Unique Improvement Elimination Thread

Philipum · Oct 10, 2012

I think there are only three unique improvements in G&K:

Polder: +3 :c5food:

from marshes and flood plains (requires guilds)
Moai: + 1 :c5culture:

from coast, +1 additional :c5culture:

per adjacent moai (requires construction)
Terrace farm: + 1 :c5food:

from hills, +1 additional :c5food:

per adjacent mountain (requires construction)

Now what about ranking them? Which one do you prefer or dislike most?

Same rules than other similar threads, +1 vote for the one you like and -4 vote for the one you dislike. Give reasons.

Philipum · Oct 10, 2012

I may just as well start since I tested all three of them.

Polder 20
Moai 16 (-4)
Terrace farm 21 (+1)

I found Moai was not very useful since it prevents you from building mines or farms from which you would get additional :c5food:

and

to grow your city and build wonders or culture buidings. The use is thus limited to coastal cities with lots of sea food resources.

Terrace farm is really cool, can potentially provide up to 6 additional :c5food:

and makes you build cities in locations you would normally not consider. Alos, it requires only construction, while polder requires guilds.

Dogmouth · Oct 10, 2012

Not to be a killjoy, but terrace farms are the obvious winner. Moais are only useful in exceptional terrain where you can jam a whole bunch together. Even in that scenario, the food and hammer hit is too great.

Polders are fine, but guilds don't come as early as construction, and what the heck are you going to do with all of that trash marshland while you're teching to guilds? Moreover, the Dutch don't have a starting bias that would put them near floodplains or marshes.

Polder 20
Moai 12 (-4)
Terrace farm 22 (+1)

Snoopaloop · Oct 10, 2012

I've been enjoying the elimination threads, but is this one necessary?

kamex · Oct 10, 2012

Snoopaloop said:
I've been enjoying the elimination threads, but is this one necessary?

No.

The order is already obvious:

Inca, Dutch, Poly

OmniPotent42 · Oct 10, 2012

kamex said:
No.

The order is already obvious:

Inca, Dutch, Poly

Agreed. Although Polders are the prettiest UI.

God of Kings · Oct 10, 2012

No point in voting.

As many others have said: Inca, Netherlands, Polynesia.

Terrace Farms provide so much food in marginal terrain, Polders require a Medieval-era tech and leaving marshes undrained in the meantime, and Moais sacrifice so much food and production and requires so much coastline to be effective.

mintcandy · Oct 10, 2012

Polders are the obvious loser, because they aren't additive like adjacent Moai are, and the hill tiles that Terrace Farms are built on still produce hammers...unlike Polders.

Moreover, other civs have a lot of motivation to remove marshes, which reduces the amount of places Polders that can be built. In contrast, other civs CAN'T eliminate tiles when Moai and Terrace Farms can be built.

Terrace Farms are better than Moai, because Terrace Farms drastically increase the most fundamental ingredient of EVERY great city: food. Culture, combat and gold bonuses are nice, but it just can't compete with increasing the food yield of hill tiles while still retaining the same amount of hammers.

OmniPotent42 · Oct 10, 2012

mintcandy said:
Polders are the obvious loser, because they aren't additive like adjacent Moai are, and the hill tiles that Terrace Farms are built on still produce hammers...unlike Polders.

Terrace Farms are better than Moai, because Terrace Farms drastically increase the most fundamental ingredient of EVERY great city: food. Culture, combat and gold bonuses are nice, but it just can't compete with increasing the food yield of hill tiles while still retaining the same amount of hammers.

I admit that terrace farms are by far the most useful.

However, polders have the potential to yield the most benefits of ANY improved terrain, making them much more useful than Moai's. Polders add +3 food to a tile at guilds technology, and then at economics add +1 :c5production:

and +2

. And if that's a flood plain tile, add a hydro dam, golden age, and pantheon and you could get a tile like this:
5 :c5food:

2

4

1

I'd take that tile over a terrace farm any day, and I'd for sure rather have that than grassland tiles that just yields additional culture and potentially more money in the extremely late game.

mintcandy · Oct 10, 2012

OmniPotent42 said:
I admit that terrace farms are by far the most useful.

