New Challenges Maps Thread

Nigel_Tufnel2

Nigel_Tufnel2

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Hello all,

Rather than plug up a current challenge with details, let's all just post here with ideas, plans, etc. Perhaps copy/paste recent posts you made in CDG 4 -Spain to continue discussion here? There is already a great thread started by consentient where he polled the community about Deity games, and much discussion ensued. I would prefer not to rehash every item!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=546469

I call dibs on Immortal Indonesia. I have a couple excellent maps I've played a long way in (plus I tested with FireTuner first - saves a lot of time in the long run, as you can see how the civs settle, war, choose policies, etc. More below.).

Concepts I'd like to see followed as much as possible:
- Limit polar ice blockage. Perhaps the NQ maps already take care of this, nothing seems to irritate folks like thinking you have a path to the ocean, but you don't. I personally don't mind some level of blockage, but the worst is a Pangea with no passage N or S!

- Make sure any UU, UA, or UB is possible. What is the point of playing a specific civ without them? (When planning for Indonesia, I made sure there were accessible islands worth settling in the neighborhood, and that there was Iron!)

- Play through ~150 turns, or use FireTuner or IGE to check out the entire map. This way you can give a more accurate description of difficulty, get ideas for achievements, etc.

- Choose Achievements so that some of them fit the civ's theme or whatnot (Wonders for Egypt, 5 religions in capital for Indonesia (Candi), or like CDG 4 with Natural Wonders for Spain...

Some of my personal preferences:
- Leave all VC's enabled, even if the challenge is geared to just one or two VC's. Some of the maps have been very intriguing, but why not let anyone try whatever they want? Perhaps have the Achievements penalize other VC's?

- Have a mix of suggested VC's as the series progress, so they get rotated (I hate having 2-3 DomV in a row myself).

Sample Achievements:
- Settle 4 cities on a certain body of water, or river, or mountain chain.
- DOW every AI at some point, even if it's a SV.

FireTuner:
Spoiler :
It is mainly used to test Lua code, I believe, but you can run simulated games with it. I am not a whiz at it - but have figured out how to use it for what I want (mostly).

1. Download and install the SDK which has FireTuner, Worldbuilder, etc. - it should be available on your Steam account for free.

2. Enable Firetuner by editing config.ini - on my Windows computer it is in the Documents/My Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 5 directory. Open in Notepad, and change the "0" in the 4th line "EnableTuner = 0" to "1".

3. Start Civ V as normal, create a new map or load a save. I always go to Options and turn on Single Player Quick Combat and Movement, as lots of stuff will be happening that you don't need to see map-wide. (On my laptop I run Civ on a lower resolution windowed, so I can get at my desktop and slide things around when I test. My PC has two monitors, which is very handy, I slide FireTuner to the other window.)

4. Start FireTuner by starting the SDK and choosing FireTuner. The window that opens has I think just 2 tabs, but will soon go beserk and populate 13 tabs - this tells you it's activated. If there are only two tabs, and the text field says something like "You're up late, aren't you?" you messed up somehow. You may need to reboot to get everything initialized.

5. Every time you test a new map, load a save, etc., you need to exit FireTuner and restart it (not sure why).

6. The main tabs you will use are Game, Map, and Selected City. Game is where you can advance the game a turn, 5 turns, 150 turns, etc. You highlight the name of the civ you want to control next, then click Autoplay 10, for example. The first turn takes a while, as all the cities and CS need to found cities. You can always change/interrupt the process - I do it by choosing the civ and clicking Autoplay 1 - the turn will finish and you'll be back at the capital of the chosen civ, with fog back on.

When you click an Autoplay button, the entire map will be revealed. I always zoom way out, then watch the minimap to see where civs and CS are settling. Unfortunately, not all resources, etc. show up when the sim is running, at least on my computer.
Spoiler :

Advanced:
7. Your test civ will be at some big disadvantages, because you are probably playing Immortal or Deity, while the AI is on Prince or King. While still on turn 0, I start with Map and add some starting units to give my test civ a more even start with the AI. For Immortal and Deity I add 2 more Warriors, a Scout, and a Worker.

