[Vote] (5-73) France UA/UI Rework+Changes and Hunnic UA/UU/UI Rework+Changes

[Enginseer]

I will sponsor it fully now.

 

[besset]

I honestly think the previous France UA is more interesting. Its so fun to go ceremonial burial + authority + crusader king and go on an absolute conquering spree when the musketeer's come online in early renassaince. The stacked city capture bonuses are so fun, especially with the newly spawned GWAM's and even more from ceremonial burial when you pop them. You can get perma 40% & starting in early renassaince, which is very strong and remains very strong the entirety of the game. The civ is very weak early though, but the huge midgame bonuses make up for it. You just have to survive until medieval/renaissance and play very defensively, it's like a minigame in and of itself because France is probably the weakest early civ. But yeah, the late power spike makes this civ quite inconsitent, because if you get a tough start it will be incredibly difficult to win.

I do think the new UA works towards fixing the Civ's early weakness, the civ really has nothing going for it pre medieval. The early weakness makes the civ much worse because early bonuses are usually the best kind, especially on higher difficulties. But the capturing units bonus might still be quite risky/hard to make use of, what about giving the capture unit promotion some extra 10% combat strength or something? I think it would help smooth out the mechanic and potentially make it easier to use, because France has no early UU to make use of the promotion.

Even though this new UA starts earlier than the previous UA, it seems like it will fall off quite quicky though. You also miss out on the 40% bonus which is a huge nerf starting in midgame. If we're changing the UA, I feel like something additional could be added. Maybe still keep the old UA & city capture bonuses and combine it with the new UA but with lower percentages? Or just keep the part.

Some other bonuses that could potentially be added:

• Make the captured unit's not cost unit maintenanence, or maybe something like 50% reduction? I could see France struggling with gold when trying to maximize the new UA, and gold is already hard for warmonger civs
• Move chateau's earlier to help with the early game?? This would help with gold in the early game. Although not sure if this makes sense thematically
• Science is very good for warmongers, maybe some early science bonus?

 

[Enginseer]

I honestly think the previous France UA is more interesting. Its so fun to go ceremonial burial + authority + crusader king and go on an absolute conquering spree when the musketeer's come online in early renassaince. The stacked city capture bonuses are so fun, especially with the newly spawned GWAM's and even more from ceremonial burial when you pop them. You can get perma 40% & starting in early renassaince, which is very strong and remains very strong the entirety of the game. The civ is very weak early though, but the huge midgame bonuses make up for it. You just have to survive until medieval/renaissance and play very defensively, it's like a minigame in and of itself because France is probably the weakest early civ. But yeah, the late power spike makes this civ quite inconsitent, because if you get a tough start it will be incredibly difficult to win.

While I agree, the France UA lacked a way for them to get that UA. If you win hard, you win hard. You lose hard, you lose hard. There's no in-between.

I do think the new UA works towards fixing the Civ's early weakness, the civ really has nothing going for it pre medieval. The early weakness makes the civ much worse because early bonuses are usually the best kind, especially on higher difficulties. But the capturing units bonus might still be quite risky/hard to make use of, what about giving the capture unit promotion some extra 10% combat strength or something? I think it would help smooth out the mechanic and potentially make it easier to use, because France has no early UU to make use of the promotion.

In a separate proposal, captured units will be able to retain their full moves (but cannot attack), so they can pillage the tile they were formerly defending or run away fast. France generally does not need the early UU to use this promotion since they should be capturing barbarian and city-state units with this concept.

Even though this new UA starts earlier than the previous UA, it seems like it will fall off quite quicky though. You also miss out on the 40% bonus which is a huge nerf starting in midgame. If we're changing the UA, I feel like something additional could be added. Maybe still keep the old UA & city capture bonuses and combine it with the new UA but with lower percentages? Or just keep the part.

It seems to catch up pretty well based on tests from my mod and other users' experience of using that mod. It scales with the # of Cities and eventually, you are able to use the Culture generated to convert into Tourism. Hence, it eventually becomes +1 Tourism in every City with a Hotel for every 40 Military Units. Not to mention, you'll make a lot of Culture in the early game letting you dominate harder in Cultural Victory.

• Make the captured unit's not cost unit maintenanence, or maybe something like 50% reduction? I could see France struggling with gold when trying to maximize the new UA, and gold is already hard for warmonger civs

That is the balancing factor to keep France in control of its large army. If they passively use it to convert into Culture, they'll pay some in Gold.

• Move chateau's earlier to help with the early game?? This would help with gold in the early game. Although not sure if this makes sense thematically

You are right.

• Science is very good for warmongers, maybe some early science bonus?

I don't think that's necessary if you're going Authority. Capturing units still count as killed yields.

 

[pineappledan]

All of this code will remain intact in the DLL. You can revert back to the old France if you really like it.

The GWAM bonus remains on Japan. If you particularly like that reward you can still enjoy it there. If I am permitted a shameless plug, my Goths Mod (link in my signature) makes use of the % On conquest bonus, so you can still enjoy that there. In my opinion, the rest of the Goth kit does a much better job of synergizing and supporting that bonus, and creates a more rounded civ than the current France.

Move chateau's earlier to help with the early game?? This would help with gold in the early game. Although not sure if this makes sense thematically

Even where they are now is a massive anachronism. The abilities on the Chateaux also don't make sense (manor homes are not defensive fortifications).
Could change the name of the Chateau to 'Castle' and change the Castle UB to 'Stronghold' and both would have better theme.

 

[Rekk]

Chivalry also reduces this build time to 400.

This is such a random fluff ability.

 

[pineappledan]

It’s actually pretty important, because the high build time for the eki makes it harder to place for border blob.

 

[Rekk]

It’s actually pretty important, because the high build time for the eki makes it harder to place for border blob.

The proposed reduction from 800 to 500 is not enough? It needs to be reduced by 20% more in medieval?

 

[Zuizgond]

To be honest I'm not sure capturing units really fits the french theme here...

 

[KlHannibal2]

To be honest I'm not sure capturing units really fits the french theme here...

Same feeling. But I love the multi attack bonus on the Huns. It's a much better fit gameplay-wise than it was for France. A skirmisher army can use it much better than an infantry army.