SGOTM 20 - Civ Geeks United

I can get behind currency.

A shrine will ultimately bring in a lot if gold, but will not pay off for 50-60 turns. We need to push our advantage now.

For the timing of the GA, do what seems best based on whips and population growth. Unfortunately, I don't see any civic changes. That does beg the question as to whether we should table a GA for monotheism/theology/pacifism switch and religion switch?

Only one fur needs a road, the one south of Alderaan.

I was pillaging his roads 7-8 tiles west of Tatooine. He was routing between cities and u was just making him waste worker turns.
 
shulec said:
I can get behind currency.
Click to expand...

Ok, I can move stables back in the build order and do Currency -> HBR -> Construction.

shulec said:
A shrine will ultimately bring in a lot if gold, but will not pay off for 50-60 turns. We need to push our advantage now.

For the timing of the GA, do what seems best based on whips and population growth. Unfortunately, I don't see any civic changes. That does beg the question as to whether we should table a GA for monotheism/theology/pacifism switch and religion switch?
Click to expand...

I agree about pushing now and using the Golden Age to accelerate our elephant/cat army. It's true we might miss out on civic switches. If Monarchy or CoL can be traded for, we might have options. Still not ideal, but getting a GPro 30 turns before we can get a holy city is a curse we have to make the best of.

shulec said:
Only one fur needs a road, the one south of Alderaan.
Click to expand...

All right. We can always come back and road the other one after we make a trade.
 
My preference by order:

bulbing theo. We need the tech for religious victory. only poly and mono te get (we need that for temples anyways)

settling the GP. A GA will not give us mutch at this point while 5g+2H per turn up to the end of the game could be very strong.

wait for monarchy and then we launch the GA. could be nice than just launch it for just the gold/hammer bonus.

EDIT:
I've been thinking about astronomy. We know we can reach all AI without it but we also know mapmaker are evil (or super Evil, to be determined) -> I guess at least one holy barb city will be away from our continent-> I guess we will need astro.
 
astre said:
My preference by order:

bulbing theo. We need the tech for religious victory. only poly and mono te get (we need that for temples anyways)

settling the GP. A GA will not give us mutch at this point while 5g+2H per turn up to the end of the game could be very strong.

wait for monarchy and then we launch the GA. could be nice than just launch it for just the gold/hammer bonus.

EDIT:
I've been thinking about astronomy. We know we can reach all AI without it but we also know mapmaker are evil (or super Evil, to be determined) -> I guess at least one holy barb city will be away from our continent-> I guess we will need astro.
Click to expand...

We have a direct conflict of interest between bulbing Theology and bulbing Astronomy. In order to bulb Astro, we can't research CoL, Theology, or CS (We could do CoL if we then researched Philo).

I think the early Astro bulb has too high of a price. There are many objectives we can work on just within the mainland. I think we can afford to research Astro manually when the time comes.

As for the GPro, I am biased toward a GA because I want to get more $#!t done during my turnset. I'll leave it to the rest of you to figure out where we come down on that. However, I will add this bit of information to the discussion: I counted all the tiles that would get an extra :hammers: and an extra :commerce: (I assumed we would wait a few turns for growth). When you multiply by 8 turns you get 312:hammers: and 328:commerce:. That seems awfully strong against a settled GP that would take 65 turns to make us that much money and 156 turns for that many hammers.
 
you forgot the multiplier (x2 for a bureau cap for exemple) :p

we don't care to bulb for astro, we will tech it when needed, before it is a complete waste.

The more i think about, the more i like bulbing theo.
 
astre said:
you forgot the multiplier (x2 for a bureau cap for exemple) :p
Click to expand...

I don't think bureau actually helps, since it is :gold: not :commerce:. However, I did ignore the fact that we'll have a Market in another 10 or 15 turns. I suppose it would get you 3:hammers: instead of 2, though. That seems to be beside the point now, anyway.

