Iron, Coal, etc... +1 hammer .... where does it go?

Ok, so I tried searching for this and I could tell it was gonna take a while, so I thought I'd ask it here.

So, when you go into your domestic advisor and there are certain resources available for trade like Coal and Iron, it says +1 hammer. Does that mean you get +1 hammer in every city that has access to it through trade routes?

And assuming you have the resource yourself, and have mined it or whatever, does that also give +1 to all cities who have access to it, or just to the tile itself?

CivIV is my first Civ experience, and it's taking me a while to get the nuances of the game.

Thanks!
Nat

All cities get the +1 hammer for each different type of resources like this (as long as they're connected). This is not to be confused with the hammers available from working the tile directly.

If you add up your sources of hammers in a connected city, you should notice it. There's a small icon set in the top right that shows the resources providing hammers in addition to the city tiles/whatever else.

That sounds right. All cities that are connected through trade routes.. Because when you hook up a +1 resource, the happiness cap raises in all cities connected. so I think the hammer works the same way.

welcome to the forum!

thx dudes! i'm so in love with this game already.

Welcome to civfanatics natxavier.

Both posters above who answered your question are wrong. You don't get additional hammers in a city that is connected through traderoutes to iron. The indication of the hammer in the city screen is a bit misleading.

Being connected to resources can give you all kinds of bonuses. You get happiness bonuses for being connected to luxury resources, you get health bonuses for being connected to food resources and you get access to certain units for being connected to strategic resources (iron for swordsmen).

There are a few resources that can give a percentile production bonus to certain constructions, most notable among these resources are stone and marble. These two resources give a significant percentile production bonus to the construction of certain wonders, they speed up the production speed of these wonders. This bonus is mentioned in the civilopedia entry of the wonders.

Now I'm even more confused. I know that in trading for certain resources, I gain certain privileges [e.g., Iron --> Swordsman] ... but if you're not getting +1 in all cities with access to that resource via , then where is that +1 going? And if nowhere, then why the crikey is it even there??? LOL

Go in and count the hammers on the tiles you're working, and then count how many it reads next to the production bar. If there's an extra +1 then it works how me and TMIT said. If not then this other guy is right. I'm too stubborn to believe just one guy opposing me. If maybe a whole gang of ppl told me otherwise, then yeah.. But right now it's 2 to 1.

Gang member no. 2 says hello.

Gang member no. 3 signing in.

These labels are basically meaningless. Apparently they were supposed to indicate the bonus the resource gives to the tile it is on, not to indicate any bonus from trading. They definitely do not give +1 hammer/food/commerce to all connected cities as you might conclude (a lot of people have complained these labels are misleading). Basically ignore them.

MrCynical said:

Gang member no. 3 signing in.

These labels are basically meaningless. Apparently they were supposed to indicate the bonus the resource gives to the tile it is on, not to indicate any bonus from trading. They definitely do not give +1 hammer/food/commerce to all connected cities as you might conclude (a lot of people have complained these labels are misleading). Basically ignore them.

Click to expand...

Completely wrong.

A mined plains hill gives 4 hammers, right? Then why does a mined plains hill with iron give 8(?) hammers, if it just adds one?

I've counted my hammers before, and there's anywhere from one to six extra (1-9 with a forge) hammers that I believe must come from Iron, copper, horses, coal, oil or aluminum. Same goes for excess food, although I don't really understand the math that a granary adds. And I know for certain that luxury resources give happiness.

Besides, why would the AI want to trade food resources if they gave no bonuses?

(Also, what's this mysterious "commerce resource" you're talking about?)

The +resource indicator is the bonus that you get for working that resource on an UNIMPROVED tile. This bonus is why a city founded on a plains/hill/stone receives 3 instead of 2. Cities gets 2 1 1 OR (for each particular category) the unimproved bonuses of the tile.

Additional bonuses due to mines/farms/irrigation further increase the total yield (which is why an plains/hill/iron/mine gives you like 6).

The example I remember best:
Post-biology irrigated grassland corn (7)
2 - grassland
1 - unimproved corn bonus (this is what is being described by the corn description - i.e., it is a property of corn unrelated to any other considerations.)
2 - corn resource farm
1 - irrigated farm (if you build a farm on a resource without irrigation you do not get this)
1 - biology farm

I think the game info is unclear in regards to farms. The farm itself does not provide food directly. It must provide food via irrigation, biology and/or resources. A grassland farm disconnected from its irrigation chain will not yield any bonus food (not counting the biology bonus - if applicable). A farm on a resource will not get the irrigation bonus unless it is part of an irrigation chain or is next to fresh water.

Thus, you can cottage a grassland corn and still have a 3 tile.