Do this by selecting the Map tab, and clicking the box next to "Unit Plopper Enabled" and scrolling way down the far right window of units. Highlight a unit word, then click on the game map on an open hex and it will appear.
Spoiler :

8. You are going to be hurting for happiness, so you need to add buildings. You can settle then do the following, but I like to Autoplay 1 turn, then add buildings. In Civ open the city, then in Firetuner, click the Selected City tab, and scroll the far right lower window. I add a Colosseum and Stadium (Zoo isn't there for some reason), then a Market and Bank to help pay for them. I figure the hammer savings get swallowed up by the tech disadvantage.
Spoiler :

9. I then Autoplay turns, and take over now and again to check what policies are chosen, etc. Sometimes I just let it run for 150 or 200 turns and walk away. For maps I really like I sometimes do several tests, just to see if the AI is balanced. Your civ will likely underperform, you can always add more stuff...

I watch for things that repeat, watch settling patterns, etc. This gives me added insight into what may be good Achievements and such. Then again, I am easily amused - I enjoy watching mayhem.
 

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Good idea. So you plan to revive the Immortal Challenge? Might be interesting with the Achievements as sometimes it's really hard to play around those in a Deity game.

Anyway, as posted in the CDG4 thread, i'm planning to do a Morocco map for the CDG. It might be any VC or maybe Diplo (as there were no diplo so far) or another, not sure. What i promise is you will have desert.
 
Sounds good! I'm going through the old ICL but it would be nice to play along with people. (Deity is not my cup of tea.)

I don't mind ice-blockage at all though. I actually like this as a part of the game. If it gives you problem only mean poor scouting. I just finished the Brazil ICL and think that all the blockage made the game more interesting.

Map problems like this add to the challenge! :king:
 
As posted in the CDG4 thread, I am volunteering a Byzantium map. I promise faith-pantheon friendly dirt. My first two rolls were not great, but the 3rd seems to be okay. I used the NQ Pangea w/ high sea level (default is normal) and standard resources (default is Strategic with Coal). Those settings seem to work well enough.

Bob Morane said:
Anyway, as posted in the CDG4 thread, i'm planning to do a Morocco map for the CDG.
Click to expand...
Do you have a theme for opponents? If not, I can PM you an idea I had in my head for Morocco.
 
Why are we going back to immortal? I thought the whole point of CDG was for challenge of doing difficult achievements on deity. Immortal is too easy IMO and I think the way the maps are rolled with NQ Pangea does give AI significant advantage that makes it difficult. However side effect would be a bigger map, but I think it can be fixed by adding in 1 additional AI and/or more CS. The fact that nobody has won CDG #4 with all achievement just shows how difficult/time consuming it is. Myself I'm not even halfway done with that map but it's also because of Christmas. Also on all future maps, all VC MUST be enabled or else the AI does weird stuff. The map maker should specify a recommended VC and try to tie achievements to that VC in addition to UA/UB/UU/map etc. The participant doesn't have to follow that VC if they don't feel comfortable with it, just like how doing achievement are optional, but to get scored, I think they HAVE to win the specified VC like how GoTM and HoF does it, and depending on how many achievements are done.
 
If people don't like the NQ map scripts they might try these (OK, you probably already know them, but just in case you don't):

Planet Simulator (can produce continents -- has an annoying tendency to place single mountains right on the coast -- can be tweaked by editing some of the values in the script -- terrain tends to be more like the real world):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=526882

Communitas (also good for continents, thus good for naval civs -- easily tweaked by editing the values in the script -- default settings tend to produce rather stringy land masses -- usually produces continents that are not ice-blocked, IIRC):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=21590

Terra Nova (I've only just seen this, and haven't tried it, but it seems it would also be good for naval civs -- everyone spawns on a single continent, but there are others to explore and settle, with unique luxuries on them):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=560775
 
Sclb said:
Why are we going back to immortal? I thought the whole point of CDG was for challenge of doing difficult achievements on deity. Immortal is too easy IMO and I think the way the maps are rolled with NQ Pangea does give AI significant advantage that makes it difficult. However side effect would be a bigger map, but I think it can be fixed by adding in 1 additional AI and/or more CS. The fact that nobody has won CDG #4 with all achievement just shows how difficult/time consuming it is. Myself I'm not even halfway done with that map but it's also because of Christmas. Also on all future maps, all VC MUST be enabled or else the AI does weird stuff. The map maker should specify a recommended VC and try to tie achievements to that VC in addition to UA/UB/UU/map etc. The participant doesn't have to follow that VC if they don't feel comfortable with it, just like how doing achievement are optional, but to get scored, I think they HAVE to win the specified VC like how GoTM and HoF does it, and depending on how many achievements are done.
Click to expand...


