Moving from King to Emperor

I asked these questions on the Emperor Challenge Lineup #3 Shoshoni, but i think that i need more general tips to improve my game.
Here's the quote:

Erfe555 said:

Hi everyone,

this is the first time i've played at Emperor difficulty coming from King.
I'm expecting some troubles, i'm at turn 289 and i'm trying to achieve a cultural victory.
I have some questions and hopefully you can help me.

1)I went for three cities tradition. Is it a good plan for a CV? Or maybe it's better to use a four cities tradition strategy?
2)As you can see i have a pretty low science, how can i correct the situation?
3)Same for the population: it's pretty low (for the turn i'm in). But i don't know how to grow my cities faster.
4)I haven't explored the map in the beginning as you can see, if think it's a pretty bad mistake for a CV... isn't it? In that case, how many scout should i build?
5)I noticed that the AI rush wonders at this level... how can i prevent that? I think that wonder spamming is pretty important to achieve a CV right?
6)How can i generate GP faster? (I don't know how to speed up the spawn ratio. I already built the gardens, Leaning Tower of Pisa, plus i have the enhanced spawn ratio from the World congress)
7)And finally... How can i generate more tourism? I think i have a low tourism because of my low science is it true?

I saw abz winning this challenge with a CV at turn 256 if i remeber well, i'm trying to get better and hopefully with your answers i will.
Thanks in advance for your help.

P.S. Here's a screenshot to help you see the situation.

Spoiler :

Click to expand...

1)I went for three cities tradition. Is it a good plan for a CV? Or maybe it's better to use a four cities tradition strategy?

Click to expand...

It's generally better to have 4 cities but 3 works fine as well

2)As you can see i have a pretty low science, how can i correct the situation?

Click to expand...

Your cities should be making more science definitely. Have you built and staffed science buildings in all cities. Did you get Rationalism + Secularism?

3)Same for the population: it's pretty low (for the turn i'm in). But i don't know how to grow my cities faster.

Click to expand...

Can't really see how you settled well but you kind of need to focus growth by micromanaging tiles to optimize growth and build time, switch production tiles to food tiles when a building is near completion and/or doesn't take long to build anyway. Also, send trade routes from cities with a Granary to your other cities. With 3 of them, it should be easier for of them to feed each other. Rule of thumb, always feed your capital first and the most. Once you have more than enough food that a trade route will improve growth time from like 4 to 3 turns or something, you'd know you should reroute the routes. Building Temple of Artemis and/or Hanging Gardens is definitely a good idea.

4)I haven't explored the map in the beginning as you can see, if think it's a pretty bad mistake for a CV... isn't it? In that case, how many scout should i build?

Click to expand...

It's a mistake however you look at it. Depending on the map type, 2 scouts are I'd assume the bare minimum. A Pangaea map might require a third one.

5)I noticed that the AI rush wonders at this level... how can i prevent that? I think that wonder spamming is pretty important to achieve a CV right?

Click to expand...

Not really, for a Culture win you'd be satisfied with Globe Theater, Sistine, Pisa, Oxford, Hermitage (national wonders, you get it anyway), Eiffel, Louvre and whatever else you can get. You don't need ALL of them, but it certainly helps. Oh and, also Museums. Archeologists are crazy useful, but remember if it's in range, Landmark, if a city can't reach it, Artifact.

6)How can i generate GP faster? (I don't know how to speed up the spawn ratio. I already built the gardens, Leaning Tower of Pisa, plus i have the enhanced spawn ratio from the World congress)

Click to expand...

Aesthetics opener adds a modifier to musicians, artists and writers. As does National Epic and probably something else I can't really remember. Remember to staff specialists as son as possible

7)And finally... How can i generate more tourism? I think i have a low tourism because of my low science is it true?

Click to expand...

Tourism shoots up once you have Hotels, Airports, National Visitor Center and Internet. It's perfectly alright to be around 100 before all of that kick in. Ideology tenets help with that, I believe Freedom is the most consistent option but Order should work as well. And while it's not directly related to low science, you definitely need to reach Hotels early and Internet is just crazy. If you can win International Games, that's also a plus, and if you're playing as Brazil, well, good luck everyone else keeping with the pressure

CV is an extremely non-optimal victory condition. Basically, if you can achieve a CV you are probably playing much below your skill level. If this is your first Emperor attempt I would not go for a CV. CV is like show boating status.

CraigMak said:

CV is an extremely non-optimal victory condition. Basically, if you can achieve a CV you are probably playing much below your skill level. If this is your first Emperor attempt I would not go for a CV. CV is like show boating status.