There's no direct way to compare a GA with bulbing Theology. If we are going for Religious victory, then yes, we should bulb Theo. I still have some lingering doubts about Religious victory being easier, but that probably comes from not having played for Religious victory more than once or twice.
 
it is the most easy victory ever. especially when you control all religions.
 
zbgayumn said:
PPP T92-T105 ​

Turnset Goals
Improve economy through techs, tile selection, and trade
Found GP Farms on sites (relatively) close to capital
Build Triremes to take control of inland sea
Prepare galleys for elephant/cat assault
Build stables in production cities

Cities

GC - Forge to T96, Axe to T99, Spear to T103, Stable two Sci Specialists at all times

Midgar – Trireme to T93, WB to T95, Trireme to T99, Settler gets whipped on T102, Trireme to T104, WB then Galley
Work fish net T95, run Engineer

Tatooine – Colossus to T95, WB to T97, Lighthouse to T100, Library

Death Star – Settler to T94, Axe to T97, Archer to T99, Spear to T102, Settler to T106, Stable

Endor – Barracks to T94, Chariot to T97, Archer to T100, Axe to T103, Stable

Dagobah - lighthouse to T93, Forge, whip on T97, Barracks to T100, Axe to T103, Settler for 1 turn then whip

Jabba's Palace – Granary to T94, WB to T100, Lighthouse
Work mine on T98, work on Iron on T100, work cottage T101, work whale T104

Alderaan – Granary to T101, Library

Gondor – Settled T95, Library

Caemlyn – Settled T104, Monument

Settler built on T105 in Death Star, Settler built on T105 in Dagobah

Courthouses may take priority if we can trade for CoL

City micro:
Straightforward, start to emphasize cottages in Jabba's Palace, Tatooine, and Midgar as we run out of other improved tiles. Use whip sparingly for now.

Commerce Cities – GC, Tatooine, JP, Alderaan
GP Farms – Gondor, Caemlyn, GC (sort of)
Production Cities – Death Star, Endor, Dagobah, Midgar (naval)

Tech
100% Currency to T98
100% HBR to T102
Go to 0% and save for Construction

Must trade for Math by T105
Trade for Polytheism and see if anyone has Monotheism
Trade for CoL, Monarchy if they become available

Workers
Cid – Stay around GC; Cottage T92, Road T96, Cottage T98, Cottage T103
Rand – Stay around Dagobah; Cottage T92, move to 2N1W of Dagobah T96, chop T97, New road to Endor T100-T105
The Doctor – Move to 4N of Dagobah, chop T92, move 1S, chop T95, move to 1N1W of Silver, road T98, Farm near Midgar? T100, move to GHF near Endor T104, chop T105
Dorrin – Move 1N1E, road 1t, move to Iron, mine T93, move to GHF T97, chop T98, Mine T101, move to GHF T102, chop T103
C3PO (Worker 2) – Move to PHF T92, prechop T93, move to PHF T95, prechop T96, finish chops if Math is in T99-T102
Obi Wan (Worker) – Move to other Fur T93, camp T94, road T98, Move toward JP T100, Farm T101
The Master – move to 1S of Silver T95, chop T96, mine T99, move toward Caemlyn 103, move GHF T104, chop T105
R2D2 – Move to horse, road 1t T93, Move 1E, Farm T94, finish road 1W T98, move to 1S of Gondor T99, chop T100, mine T103

Settlers
#1 – Found Gondor on northern coast between Tatooine and JP
#2 – Found Caemlyn E of GC (3E or 4E?) Both are good GP Farms, 3E allows another city to be squeezed in NE of Caemlyn
#3 & #4 can be moved next turnset

Chariots & Scout
Injured chariot heal, try to get increased visibility. Promote to flanking. (4/2 XP currently).
Far east chariot keep exploring. Keep mapping the continent.

Resource Trade
No change until Currency in, then look for cash trades with AC, Churchill, Louis

Diplo
Future partners: Augustus, Churchill, Louis (Napoleon is worst enemy of Louis and Victoria.)
Accept tech demands from Louis, Augustus.
Cancel OB with Julius, or wait for AC demand?
If Louis DOWs Napoleon, accept demand to join war, then consider bribing Churchill in too.
Decline Julius request to stop trading with Augustus. (again)
Increase power rating with a few Axes/Chariots to deter Suleiman from DoW

Great People

Keep GPro until we can use him to bulb Theology
Keep generating GS points in Geek Central
Click to expand...

Here's an update that I think reflects the discussion so far. My apologies if I butchered the worker micro. I tried to adjust the spreadsheet to shulec's amendments and then type them back out. Two chances for mistakes to be made.
 