There is no way to receive other than directly into a specific city (either via tiles. trade routes, corporations). Since a resource being traded for cannot be worked by a city there is no way to harvest this bonus. Likewise, the bonus stays with the tile. In the plains/hill/stone example, your city will have 3 whether you trade the stone away or keep it.

Remember, cities only get unimproved tile yields so researching masonry will not change the tile yield. However, without masonry you will not get the benefits of stone OTHER THAN the +1 from the tile itself.

BakingTheArt said:

A mined plains hill gives 4 hammers, right? Then why does a mined plains hill with iron give 8(?) hammers, if it just adds one?

Click to expand...

An unmined plains iron hill gives 3 hammers. With a mine you would expect 5 but you get more because a MINE yields more hammers when built on iron.

I've counted my hammers before, and there's anywhere from one to six extra (1-9 with a forge) hammers that I believe must come from Iron, copper, horses, coal, oil or aluminum.

Click to expand...

More likely they are the overflow from a previous build since your beliefs are wrong. Mouse over the hammer icon in the city screen to determine exactly where the hammers are coming from.

Same goes for excess food, although I don't really understand the math that a granary adds. And I know for certain that luxury resources give happiness.

Click to expand...

A granary, once filled (which requires you to acquire half of your current total food bar in surplus) will simply cause the food bar to only empty half-way during each subsequent population growth. A partially filled granary will reset to its current food level.

Besides, why would the AI want to trade food resources if they gave no bonuses?

Click to expand...

For the health bonus most "food resources" give.

(Also, what's this mysterious "commerce resource" you're talking about?)

Click to expand...

A commerce resource is a one whose unimproved bonus is as opposed to or .

The yield type of a resource (food, commerce, hammer) does not directly correlate to the bonus that the resource gives (happy/health/strategic). Additionally, some resources will give improved bonuses different from (or at least in addition to) their unimproved bonuses. For example, unimproved sugar gives 1 but a plantation sugar gives an additional 1 AND 1

EweezE said:

Go in and count the hammers on the tiles you're working, and then count how many it reads next to the production bar. If there's an extra +1 then it works how me and TMIT said. If not then this other guy is right. I'm too stubborn to believe just one guy opposing me. If maybe a whole gang of ppl told me otherwise, then yeah.. But right now it's 2 to 1.

Click to expand...

If one knows they are right then 100 people disagreeing with him does not make him wrong. Likewise, agreement by others does not make one right.

If you don't know you are right then why should it matter whether it is one person or a bunch that oppose you. Either way you are guessing and so cannot assert correctness in the face of opposition. You would either need to disprove the opposition or prove your own assertions (or just wait for someone who can give a detailed explanation to chip in and then either poke holes or agree).

Note: the above only works well for things that have a well-defined "rightness".

TheMeInTeam said:

All cities get the +1 hammer for each different type of resources like this (as long as they're connected). This is not to be confused with the hammers available from working the tile directly.

If you add up your sources of hammers in a connected city, you should notice it. There's a small icon set in the top right that shows the resources providing hammers in addition to the city tiles/whatever else.

Click to expand...

Please provide a screenshot showing a resource area of the main city screen with hammer icons. The only ones I've ever come across are health and happy (not counting the icons for the resources themselves). The strategic resources (left column) have no icon next to them and the other have an icon for the basic resource bonus as well as an additional icon if you have the building that gives the additional happy/health bonus for that resource.

The fact that don't show up should be the first indication that in fact those are not available to all cities but only to the city actively working the resource tile.

Polobo said:

If one knows they are right then 100 people disagreeing with him does not make him wrong. Likewise, agreement by others does not make one right.

If you don't know you are right then why should it matter whether it is one person or a bunch that oppose you. Either way you are guessing and so cannot assert correctness in the face of opposition. You would either need to disprove the opposition or prove your own assertions (or just wait for someone who can give a detailed explanation to chip in and then either poke holes or agree).

Note: the above only works well for things that have a well-defined "rightness".

Click to expand...

That is what I'm doing -waiting for someone who can give a detailed explanation. I think it works one way. I am not alone. I did not say you were wrong. The "Gang" of opposition is still forming and pleading their case. This is an insignificant yet interesting game mechanic at the moment.

Agreement by others does prove you were right or wrong in times of assertion. Something will be proven. The proof will be in this thread. The key though is that one of those others needs to have the detailed explanation to the question. Is Sid Meier a member here?

Agreements don't prove anything. Proofs come in terms of
a) screenshots with evidence
b) mathematics

and that's exactly because a and b are both not opinable, and therefore don't need any agreement.

Polobo said:

Cities gets 2 1 1 OR (for each particular category) the unimproved bonuses of the tile.

Click to expand...

