How is the AI beating me to wonders, one turn before I get it?

Hey. Well today I had this game where I was going for a cultural victory. I had built a lot of wonders and was doing pretty well. Then one turn before I get the Notre Dame, someone builds it in a far land. Is the AI just cheating?

I mean, I have the +1 production pantheon, the extra production from liberty, the extra wonder production from tradition, the extra production from the golden age, tons of mines and the AI STILL beats me to the Notre Dame.

Needless to say, I just rage quit. How is the AI beating me to wonders? Are they cheating?

In a sense, it's impossible for the computer to cheat but it is given advantages at higher levels. As far as the one turn thing I know what you mean. That drives me crazy. There's a good mod called "Wonder Race" that will give you a warning if you are loosing a wonder race to another player. I use it all of the time.

Essentially, yes, the AI cheats because it plays with a different set of rules than the player at anything beyond Prince level. You didn't say what level you were playing in this game. Likewise, the player gets to cheat at any level below Prince.

However, the AI also prioritizes certain wonders over others. These are usually some of the most powerful wonders, but not all of them. Of course, it will eventually want to build all of them if you allow it to do so. Notre Dame is a very powerful wonder and one of the priorities. You mentioned that you built a lot of wonders, so it is no surprise that the AI beat you to Notre Dame.

At higher levels, you want to plan to get one or two specific wonders up to Renaissance Era, at best. You don't want these to be in the Ancient Era, and probably not in the Classical Era at very high levels. It takes two or three Eras to overcome the initial cheats/handicaps that the AI has from the start.

CivAddict2013 said:

How is the AI beating me to wonders, one turn before I get it?

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You're not very good.

great engineer(s)?

Notre Dame seems to be a highly sought after wonder. For example, usually around the time I get Education on King, Notre Dame is built.

Increase production to be more likely to have a wonder. Aristocracy in the tradition social policy gives you a wonder building increase that could increase your chances of building a wonder. Ais sometimes adopt different social policies. For example, if the other ais adopt honor and you adopt tradition, then you will more likely be able to build the hanging gardens while the ais are more likely to build the average wonders (that don't require a social policy) and the wonder that requires honor.
You can most likely pull this off in the 7 difficulty and any other difficulty below.

You know what drives me more crazy? Failing 3 consequtive 85% coups

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CivAddict2013 said:

Hey. Well today I had this game where I was going for a cultural victory. I had built a lot of wonders and was doing pretty well. Then one turn before I get the Notre Dame, someone builds it in a far land. Is the AI just cheating?

I mean, I have the +1 production pantheon, the extra production from liberty, the extra wonder production from tradition, the extra production from the golden age, tons of mines and the AI STILL beats me to the Notre Dame.

Needless to say, I just rage quit. How is the AI beating me to wonders? Are they cheating?

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Probably your science then. If you took Liberty you'll be a bit behind in science still at medieval, and if the tech leader gets even a 5 turn headstart it's a lot The AI gets 'cheaty bonuses' at the start, but they can't insta-skip to one turn before you without a GE.

AiTenshi1 said:

Essentially, yes, the AI cheats because it plays with a different set of rules than the player at anything beyond Prince level. You didn't say what level you were playing in this game. Likewise, the player gets to cheat at any level below Prince.

However, the AI also prioritizes certain wonders over others. These are usually some of the most powerful wonders, but not all of them. Of course, it will eventually want to build all of them if you allow it to do so. Notre Dame is a very powerful wonder and one of the priorities. You mentioned that you built a lot of wonders, so it is no surprise that the AI beat you to Notre Dame.

At higher levels, you want to plan to get one or two specific wonders up to Renaissance Era, at best. You don't want these to be in the Ancient Era, and probably not in the Classical Era at very high levels. It takes two or three Eras to overcome the initial cheats/handicaps that the AI has from the start.

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Well I play on King.

What wonders should I prioritize for the cultural victory?

If AI beats you to Notre Dame on King, you can restart. You're very late.
You can easily tech Education, after Physics, hard build Notre Dame before AI 95% in time. Sometimes, I lost a wonder for one turn. Sometimes for more.

If you want secure a wonder. Establish embassies and scout caps, looking for wonder in progress. If AI build it, you can't resist to a GE. You can look in diplo screen if it went to liberty and how far from ending. Look also for its wonders, stone hedge, ToA give GE point. So there's a risk.

Civ is a gamble game.

Vitruvius : Less than barbs, less than barbs.

you have a bunch of wonders and ragequit if AI snags one? Seriously?

You beta star priorize the wonders you want and train how to get them early......
Iam playing on King Level to and in the first's times ai make me broke my head....but now aim starting to be sucessful on this wonders thing.....last 5 games i got 3 ToA, 2 GLH, 2 GL, 2 Alhambra (One of my favorites WW), 3 MoH, 4 Brandemburg Gates (This one is allways in my pocket, and yes i love it to), and 2 Machu Pichu (most of the times a get this one to, looks like the AI ignore it most of times, even with 3 montais on is face).....

All others wW are very ocasional for me.......but just focus on some and as for magic the others will come to you....

CivAddict2013 said:

Well I play on King.

What wonders should I prioritize for the cultural victory?

