Fresol
Angry Halfling in Green
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2011
- Messages
- 2,207
so i decided to try out phoenicia just to see how they played... (and i know they arent up to DoC specs yet)
so some things are horribly wrong.
1) weird trade things/underwhelming UP/UB: so I have Kition (founded on copper on Crete), Carthage, and Carthago Nova, and Great Lighthouse. this should mean 3 trade routes per city! I have open borders with greece, egypt, and persia, so there are lots of choices for these routes. by my count, i should be earning 21 gold per turn from trade (based on the provided totals in the city screen) yet i'm losing 3 gpt! in the interior advisor screen, I am told that this cost is due to city maintenance costs of... 3gpt. and thats it! when i WB'd in glasssmiths to all 3 cities, my income (with 4 routes per city) rose to... -3 gpt! STILL! so it seems that not only does the UP kinda suck, but the UB does as well! I get that the commerce goes to science, but still. it feels like my trade routes are worthless, especially as city maintenance eats up almost half my profits.
2) useless UU: the bireme is sorta better than a galley, but absolutely worse than a trireme... against both galleys and triremes. and i'll only ever have to deal with triremes anyway, whether barb, roman, or greek. even if i have to face a galley, theres no reason not to use triremes. and since the Poeni are dependent on trade, ill have OB with everyone anyway, negating the other facet of the bireme.
3) UHV's: 1) control 5 cities: between levant, africa, spain, and need for dyes, easy enough. 2) control 4 dyes: this is actually pretty tough, since only 2 dyes are consistently easily available. its pretty common that egypts dye is free, but you will NEED to fight rome (or persia) for the last dye in the accessible world. and while this is good, its extremely hard right now, as ill get to. 3) biggest map: easy, but meh.
suggestions:
UP: trade routes generate gold instead of/in addition to commerce. im not sure which is better, but essentially carthage/phoenicia should be rich, not necessarily advanced. so i think gold over commerce should work for this.
UB: Why glasssmith? I dont think that phoenician glass was as big as the purple industry anyway, so why is this the UB? I think an interesting idea would be to have the UB as "Temple of Baal" which replaces the pagan temple and provides +1 trade routes. it would be available earlier (so it would actually be useful) and would be more in line with the theme of phoenicia (while still having essentially the same effect as the glasssmith)
UU: while i understand the desire to use a ship UU, i dont see it as that realistic. phoenician ships/crews werent THAT much better than greek counterparts, though there were marginally better. And while i think the current UU does capture this unimpressive distinction, i think there are more interesting units to use. I would not use an elephant replacement, because they didnt really make that big a difference/werent that unique to carthage. I wouldnt use Numid. merc's, because Rome used them just as effectively (maybe add this unit to the mercenary pool?) Instead i would use the "Sacred Band", a spearman replacement with +1 strength (5 total) and the amphibious promotion. seems useful, interesting, and accurate. OR a swordsman replacement (even if spearman graphics) without the city attack bonus, but +1 strength (so 7) and amphibious. The latter would probably be better, as it would sync up with carthaginian dates better (ie you'd have to research iron working) and it would give carthage a chance against Rome while not being overpowered or guaranteeing victory.
UHV's:
1) found 5 coastal medit. cities (rather than just control... i think this represents phoenician colonization better) by 100 BCE... seems reasonable
2) I like the dye UHV too... i say keep it as is. with the UU, UB, and UP changes, this should be more fun and feasible.
3) control the entire western med. by say... 300 AD. or Eliminate Rome.
(i think all these dates are sorta off... the phoenicians should spawn in 1000 bce, not 1200. they should really have to colonize by say, 300 BCE, and they should have to eliminate Rome/control the Med by 100 BCE. I know this makes them a very short play, but i think that would be exciting!)
what do you think of these proposed changes?
Why don't you just turn science slider down? What are you trying to say?