A Strange Question for A Strange "Forum"

Yes, it's good to be back!

I am again relearning BTS after a short break. Then, I stumbled across the Roman UB. Some say it is overrated. So to summarize what the Roman Forum gives:

• +25% Gold
• Can turn 2 citizens into Merchants
• +1 Happiness from Fur, Ivory, Silk, Whale
• +25% Great Person birth rate

Now, I was wondering what does the +25% GP birth rate give in actual terms??

This link tells the mechanics of GPP (but outdated for BTS):
GPP explained

From what I recall from BTS. The birth chance is based on the total points for each type, not the number of source-turns for each type.

For a city with forum building (ignoring wonders, traits and civics), running 2 scientists gives a +1 scientist GPP (3 scientist GPP * 2 * 0.25 then rounded down). Sounds easy right? But, what happens if I run 1 scientist and 1 priest, what GPP does it produce?

a) +1 GPP with 50/50 chance of scientist or priest (That means if I click next turn the odds might be 43% GS and 57% GPro assuming the +GPP is a priest point)? So if I turn on the random seed on reload, the odds can be reversed if I reload n number of times?
b) +1 GPP of scientist point, because the game favors some specialist over the other (like when you activate the governor it prioritizes spy > engineer > scientist > merchant > artists > priests in that fashion)
c) +0.5 scientist point and +0.5 priest point... okay maybe my formula is wrong all this time.

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How about running 1 scientist, 1 merchant, 1 spy and 1 artist?

aside from the possibilities stated above, does it produce +2GPP of homogeneous or heterogeneous type (like +2GPP scientist vs +1GPP scientist +1GPP Spy)?


Thoughts?

From what I've understood, the interface claims that "The birth chance is based on the total points for each type", but in reality it is based on "the number of source-turns for each type".

If that is incorrect, my money is on alternative C.

sampsa said:

From what I've understood, the interface claims that "The birth chance is based on the total points for each type", but in reality it is based on "the number of source-turns for each type".

Click to expand...

I was told this was a bug that has been fixed quite a while ago.

Forum acts like Parthenon or NE with the exception, that it gives 0GGP itself.

So, it doesn't influence on birth probability, just makes the birth faster.

Yes I think that "the number of source-turns for each type" was changed to "The birth chance is based on the total points for each type" on BTS.

Iwo Jima said:

Forum acts like Parthenon or NE with the exception, that it gives 0GGP itself.

So, it doesn't influence on birth probability, just makes the birth faster.

Click to expand...

If it does not generate GPP based from the specialists I run (in my 1st example a scientist and a priest), doesn't it sound contradictory that it makes the birth faster?



Take a look at this (hypothetical):



The interface says, it generates 7GPP. We know that running a specialist is 3GPP. Doesn't it clearly shows that the forum generates 1GPP here?? So my original question is what type of GPP does it generate?

I'm not sure what is tricky here. It adds 25% to GPP generation, like a poor National Epic, except there is no extra from the building itself.

That said, I'm not sure which would be chosen when you have a scientist and priest like in the above screenshot. But that can be answered by hitting next turn and checking the percentages. The game rounds down, so you don't get 1.5 extra (6x1.25=7.5), but only 1.

Maybe the percentage still stays at 50/50, but you get the extra per turn. Unless you run more specialists of course. Run four for instance, and you get 15 instead of 12.

The %'s would be calculated using the base GPPs. There's no reason to factor multipliers into that calculation.

elitetroops said:

I was told this was a bug that has been fixed quite a while ago.

Click to expand...

Makes sense, I've been reading the forums a long time so my brain is cluttered with old info.

Izuul said:

The %'s would be calculated using the base GPPs. There's no reason to factor multipliers into that calculation.

Click to expand...

Lots of reason... Multipliers vary over time, as do the base GPPs you produce. Typical situation, city has been slowly producing prophet points for ages through oracle, then you start GA, switch to caste/paci and run 8 scientists until GP is born.

Good point. Adding a new multiplier b/t great people would change things. I would assume the chance just uses fractions then.

pandamancer said:

Yes I think that "the number of source-turns for each type" was changed to "The birth chance is based on the total points for each type" on BTS.



If it does not generate GPP based from the specialists I run (in my 1st example a scientist and a priest), doesn't it sound contradictory that it makes the birth faster?



Take a look at this (hypothetical):



The interface says, it generates 7GPP. We know that running a specialist is 3GPP. Doesn't it clearly shows that the forum generates 1GPP here?? So my original question is what type of GPP does it generate?

Click to expand...

There are two different parametres: speed of birth and distribution(probability) of birth

Speed - how soon you get GP. Doesn't matter, how you get GPP, you just count it. The higher, the better.

Distibution - what type of GP you get finally. And here you count ratio of different sources (or ratio of sums different GPPs). But you can skip multipliers here, because they do not influence on ratio.

So, the answer on your question - this 1GPP is of no type. And it doesn't influence on GP distribution.

It's overrated because it's a market. If you're blessed with resources that give you +3 or +4 happiness for building them, go right ahead, it's a pretty efficient happiness building when you consider the gold in addition to that. Normally, however, you have better alternatives for those . The GPP isn't completely worthless, but it's not a great amount either, so as a UB this isn't giving you anything on the order of what the really good UBs give.

Of course, people don't pick Rome to build forums. Forums benefit from the halo effect a bit I suspect.

Of course, people don't pick Rome to build forums.

Click to expand...

Amen.

TheMeInTeam said:

Forums benefit from the halo effect a bit I suspect.

Click to expand...

Just checking--but the halo effect would be, people think forums are better than they are because Praetorians are really good?