There can be challenges for all difficulties don´t you think? I personally get bored of Deity-games. Yes, Immortal is way easier but It's also more relaxing and let you play more flexible ways.

Edit: I don't see this games only as challenges. I like the community part of playing single player-games together.
 
New Immortal alphabetical series. A game is posted every 7-10 days in alphabetical order. Anyone can post a map but it has to go in order.
 
Sclb said:
I thought the whole point of CDG was for challenge of doing difficult achievements on deity.
Click to expand...
Well, i personally thought the point of those series was to have fun and since the very definition of fun varies from player to player, having Immortal maps would help please more players.
I think the way the maps are rolled with NQ Pangea does give AI significant advantage that makes it difficult. However side effect would be a bigger map, but I think it can be fixed by adding in 1 additional AI and/or more CS
Click to expand...
Would be interesting to see how an Immortal AI behaves on NQ map. As for adding one more civ, that's my plan for that Morocco map.
The map maker should ...
Click to expand...
OK, no offense but the map makers will try to get some maps ready to be played and then we'll see what can be done about achievements and VCs. As Consentient said numerous times when he was the host : if you have great ideas you're more than welcome to post your own maps.
mbbcam said:
If people don't like the NQ map scripts they might try these (OK, you probably already know them, but just in case you don't)
Click to expand...
Yes, i know all of them. They are interesting but none of those are without their own issues. Probably going for a variety of maps is the way to go. I for one am not done with NQ until i have tested other settings (more civs, maybe high sea level) but all of those are valid alternatives.
Vesslan said:
There can be challenges for all difficulties don´t you think? I personally get bored of Deity-games. Yes, Immortal is way easier but It's also more relaxing and let you play more flexible ways.
Click to expand...
This. The achievements can be selected to encourage unusual play that wouldn't work on Deity. Nobody is forced to play both Immortal and Deity, but with both, at least everybody will have something to play until Acken's mod is ready to be part of another Series and we can be crushed by it's Emperor AI :lol:
 
Notes on map packs

OK. Just a reminder to those willing to create maps. Please try to remember to disable map packs from your DLCs. Especially the "scrambled" stuff. I know they have been on sale lately (even got them) but not everyone have them yet and hex-editing maps is annoying and sometimes leads to crashes.

An easy way to disable them (semi)permanently when you plan to create some maps is to uncheck them in the Steam app. This way even if CiV crashes after re-rolling a few maps and you have to restart, they will stay disabled even if you forget to go to the DLC menu.
 
budweiser said:
New Immortal alphabetical series. A game is posted every 7-10 days in alphabetical order. Anyone can post a map but it has to go in order.
Click to expand...

Had som correspondence with Stormtrooper to start a new round off immortal-games a while ago but I think this is a very good idea were everyone that wants to can help and post nice immortal maps for us to play! :goodjob:

I guess you mean alphabetical for the leader-name and not the civ starting with Morocco?

Someone please post a map! I'd like to play a game before hollidays over. :)
 
Bob Morane said:
Well, i personally thought the point of those series was to have fun and since the very definition of fun varies from player to player, having Immortal maps would help please more players.
Click to expand...
I find that amusing that you bring that up. If you check the link to the previous thread, it seems most of the response wanted an INCREASE in difficulty from the previous DCL series which I believe has been done. Dropping it down to immortal would also discourage some players from playing since for example I wouldn't bother with immortal.

This. The achievements can be selected to encourage unusual play that wouldn't work on Deity. Nobody is forced to play both Immortal and Deity, but with both, at least everybody will have something to play until Acken's mod is ready to be part of another Series and we can be crushed by it's Emperor AI :lol:
Click to expand...
Every achievement is doable on deity so far, and I don't see a problem with it tbh. The point of the achievement system is so that it may be VERY difficult to get ALL achievement, but getting some of them is pretty easy on deity. For example, each of my submissions for the first 3 CDG wasn't optimal on turn times due to having achievements done. In one case, it was delayed so much that I could get a time victory if I tried. Acken's mod is extremely difficult on deity, but not that bad on other.
 