It is better said that cities get 2-1-1 unless the basic terrain yeld where it's built already has one (or more, but it isn't possible) higher value.

onedreamer said:

Agreements don't prove anything. Proofs come in terms of
a) screenshots with evidence
b) mathematics

and that's exactly because a and b are both not opinable, and therefore don't need any agreement.

Click to expand...

Agreements do prove things. If on a civ matter you believed something one way, but Sid Meier himself said it otherwise, would you ask him to present "evidence" before believing it is so? I would think not. You would believe it is the way he says it is, then perhaps ask out of curiosity of game mechanics, why? Experts do not owe you their expertise on a matter, teachers do.

Another example. Lawyers can bicker back and forth in the court of law. Nothing is actually proven however, until the jury ("Gang" of opposition) comes to an agreement. Their agreement proves the defendant's guilt or innocence.

Very fine posts there, Polobo.

EweezE said:

Another example. Lawyers can bicker back and forth in the court of law. Nothing is actually proven however, until the jury ("Gang" of opposition) comes to an agreement. Their agreement proves the defendant's guilt or innocence.

Click to expand...

lol @ how a hammer discussion got hijacked and is now a right-or-wrong discussion. let me jump into that as well.

your example is wrong: a jury decision does not prove someone guilty or not. evidence does (to a certain extend). a jury decision is just that: a decision by a number of appointed people to punish a person for a crime they think he did, because they believe the evidence. So agreement does not prove things. It is the underlying facts that prove things. as onedreamer said: mathematics and screenshots are not subject to opinion. agreement/disagreement is.

now get back to hammers you guys, because I have actually no clue what you are talking about when you mentione those +1

BakingTheArt said:

Completely wrong.

A mined plains hill gives 4 hammers, right? Then why does a mined plains hill with iron give 8(?) hammers, if it just adds one?

Click to expand...

The labels are claimed to refer to the unimproved tiles (where iron does only add one hammer, corn one food, incense one commerce, and so on). Note that I consider this a lousy justification for the labels, but its the only one we've been presented with - I'm just passing it on, not coming up with it.

I've counted my hammers before, and there's anywhere from one to six extra (1-9 with a forge) hammers that I believe must come from Iron, copper, horses, coal, oil or aluminum. Same goes for excess food, although I don't really understand the math that a granary adds.

Click to expand...

Then I'm sorry, but you're adding it up wrong. You don't get free hammers like this - ditto for food and commerce. A quick screenshot from a recent game:



The city has access to all "hammer" resources except stone. This city has a full set of coal plant, factory and forge, and is generating 82 hammers per turn. This corresponds to a base hammer output of 41. If you look at the screenshot you'll see that the city is getting:

20 from the tiles, including the city tile.
4 from engineers
4 from the coal plant (random event)
13 from Mining Inc

That's all 41 accounted for. There's no hammers directly from resources.

And I know for certain that luxury resources give happiness.

Click to expand...

Who claimed they didn't?

Besides, why would the AI want to trade food resources if they gave no bonuses?

Click to expand...

For the health or happiness "food resources" give. No resource gives food/hammers/commerce directly through trading. They all however give health, happiness or strategic bonuses.

(Also, what's this mysterious "commerce resource" you're talking about?)

Click to expand...

I never said a word about a "commerce resource". I was referring to the fact that the misleading labels sometimes indicate food or commerce instead of hammers. Again, these corresponded to the bonus given to the tile they are on in an unimproved state.

Polobo said:

If one knows they are right then 100 people disagreeing with him does not make him wrong. Likewise, agreement by others does not make one right.

If you don't know you are right then why should it matter whether it is one person or a bunch that oppose you. Either way you are guessing and so cannot assert correctness in the face of opposition. You would either need to disprove the opposition or prove your own assertions (or just wait for someone who can give a detailed explanation to chip in and then either poke holes or agree).

Click to expand...

True, but he did ask for some opposition so I thought I'd chip in . I had a bit more time for this post so I've included a screenshot for proof.

EweezE said:

Agreements do prove things. If on a civ matter you believed something one way, but Sid Meier himself said it otherwise, would you ask him to present "evidence" before believing it is so? I would think not. You would believe it is the way he says it is, then perhaps ask out of curiosity of game mechanics, why? Experts do not owe you their expertise on a matter, teachers do.

Click to expand...

If what Sid was saying was in direct contradiction to observed game mechanics which I could supply evidence for, then yes. Even experts make mistakes, that's why evidence is useful.

Another example. Lawyers can bicker back and forth in the court of law. Nothing is actually proven however, until the jury ("Gang" of opposition) comes to an agreement. Their agreement proves the defendant's guilt or innocence.

Click to expand...

Ugh - don't get me started on this one. Nothing is "proven" in any scientific sense by a jury's decision - this is at best an informed conclusion which a high proportion of people will come to. All the proving is supposed to be done by the evidence, and a jury is not infallible.