However, polders have the potential to yield the most benefits of ANY improved terrain, making them much more useful than Moai's. Polders add +3 food to a tile at guilds technology, and then at economics add +1 and +2 . And if that's a flood plain tile, add a hydro dam, golden age, and pantheon and you could get a tile like this:
5 2 4 1

I'll admit that I may have been hasty in stating my reasons for preferring Moai over Polders, but I still prefer the Terrace Farm's ability to make barren terrain hospitable for large cities.

Sure, the Polder has much better potential than a Terrace Farm does, but the Polder has to rely on conditions (riverside tiles) that are already ideal for large cities.

The Polder merely enhances city growth in areas where it would've happened already. The Terrace Farm ENABLES city growth in areas where it wouldn't have been possible.

Dogmouth · Oct 10, 2012

OmniPotent42 said:
I admit that terrace farms are by far the most useful.

However, polders have the potential to yield the most benefits of ANY improved terrain, making them much more useful than Moai's. Polders add +3 food to a tile at guilds technology, and then at economics add +1 and +2 . And if that's a flood plain tile, add a hydro dam, golden age, and pantheon and you could get a tile like this:
5 2 4 1

I'd take that tile over a terrace farm any day, and I'd for sure rather have that than grassland tiles that just yields additional culture and potentially more money in the extremely late game.

If you want to talk about perfect conditions, riverside terrace farms can yield +5 :c5food:

from mountains, +1 :c5food:

base, and +1 :c5food:

at civil service. If the hill in question is a desert hill, you can add another 2 :c5production:

(Petra & hydro dam), 1 :c5faith:

(pantheon), another 1 :c5gold:

, and another 1 :c5faith:

. Throw in an a strategic resource discovered after construction (does not appear in flood plains) for another :c5production:

and a golden age and you get:

8 :c5food:

, 5

, 3

, 1

.

Of course, such hypotheticals don't reflect game realities...

CanaDutch · Oct 10, 2012

Maybe the unique improvements should've been a part of the unique buildings thread to get a better idea of how good of a unique feature it is of the civilization who has the UI.

mintcandy · Oct 10, 2012

CanaDutch said:
Maybe the unique improvements should've been a part of the unique buildings thread to get a better idea of how good of a unique feature it is of the civilization who has the UI.

:: shrugs ::

Unique Improvements tend to outshine Unique Buildings, because one can only build a Unique Building once per city, but can (potentially) build Unique Improvements many times per city.

Halcyan2 · Oct 10, 2012

I dislike Elimination threads.

However, on the general question of which UI is best:

I think Terrace Farms win hands down. Polders are second. And Moai are the weakest.

OmniPotent42 · Oct 12, 2012

Dogmouth said:
If you want to talk about perfect conditions, riverside terrace farms can yield +5 from mountains, +1 base, and +1 at civil service. If the hill in question is a desert hill, you can add another 2 (Petra & hydro dam), 1 (pantheon), another 1, and another 1. Throw in an a strategic resource discovered after construction (does not appear in flood plains) for another and a golden age and you get:

8, 5, 3 , 1.

Of course, such hypotheticals don't reflect game realities...

Yeah, but isn't it one per mountain? Which means you'd have 6 useless mountain tiles in your territory. I admit that Polder sites are quite rare sometimes, but the potential yeilds are FAR better than moais.

OmniPotent42 · Oct 12, 2012

mintcandy said:
I'll admit that I may have been hasty in stating my reasons for preferring Moai over Polders, but I still prefer the Terrace Farm's ability to make barren terrain hospitable for large cities.

Sure, the Polder has much better potential than a Terrace Farm does, but the Polder has to rely on conditions (riverside tiles) that are already ideal for large cities.

The Polder merely enhances city growth in areas where it would've happened already. The Terrace Farm ENABLES city growth in areas where it wouldn't have been possible.

Unique Improvement Elimination Thread

Philipum

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Philipum

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Dogmouth

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Snoopaloop

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kamex

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OmniPotent42

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mintcandy

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OmniPotent42

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mintcandy

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Dogmouth

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OmniPotent42

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