Gustavus Rex said:
Had som correspondence with Stormtrooper to start a new round off immortal-games a while ago but I think this is a very good idea were everyone that wants to can help and post nice immortal maps for us to play! :goodjob:

I guess you mean alphabetical for the leader-name and not the civ starting with Morocco?

Someone please post a map! I'd like to play a game before hollidays over. :)
Click to expand...

Right. Morocco first. I'm short on upload space and time today or else I would post one.
 
Sclb said:
I find that amusing that you bring that up. If you check the link to the previous thread, it seems most of the response wanted an INCREASE in difficulty from the previous DCL series which I believe has been done. Dropping it down to immortal would also discourage some players from playing since for example I wouldn't bother with immortal.


Every achievement is doable on deity so far, and I don't see a problem with it tbh. The point of the achievement system is so that it may be VERY difficult to get ALL achievement, but getting some of them is pretty easy on deity. For example, each of my submissions for the first 3 CDG wasn't optimal on turn times due to having achievements done. In one case, it was delayed so much that I could get a time victory if I tried. Acken's mod is extremely difficult on deity, but not that bad on other.
Click to expand...

Well. It's not like you have to play the immortal games if you don't want. To my understanding this does not affect the deity challenges at all. Most of the community prefer deity.

OT@Budwiser. I got a fun Morocco map in stock. Problem for me is I already played it. But sharing is caring i guess... I can post it.
 
Sclb said:
However side effect would be a bigger map, but I think it can be fixed by adding in 1 additional AI and/or more CS.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that addresses the problem of Dom VC feeling like too much of chore for larger maps. Two more CS is just two fewer AI cities. Adding in an AI does not change the total number of AI cities, and means one more city that is required for Dom VC.

The fact that nobody has won CDG #4 with all achievement just shows how difficult/time consuming it is.
Click to expand...
Is it difficult or just time consuming? The raze-every-city-and-30+ seems more like a chore aspect. Not that I could really get close to a Dom VC in any case...

Also on all future maps, all VC MUST be enabled or else the AI does weird stuff.
Click to expand...
I agree with in principle, but I think especially for the more sprawling maps, SV should be disabled if only Dom VC are going to count for scoring.

but to get scored, I think they HAVE to win the specified VC like how GoTM and HoF does it
Click to expand...
Well, since my skill set is more limited, I disagree. People who are okay with constraints still have the GotM and HoF. The DCL seemed more inviting and open ended, even though it has fewer participants. So I think you would want to (1) keep it somewhat distinct from the GotM and HoF, and (2) drum up participation. I don’t see how being strict with the scoring helps with either (1) or (2).

mbbcam said:
If people don't like the NQ map scripts they might try these... Terra Nova (I've only just seen this, and haven't tried it, but it seems it would also be good for naval civs -- everyone spawns on a single continent, but there are others to explore and settle, with unique luxuries on them)
Click to expand...
Okay, you seem to be saying why all those scripts are weak? Terra, in general, is terrible for the AI (and no good for the player either, except Polynesia). Terra might be fun for MP.

But see the Japan DCL where Grendeldef describes his preferred setting for Terra Incognito. That way it looks like an interesting variation on continents.
 
budweiser said:
Cool! If you post it, I will play it.
Click to expand...

Allright! Posted a map to get it all started. I wont post any more this round but I will gladly play! And my ideas for achievements is mere suggestions. I like it simple.

Now, let the immortal games flow!
 
Thanks for starting the new Immortal series, Gustavus! As I said, I will do Gajah (Indonesia) who is 15th in alphabetical order. I can certainly do one or two before then, but will wait to see who wants to jump in first. I think Askia could be fun with raging barbs...
 
So if we have this map thread, then the maps won't be a surprise I guess? I prefer Deity too just because I'm trying to improve as rapidly as possible and losing on Deity teaches me more than losing on Immortal (That and I feel less like a doofus). I like the free-for-all spirit of the IACL, we just pop out a map in leader's alphabetical order, but CDG has already flown the coop with that idea. What shall we do with it?
 
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