Great Library and rage quitting

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PolishNoble

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I won a CV and SV on my first two attempts on King difficulty, standard speed, and built GL both times. I decided to try out quick speed for the first time, and also tried the Greeks for the first time, thinking I might go diplo. I got to ~turn 35, 2 turns away from building GL, and another civ built it.

My question is - if going for any victory other than domination, does losing the GL race result in restarts for anyone else? I know I don't play on IMM/Deity like many on here, but to me, not building GL seems like an automatic quit/restart.

Also, does the fact that I chose quick speed for the first time factor into how much quicker AI builds wonders on King?

Thanks for listening
 
Losing the Great Library race isn't an insuperable obstacle. I've been able to win a scientific victory on King without the help of the GL, and sometimes I opt out of building the wonder entirely. One wonder doesn't (and shouldn't) make or break a game that early.
 
I've won science victories on Immortal and Deity without building the GL. I don't think it's a big loss. It's nice to have, but far from being necessary for any victory type and any difficulty mode. Aim to get your National College ASAP and you'll be fine for science. Also, consider conquering whoever built the GL, if you really want that wonder (although admittedly, it still won't get you the benefit of the free GS and Library). :goodjob: Good luck!
 
Well the AI will build it faster (at an earlier turn #) simply because its on quick speed. Whether or not its relatively faster is another question, to which I don't know the answer.

I personally never go the GL. On Emperor you have to make a beeline and build it asap to have a chance at it, but the opportunity cost is just to high to do that. I'd rather expand, build an army, trade routes, etc. On immortal you need an amazing start to have a shot (Egypt + marble + Salt basically). I don't play on Diety but I imagine its pretty much impossible to get.
 
If great library is the only thing making you win science victory, you're doing something very wrong IMO
 
Losing 15-20 turns that early in the game will hinder you horribly though. Fail gold sucks that early in the game. You really do not need the GL however, most it will do is get you the NC a few turns earlier than normal.
 
BenitoChavez said:
Well the AI will build it faster (at an earlier turn #) simply because its on quick speed. Whether or not its relatively faster is another question, to which I don't know the answer.

I personally never go the GL. On Emperor you have to make a beeline and build it asap to have a chance at it, but the opportunity cost is just to high to do that. I'd rather expand, build an army, trade routes, etc. On immortal you need an amazing start to have a shot (Egypt + marble + Salt basically). I don't play on Diety but I imagine its pretty much impossible to get.
Click to expand...

Eh, I got GL with a pretty average start on immortal today. I was probably pretty lucky, but I find the extent to which you can't get the GL on higher difficulties a tad exaggerated.
 
I purposefully never build the GL. I honestly think it's a massive trap. I think the comparative advantage of other Wonders is much higher in the long term
 
BenitoChavez said:
Well the AI will build it faster (at an earlier turn #) simply because its on quick speed. Whether or not its relatively faster is another question, to which I don't know the answer.

I personally never go the GL. On Emperor you have to make a beeline and build it asap to have a chance at it, but the opportunity cost is just to high to do that. I'd rather expand, build an army, trade routes, etc. On immortal you need an amazing start to have a shot (Egypt + marble + Salt basically). I don't play on Diety but I imagine its pretty much impossible to get.
Click to expand...

I never build the Great Library either (on Emperor). Heck, Writing is usually one of the last Ancient techs I research. Trade routes give you a fair amount of research as well as a good amount of gold, a far better deal than a Library in a smallish city.
 
SULOMON said:
I don't think the benefits of it outweigh the cost. Just develop your city during that instead of building the GL.
Click to expand...

Well, its usefulness depends on what exactly you're trying to do. I sometimes build the GL if I have a decent start and am pursuing an early war. Unlocking swordsman 30 turns before the AI can be extremely helpful in conquering early neighbors.
 
I used to build the great library and usually, I beelined to either poetry and drama or iron working for the Colossus or the Parthenon. Mathematics, too for THG when starting with tradition.
 
Great Library on King: This is the first level you may have difficulty actually building it. AI starts with Pottery and so is only one tech away.

On a standard map size you need an above average unimproved hammer start to have a decent shot at beating the AI.

At this difficulty level you can still recover from a failed Great Library build; but with fail gold not even giving enough gold to cash buy a regular library it's best to avoid wonder races in which you might lose.

Note that on Emperor, you need not just an average average hammer start but an excellent one, and that on Immortal where the AI starts with a Worker (and Mining) you pretty much need a hammer start so good you are having trouble keeping tech progress high enough to have the tech to start the next planned item in your (mental) queue before finishing the current one.
 
Emperor+ is almost impossibke for GL in my experience. It certainly doesn't make or break a game. Dont know about king, usually probably gettable. However, with anything other than a very nice hammer start with marble, IMO your resources and efforts are probably better invested in beelining toward and getting NC ASAP.
 
People achieve SV on Immortal and Deity without even trying to get GL - think about it. I'm hooked on GL as well, but I read somewhere that if you skip it altogether and focus on growth + NC instead, the science output will be good enough to offset the lack of the wonder. Gonna start working on my GL addiction.
 
A Good GL rush should be under turn 25, if you can't get it by turn 25 or below you will not get it in a realistic game vs humans. Don't even go for it if you can't get it by 25.

Gotta love those games where some one gets it on turn 23 and 2 other players rage quit, ruining the game. Don't base your game on early wonders people!
 
some games, i've totally derped out and finished Masonry before even doing Writing, or just trying something different. so i lost the GL race in all of the first half of these slower-Writing games, then never went for the GL in the second half... and also instead of finishing Tradition like i normally would, i opted to dip into Liberty a bit.
 
Great library has a lot of small bonuses, none of which make it particularly powerful.
Id rather build Stonehenge or Hanging Gardens.
Or as others have said you could focus on building new cities or trade routes to get science.
 
Thank you for your replies, everybody. On standard I do try to get NC up and rolling soon (ideally somewhere between turn 80 and 90). I'm just so used to building GL, so in place of that, maybe a regular library, caravan, and either military or a diff early wonder at that point?

On that particular start, I also found a culture boost in ruins that allowed me to open tradition earlier than normal, thus leading to an earlier free monument and even more surprise that I lost the GL race. Point taken though, I'm going to try to wean myself off of going for it every game and try a different approach, especially as I try higher diff levels.

Thanks again!
 
GL is gone on deity at turn 30~40. You can't even dream of getting it. I wouldn't recommend it on immortal either.
 
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