Click to expand...

I mis-read this comment and have retracted my previous statement!

Using two of six trade routes, zero faith fpt, focusing on gold in two cities. I'm guessing few science buildings and not working scientist slots. 287 science on turn 289 standard pace is no good at all. You need a lot more science to get the late game buildings that really boost tourism. Build guilds early to get them writers/artists out as well.

You are playing on emperor, where anything goes, but I'll give you advice that you can use for immortal (and deity too).

1)I went for three cities tradition. Is it a good plan for a CV? Or maybe it's better to use a four cities tradition strategy?

On Emperor it can be done OCC... 2,3,4... whatever... it's emperor. On deity, I'd recommend 3. 4, only if you have huge gold or happiness income, or you have certain interface enhancements that allow you to see where the AI has an extra lux every turn without having to click to check. You will need the gold you spend on buying luxes in a normal science game for buying infrastructure and CSs instead to get those wonders out.


2)As you can see i have a pretty low science, how can i correct the situation?

Grow more. Your cities are severely undersized for that turn number. Make sure to get WLTKD, feed your capitol food caravans, and work every riverside farm available midgame. If you need to produce wonders, try to use hammer caravans to help out while still maintaining a decent growth rate. For that, ironworks is key, so buy workshops in your satellites if you must.


3)Same for the population: it's pretty low (for the turn i'm in). But i don't know how to grow my cities faster.

Food focus? Try to avoid settling non-coastal cities if they are going to have low food. Cities can be more of a hindrance than a help in some situations. Also be more selective in where you plant your capitol as CV is VERY dependent on capitol dirt. Avoid low-food terrain or jungle if you can. Get long river for hydro plant.

4)I haven't explored the map in the beginning as you can see, if think it's a pretty bad mistake for a CV... isn't it? In that case, how many scout should i build?

On continents, 1 is enough. Pangaea 3-4, but don't over explore and send them home to block enemy settlers/protect workers once it becomes clear you won't get that many ruins (and you don't have to meet faraway CSs that early since you won't win their quests for culture or faith on deity anyway, and clearing their barb camps puts you at risk of being invaded from nearby, whether by barbs or other civs)

5)I noticed that the AI rush wonders at this level... how can i prevent that? I think that wonder spamming is pretty important to achieve a CV right?

Yes and no, wonderspamming is important, but keep in mind there are a lot more wonders to be had mid-to-late game. On emperor though you can grab ancient wonders if you wish, but on higher levels it's best to aim only for certain wonders the AIs don't like too much. The priority early to mid game is to get good growth and science, and get 3 fast-growing cities up. Give them workshops, get ironworks in cap, then get your first renaissance wonder. After industrial you should be able to get every wonder you want (it's a shame most of the theming wonders are in the first half of the game, which makes CV a little difficult than it has to be on deity)
On emperor, though, spam away! As long as your capitol is double the size of the AIs (really easy to do with ToA + HG), you can build any wonder your little wonderwhoring heart desires if you know how and the AI won't stand a chance to stop you at all.

6)How can i generate GP faster? (I don't know how to speed up the spawn ratio. I already built the gardens, Leaning Tower of Pisa, plus i have the enhanced spawn ratio from the World congress)

There are but a few modifiers, national epic, garden (or hanging gardens if you don't have freshwater), pisa, WC, and aesthetics opener, as well as freedom or order tenet. Brazil and Sweden also have GP bonuses. Make sure you work both the guild slots and that's the best you can do.

7)And finally... How can i generate more tourism? I think i have a low tourism because of my low science is it true?

Probably... you need hotels and NVC and internet, as well as airports and landmarks, so needless to say you need the appropriate techs. For WC proposals two of them (3 actually but natural wonders are a rarity) are important: culture heritage sites (get this passed at your earliest convenience without pissing the AIs), and historical landmarks (which will give +2 culture to any GP tile improvement, so plant all your GS if you want 4-digit tourism!)
World religion is OK, but be prepared to buy votes/piss off some AIs for it and generally I don't do it on deity.

z284pwr said:

Using two of six trade routes, zero faith fpt, focusing on gold in two cities. I'm guessing few science buildings and not working scientist slots. 287 science on turn 289 standard pace is no good at all. You need a lot more science to get the late game buildings that really boost tourism. Build guilds early to get them writers/artists out as well.

Click to expand...

We agree. I suggest starting this game over. Read over some cultural victory guides and also reread every post in that Emperor challenge thread for this game.