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For theming bonuses:

Great Library(should not be too hard at King), Globe Theater(hard to get above Prince), Sistine Chapel, Uffizi, and NW Oxford and Hermitage. Broadway may or may not be required. Louvre usually not required, but nice.

Also helpful:

NW National College(science), Oracle(free policy + culture + GS point), Hanging Gardens(lots of food), Petra(desert), Hagia Sophia(free Prophet), Forbidden Palace(2 free delegates), Leaning Tower of Pisa(free GP of choice, faster Great People), Eiffel Tower(+12 tourism), and the wonder associated with your ideology(ex. Freedom=Statue of Liberty).

Make sure to follow a science heavy path through the tech tree. Philosophy, Civil Service, Education, Printing Press(if you think you have chance at Globe or you want to host WC), Sci Theory, Archaeology(museums and archaeologists), Radio(Eiffel, Broadway, and Broadcast Towers) and/or Refrigeration(Hotels), Radar(airports), etc.

Of course there are more, and you may not get everything you want, but the key is to get ahead and stay ahead in science so that you can beat AI to wonder techs. They can always GE you though at last minute(1 turn from wonder). This is especially frustrating when they stole the tech from you.

Build and staff universities as soon as available.

CivAddict2013 said:

Well I play on King.

What wonders should I prioritize for the cultural victory?

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The obvious answer is: "wonders that give bonuses to culture." That's somewhat simple, though, due to indirect effects.

You want culture wonders, but you also need the guilds and population for food to support the specialists. You don't need a lot of cities, so you don't need to worry too much about penalties for expansion and domination. Tradition is the go-to start policy, of course. Patronage and Aesthetics can be followed once you start focusing on CV in midgame.

You want to ally city-states, especially cultured CSes. However, others can also be helpful for various reasons (e.g., militaristic CS gifting new units means you don't need to waste turns building those units and can still have good defense).

More directly, you want to try to found the World Congress and propose the World's Fair. Prior to that, you want the Writer's Guild and want to save all your Great Writers. Win the #1 spot for World's Fair, then burn the GWs for tons of culture to buy several social policies.

I'd suggest ignoring the ancient era wonders, but you can beeline for Hanging Gardens easily on King, at least for most maps. The extra pop = extra science as well as food support for staffing guilds and other specialist buildings. Example: Happy = Golden Age which boosts culture as well as other things (gold, production). Great Artists can also be burned for Golden Age. Of course, doing that means you won't use them for works in buildings, but you can compensate using Archeologists. You have to decide how you want to purse CV.

Remember that each turn spent trying to build a wonder is a turn lost for building other infrastructure (buildings).

You can (and probably should) also plan to have a good military in mid to late game in order to stomp one or two (at least) of the AIs (and steal any wonders they've built) and prevent them from being a cultural leader. You also want to prevent them from taking over your influence, of course.

These are some ideas, but each map and chosen civ varies. I always play Russia, btw, because Catherine is very well-rounded for victory conditions and I like playing her.

CivAddict2013 said:

Well I play on King.

What wonders should I prioritize for the cultural victory?

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Great Library and Oxford University are nice and easy to fill because Writer's Guild is the first guild you'll get. Also, they're on the path to fast science, and culture victories generally want Archaeology and Refridge as fast as possible.

At King level you can probably get every cultural wonder, but you don't need them. You just need a strong capital with the two wonders above, one out of Ufizzi and Louvre, a Museum, a Hotel, and optionally, an Airport and Internet. You'll want all the Guilds too, but Writer's Guild is the only early priority. Hermitage is pretty good too, but I've often found it to be non-essential.
The building you really, really need is the Hotel. Beyond that its just Science and opportunistic and targeted wonder building. Don't bother with any Wonders that don't have Work slots.

Science is King: always bear that in mind.

Tradition opener will get you there faster than Liberty: for culture victory, a mega-capital is great to have. Aesthetics is nice too, and you can get it two eras before Rationalism. Once Rationalism opens you have to decide whether to finish Aesthetics or drop into Rationalism a bit.

As for Broadway, I'd say it comes too late. If you are going to use it (and you'll almost certainly get to, on a King game) you should save Great Musicians and plant them all in the same turn to make sure you get the theming bonus.
Generally though, Great Musicians help a Culture Victory more by doing Concert Tours, and the Hammers spent on Broadway are better spent on boosting your military, which you can use to demolish any AI who has too much culture to easily become influential over.
A better modern wonder, if you want one, is Eiffel Tower. Big ass tourism boost built in and other bonuses as well.

Syailendra said:

great engineer(s)?

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Given the huge amount of Manufactory improvements I always see on A.I. lands, would say A.I. very rarely hurries Wonders.

Wouldn´t be surprised if is actually coded to never do it.

Does anyone know it?

Cheating, probably.

When it comes to wonder building, i like to not put my whole effort into them and instead do it for the failgold because failing wonders is so common. I dont like losing something that i really wanted so i resist the temptation of really wanting a wonder and just go for it in disbelief. I often end up building wonders this way and as a result AI respecting me because i had at least a few wonders built.

caiman0815 said:

you have a bunch of wonders and ragequit if AI snags one? Seriously?

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Especially if he is playing more than one AI. Probably 20 AI civ builds got losing gold for that one ND the AI nabbed.