Here is another thought. We want to take the easiest holy city first. Is the hindu really the easiest? The Christian holy city might be easier. A small stack of horse archers could take it down. Food for thought. I will try to get a pick posted to see if defenses are 100%.
 
astre said:
it is the most easy victory ever. especially when you control all religions.
Click to expand...

We want two early religions. One to spam to our friends for diplo, and one to keep to ourselves and build the AP in. If we take the Christian Holy city, we can try to gift away a city to Louis for diplo trade bonus and reduced maintenance.
 
zbgayumn said:
Here's an update that I think reflects the discussion so far. My apologies if I butchered the worker micro. I tried to adjust the spreadsheet to shulec's amendments and then type them back out. Two chances for mistakes to be made.
Click to expand...

I am not a huge fan of all of the axes. I would rather garrison with archers. We have the capacity to crank units out quickly if need be. I am not a huge fan of the two spears, but respect the idea of a spear on each front.
 
shulec said:
I am not a huge fan of all of the axes. I would rather garrison with archers. We have the capacity to crank units out quickly if need be. I am not a huge fan of the two spears, but respect the idea of a spear on each front.
Click to expand...

I believe it's 4 Axes and 2 Archers right now. I'm fine with flipping that to 4 Archers and 2 Axes.

Suly doesn't have horses, IIRC, so maybe the southern spear should be something else. Another chariot so we get the big bonus against Axes?
 
shulec said:
Here is another thought. We want to take the easiest holy city first. Is the hindu really the easiest? The Christian holy city might be easier. A small stack of horse archers could take it down. Food for thought. I will try to get a pick posted to see if defenses are 100%.
Click to expand...

I think it would be worth it regardless of whether the HA's get there before the elephants get to the hindu city. Marching elephants way over there would take forever.

I believe Construction is only 4 turns at 100%, but we also run out of money before we can finish it. It's probably 6-7 turns between HBR and Construction, that's enough time for a few HA's, but not really a stack. We would have to decide to stick with HA's for like 3-4 more turns before switching over elephants.

Like you said in your other post, we need two religions early. It doesn't matter if we lose a few turns taking the hindu city, if we gain a lot turns taking the christian city.
 
zbgayumn said:
I believe it's 4 Axes and 2 Archers right now. I'm fine with flipping that to 4 Archers and 2 Axes.

Suly doesn't have horses, IIRC, so maybe the southern spear should be something else. Another chariot so we get the big bonus against Axes?
Click to expand...

Neither Suleiman nor Louis have iron or swords because they don't have IW. Axes are only beneficial to counter them. Per:hammers:, archers are the best counter.
1-2 spears are fine for Louis.

zbgayumn said:
I think it would be worth it regardless of whether the HA's get there before the elephants get to the hindu city. Marching elephants way over there would take forever.

I believe Construction is only 4 turns at 100%, but we also run out of money before we can finish it. It's probably 6-7 turns between HBR and Construction, that's enough time for a few HA's, but not really a stack. We would have to decide to stick with HA's for like 3-4 more turns before switching over elephants.

Like you said in your other post, we need two religions early. It doesn't matter if we lose a few turns taking the hindu city, if we gain a lot turns taking the christian city.
Click to expand...

Good call!

As promised:
Spoiler :


Green for whatever final PPP you decide upon. Good luck. If you can try to give a time you will play. I love to follow along online.
 
here is what i had in mind:

Midgar – axe - trireme...
Endor – archer - Barracks ...
Dagobah - archer - lighthouse, forget forge,
Jabba's Palace – archer granary
Alderaan – archer - Granary

we need the army now and not in 5 turns. do not build a forge now, it's too late
order of production at this point : MP(archer), granary/lighthouse, barack/stable for prod city or library for commerce city, armies, failed gold wonder, gold/research.

The army to prepare is for defence at this point, we don't need that much. 3 axes in total should be enought (1 for each border city) with HBR, some stabled HA are the priority (for christian holy)

with currency online, sell old techs as soon as they can be sold for 30g (higher is better of course ^^)
 
Ok, the forge would be nice to have in dagobah, but it's not essential. Deathstar will build units for Jabba's and Alderaan. Midgar doesn't need those triremes quite so soon, so a defender there is no problem.

I can play tonight - basically 12 hours from now. I'll probably go until Currency is in, and then pause to evaluate the new trade options.
 
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