Originally posted by PCHighway
Sorry for not keeping up with the replies....
No worries, man.
Originally posted by The Last Conformist
I wouldn't object to the various evil 3rd Age factions getting "Angbandic" units in the 1st Age. I would object to, say, Angmar getting a unit called "Orcs of Morgul". ... As said, I'll complain if we get "Mordorian Orcs of Angmar" or the like.
Gotcha. I don't want Third-Age contemporaries having each other's units either. Angband-y
)) units would be good for 1st Age units for Mordor & Angmar, that's agreed then. Not quite sure what to do for Angmar in the Second Age, perhaps giving them "Mountain Orcs" (think Gundabad, Misty Mountains, etc.) would be the right idea...
Originally posted by The Last Conformist
I don't really see that a progression "Orc Axeman" -> "Orc Swordsman" or some such really indicates technological progress; swords and axes belong to about the same technological level, as do most of the "medieval" weaponry that's relevant for LotR. I was thinking the names were simply going to follow the graphics.
Hmmm, yeah. Fair enough, although in regular Civ this is precisely what the progression from Archer to Spearman to Swordsman to Pikeman to Longbowman (etc.) is supposed to indicate, namely progressing technological prowess. If I can avoid even a hint of that, then I will. Plus, I'm not so comfy with having the graphics dictate what the unit names should be...us modders should be in charge of that, not the guys who make the graphics that we have available (as great as those guys are)!
Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Edit: Re: snaga, I'm aware of its usage as an insult, but I'm not entirely happy with the thought it would be the name for what'll be the best Orc unit in its role in its time. No big deal, however.
Good point, pertaining to PCH's original list? On my ordering, the snagga as the default unit (attack & defense value of 1) might be the best orc unit of its time...but that's relative, and most players will be concerned to upgrade to a better orc unit in a hurry! I mean, I think it best to call our
weakest overall orc unit a snaga. (I notice you've been spelling it correctly, and I haven't!
)
Originally posted by The Last Conformist
Yrch, BTW, is plural. The singular is orch.
Good call. PCH is right, though, it doesn't have the same ring. I suppose if we did keep this word as the moniker for our default orc unit, we could do a Multi-Unit of that little wee "snotling" graphic and that could justify the plural...? Like a little pack of piranhas...
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Re: Mornhothic (
) Cavalry... I recall that the Rohirrim complained of Mordor raiding their lands for horses in the Two Towers. Or was it that Wormtounge had arranged some sort of "trade" agreement with Mordor for horses? I can't recall
why exactly Mordor wanted them. Did Mordor need stock to breed the original Ringwraith steeds with? Was Mordor using them to mount Southon or Easterlings on them? The Mouth of Sauron rode a horse, but he's hardly typical...
At any rate, I can't imagine an
orc riding a horse! And typically, I think, if Sauron had any Mannish units fighting for him, they were fighting as "allies" and not under the banner of the Lidless Eye (or the Skull-Moon of Morgul, for that matter). So Southron or Easterling units for Mordor per se would be out, in my books. Although for those civs themselves, I think the mormegil is on the money. Mongol and Arab cavalry would do nicely for Easterlings & Haradrim respectively -- provided we can either show textually, or make a safe assumption that these civs rode horses (instead of just harnessing them to wagons or riding oliphaunts, respectively).
I think [Ant]Wimp's idea, then, is the best for Mordorian cavalry: Wargs (does a "Warg" = "an orc on a wolf [i.e., a 'wolf-rider'], or is a "Warg" a particularly nasty sort of wolf? I forget.
) -- i.e., an orc riding something lupine. (Angmar could have cavalry, I guess. Maybe the Witch King convinced or coerced Mannish leftovers to fight for him?) I don't know what you're on about, PCH, with the Mountain Orcs riding wolves/wargs in the Battle of the Five Armies being their own idea or Sauron's... I'm pretty sure the fact that they DID ride into that battle suggests convincingly that Tolkien did mention those Mountain Orcs mounting wolves/wargs.
Originally posted by PCHighway
I didnt say anything about a possible UU for the Isengard civ, I said something about freeing up graphics, that could be used as a possible UU. If I didnt say it right, thats what I meant .
Ahhh, gotcha. Could have been my misreading, don't worry about it in any case.