It is Continents and Shoshone so I just made 1 new pathfinder. I see no reason to not go after a religion here.

You need more science and more trade routes long before it is almost T300.

You need a coastal city to go meet the civs on the other continent.

Why build wealth? Surely those cities would be MUCH better off building something..ie trade units.

Fluphen Azine said:

LOL that is a bit harsh huh... CV is like a show boating status huh?

Click to expand...

You don't think that both Diplomatic and Science are generally much easier to win compared to CV?

OP, I feel like having a game on Emperor, so if you would like to share your Turn 0 save, I could play it to T150 or so and give it back to you, to show you what kind of thing you should be doing. It will be better than you have been playing, but my no means perfect. You'd need KB27787 or Acken for that.

Also, you could watch Acken's Byzantium VidLP. It's on Deity, but a lot of what he does applies to Emperor.

LordBalkoth said:

You don't think that both Diplomatic and Science are generally much easier to win compared to CV?

Click to expand...

I have to admit I misread that statement and I was a bit tricked in the way it is written and now realize that he was saying the opposite of what I was thinking so I was very wrong about my comment and I would like to publicly retract it.

CraigMak said:

CV is an extremely non-optimal victory condition. Basically, if you can achieve a CV you are probably playing much below your skill level. If this is your first Emperor attempt I would not go for a CV. CV is like show boating status.

Click to expand...

When it comes to Emperor we are in great disagreement!! Prior to moving up to Immortal I have vast experience at Emperor and for me, by far CV is the easiest victory. Some of this may be my style, generally peaceful, although I'll fight a war to slow and AI and will steal workers from a CS and/or AI. I plant my GA and GW. I go 4 city Tradition when ever possible if I really want to win. I wonderwhore on Emperor.

I rarely go for Diplo V as it isn't my style and I consider it to be a cash victory. Since I don't have a heavy cash oriented style, I rarely have the cash to easily buy my rocket parts or to ally enough CS quickly.

Deity level attackers can blow away everyone on an 8 player Emperor Pangaea in under 200 turns but I am not nearly that good when it comes to military (but I am practicing) so I'd simply go for a T275 CV or faster.

I honestly find CV to be the easiest for me playing Immortal as well.

consentient said:

OP, I feel like having a game on Emperor, so if you would like to share your Turn 0 save, I could play it to T150 or so and give it back to you, to show you what kind of thing you should be doing. It will be better than you have been playing, but my no means perfect. You'd need KB27787 or Acken for that.

Also, you could watch Acken's Byzantium VidLP. It's on Deity, but a lot of what he does applies to Emperor.

Click to expand...

Here you can find it: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=535763
Let me know how it goes, meanwhile i'll redo the game and try to do better.

Erfe555 said:

Here you can find it: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=535763
Let me know how it goes, meanwhile i'll redo the game and try to do better.

Click to expand...

Yes, ECL#3. Best of luck in your replay. Concentrate and growth and science, and for me, 4 city Tradition means 4 cities. I want those free monuments and aqueducts. I want enough buildings to house my may great works for CV.

Make your 4th city coastal and don't delay astronomy for too long as you want a caravel to go meet the others and show them the goodness of your culture and to trade with them.

consentient said:

OP, I feel like having a game on Emperor, so if you would like to share your Turn 0 save, I could play it to T150 or so and give it back to you, to show you what kind of thing you should be doing. It will be better than you have been playing, but my no means perfect. You'd need KB27787 or Acken for that.

Also, you could watch Acken's Byzantium VidLP. It's on Deity, but a lot of what he does applies to Emperor.

Click to expand...

there's no such thing as perfect or not perfect on emperor (I mean, is building GL not perfect, because you probably can?); it's just how much you want to show off

OK, KB, but what I mean is that my T150 save won't be as good as yours

EDIT: Sorry OP, I'm gonna have to retract my offer. I started a game but it's just too weird for me to play on Emperor anymore. It's too unfamiliar for me to give much advice. I'm really sorry to disappoint you. When I went up North to check out what Genghis was up to and quickly killed his army so he'd leave the CS alone, I felt that I could have gone on to clear the whole continent before T80 or something. I'm sure someone else here will be able to give you some pointers. Personally though, I felt I learned most by taking the big jump to Deity and learning to play that way. For one thing, on any other difficulty level, the AI doesn't have any money early enough in the game for me to sell anything to them, so there is no point improving more than 1 copy of a luxury. Concentrate on growth, growth, growth and you will be in the Modern Era when they are still going through Renaissance.