they normally do.

Click to expand...

Hmm... I guess that likely puts an end to using charm with the Gas Canisters.

Yoda Power, I'm a bit reluctant to include Italy/France. France is definitely beyond the scope of this scenario I think even though they did invade Lebanon/Syria towards the very end.

Italy might be more possible to implement, but I still think that given their involvement with the Ottomans was limited to the very end of the scenario, I don't think they should be active participants throughout the entire scenario which starts in 1914.

My goal is to try and make a scenario that is similar to the ones from the original Conquests, and even though it might mean streamlining some factions(for example leaving out the Communist Chinese in the WW2 scenario) for the sake of balance/clean borders, even if it doesn't match historically 100%.

Greece allowed the British and French to use the island of Lemnos for the attack on the Dardanelles in early 1915, and allowed Britain and France to occupy Salonika as well. The Entente really did not make any use of the Dodecanese during the war, and Italy never really was involved in the campaign in the Levant. The primary combatants there were the British with the support of Australia and the Arabs and a few French against the Ottomans with some support from Austria and Germany. Russia and the Ottomans primarily fought in the Caucasus Mountains, with Russia never able to penetrate to Romania, much less European Turkey. You did have a fairly extensive campaign in Mesopotamia between the British and the Ottomans as well, with one of the more embarrassing moments for the British being the surrender of their trapped forces at Kut in 1916. You might want to take a look at some of the available books for download at Project Gutenberg as well.

The Turks were extremely tough when it came to defensive fighting on the Dardanelles, but did not do so well further south in Palestine, the Sinai, or the Hejaz, due to limited communications and shortages of material.

How would you illustrate the massacres of non-Turkish peoples (Assyrians, Armenians, etc.) that happened during the war?

Originally I had an unplayable Armenian civ locked into a war with the Ottomans, and they got curb-stomped within a few turns by the Ottomans without fail, which I suppose models that, but I've since removed them, as in terms of gameplay it wasn't really adding much other than giving the Ottomans a boost in VP.

In general I'm more trying to simulate the combat(I mean, how many WW2 scenarios have you played that includes a representation of the Holocaust?), and since Armenians helped volunteer for the Russians against the Ottomans, I've decided instead to give Armenia to Russia, along with some volunteer "guerilla" units.

An 'Armenian resistance' faction might work, it'll give you trouble to the East (and allow the Russians to advance a bit) and then the local population will give you some resistance. You will have to keep troops in there to quell disorder. Maybe the same can be done around Smyrna… how would you force the Allies to land at Gallipoli? Place resources there and a fleet poised to attack?

I've done a fair bit of playtesting on the matter, and making Armenia as it's own faction really doesn't add anything, as they get owned within the first 5 turns while giving the Ottomans some extra VP for conquering them.

Given that I'm already trying to limit the Ottomans VP scoring as much as I can(given that they are such a large nation with multiple battlefronts they accumulate VP from unit kills much faster than the other nations) I don't feel it's worth adding Armenia as its own civ when for all intents and purposes they were fighting in co-ordination with the Russians against the Ottomans.

In regards to Galilpoli, it's hard to remodel an exact invasion as I can't preplace units in transports. Britain does get a couple of "Marines" at the scenario start and they tend to use them fairly effectively and manage to establish a solid beach head maybe 50% of the time. Although where they strike tends to be fairly random. Sometimes they land in Beirut, sometimes Antalya, and sometimes somewhere near northern Greece.

One thing I'd like to work out is what's the best way to model governments?

At the scenario start there are essentially two governments, Autocracy(Problematic corruption, Forced Labour) and Democracy(Minimal corruption, Paid labour, trade bonus but no unit limit from cities).

I could prevent government changing by simply making both require an "Era none" tech, however I would also like to include Communism as a potential government for Russia or even the Ottomans to help reduce corruption. However, I can't seem to prevent virtually every civ, including Britain and Greece, from going Communist as well, even if I make it their "shunned government" in the editor. Is there a way to have a government only available to certain civs without making it available from the get-go?

Also, as an aside, maybe it would be better if I made more forms of government (i.e. Constitutional Monarchy, Absolute Monarchy, Sultanate...?) for each civ at the start as well.

Give the Armenians a lot of 0-shield preplaced units. Have them control not many cities, but be up and about in the countryside.

Communism for the Russians… secret untradeable techs are the way to go there. That'd help prevent the British from becoming a Sultanate anyway.

Having a playable Armenia in the scenario, would make a good challenge civ.

Bengal Tiger said:

Is there a way to have a government only available to certain civs without making it available from the get-go?

Click to expand...

1. Create a new tech (govt: communism) and mark era as none.
2. Make the new tech a prerequisite for communism along with any other prerequisites
3. Make this a 'free tech' to Russia.

If you need an example, look at the biq in my European Conquest Mod. I did the same thing for Democracy, Communism, and Fascism

Thanks Big Bopper, much appreciated.

And I'll try putting in Armenia again and see how it goes for now.

Turkarmenia I mean, of course, as the rest of it was under Russian control. You might have the Azeris as potential allies, too.