SGOTM 20 - Phoenix Rising

AlanH

AlanH

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Welcome to your BtS SGOTM 20 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

You can find the Game Details in the first post of the Maintenance Thread. If any changes occur in the game settings or rules, I shall post them in that thread, and edit that post.

Please wait until your team leader/administrator/scribe has reserved a couple of top posts in this thread for game admin information. Then post here to let your team know you have arrived.

Good luck with the game. :)
 
placeholder for strategy sum-ups :)

ROTA:

My (played 2 sets)
Pack (playing 1 set)
Gumbo (played 1 set)
Izu (played 1 set)
Lymo (playing)
Elite (Pause, comp problem)

Gathering Rifles..still waiting what Tao HC hides.

Tech: Natio?

Diplo:
 
Signing in!
 
I'm in. Is someone going to do the usual spiel, or since we are all returning members, are we assuming everyone knows said spiel?
 
Hey guys!
I'll try to read all team threads and watch out for misunderstood rules at the start. Don't want to have the game decided by unclear wording. Still, if anything is unclear PM me, I'll try to respond as soon as possible!

Something else: I'd like to gather intresting facts during the game for comparisson later. Just like we did after the game for sgotm#19 in the lurker thread. I think it will be a fun read later, and way easier then reading 20k posts of all team threads :)
If one of you or all of you as a team dont want me to include you in that, please let me know. Not sure it it will work at all, depends on how much time I got and how much everyone spams.
 
I'm in! I could update this post with cliffs and links to important discussions to make BSP's life easier, if that's okay for the team.

Lol, completely failed this. Being away from the game the first month made it kind of impossible. Sorry BSP..
 
Here are the probabilities for missionary success when spreading to own cities. X-axis shows religions founded and Y-axis religions present in the city.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
1 - 70 80 85 88 90 91,43
2 - - 60 70 76 80 82,86
3 - - - 55 64 70 74,29
4 - - - - 52 60 65,71
5 - - - - - 50 57,14
6 - - - - - - 48,57

Here are the probabilities for missionary success when spreading to foreign cities:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7
0 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
1 - 60 73,33 80 84 86,67 88,57
2 - - 46,67 60 68 73,33 77,14
3 - - - 40 52 60 65,71
4 - - - - 36 46,67 54,29
5 - - - - - 33,33 42,86
6 - - - - - - 31,43

Based on these numbers we should not see much more than 10 missionary failures over the course of the game if we spread the 70 temples over 20 cities (and spread the 2nd-4th religion only to our own cities after all 7 religions have been founded). That's not quite as bad as I first feared when I read the game description, but still, we will probably need to build a ton of them...
 
I would be fine with skipping the usual rules posts, think we all know those by now ;)
Also okay with you making an updated post for BSP, Elite.

Larger image of our starting position here:
Spoiler :


Some early move thoughts, our warrior cannot scout anything useful i think, most likely we will want him moving north west.
Archer maybe 2S, and scout NE then pause?
 
I think the team rules were never really looked at. I think as long as everyone has a chance to play and thread remains a happy place all should be fine.

I think we should keep a somewhat good level of micro early on and have a decent plan.

Game rules

Spoiler :
Your goals
You have sworn to rebuild your empire and to ensure such madness will never be repeated, by encouraging and not suppressing faith. To do so...

Take control of the Religions! - Only you (or your vassals) may own a Holy City.
Bring them together! - Each of your cities has at least two religions. There are at least seventy temples in your cities.
Promote Equality! - You must adopt and stay in Free Religion upon learning Liberalism.
End the madness! - You will be told how to do that after you capture three Holy Cities or when you have met every other civilization.
Prove that you are a worthy ruler! - You win the game in any way but conquest.


Expect 2-3 religions to be given to barb cities. We should check if certain religions at start have already been allocated. Expect certain Ai to be hidden away. Maybe on different land masses? Or border hopping required? Controlling all holy cities could make things interesting. The 2 religions per city will also be a slight challenge too.

Controlling all the holy cities/ destroying them this game could reveal how much war stuff we need to do. Otherwise Ap win might be easiest. Pending on the hidden task.

So exploring from T1 will be important too.
 
I like archer 2S and scout NE as well. It looks like mountains in the fog to the immediate west, so NW for the scout doesn't make too much sense. I'm interesting in what the lies to the S by the old capital. Maybe a super barb city? Hard to guess on what the map looks like as we have a new map maker.
 
No sign of Izuul or Lymond yet. Do they know thread is open??
 
I don't know. I don't think I've seen them on since the threads were open, so them not knowing would be a reasonable explanation.
 
Yo, whaddup peeps! in da hizzy! I may be a bit absent in the short term due to other obligations but will try to keep up.

Is My our new fearless leader?!!! ;)
 
Me no leader ;) Do we need one?
I only plan an overview post, for those of us who cannot follow the thread always. It's also nice to sum up our discussions and keeping that together, in an easy to find spot.
 
/wave

Agree with Archer 2S and scout 1NE. Also agree that we don't need the warrior and the archer going in the same direction so we want to get that warrior heading northerly. NW into the mountains makes the most sense with the scout going NE.

Any thoughts on the objectives and what VC they may lead us to? Conquest is not allowed and domination can be a bit of a pain although needing to control all 7 holy cities may lend itself to this. With all of the religions and temples, culture could actually be an option. The "end the madness" hidden objective will surely play a large role in this, but it would be nice to have an idea of which direction we may want to go with this game and how far we may have to tech.
 
Domination and Culture both come to mind from the conditions. We are going to need quite a few cities for the temples, so I agree about dom and culture. Vassals are allowed so we could go for a Diplo via warfare, either the AP or UN. The only victory condition that is allowed that I would rule out is space race.

Thoughts about possible map situations:

An AI with high religious flavor, like Izzy, separated from us by the mountains. Maybe a maze like map with Toku blocking the path to some AI's, which would keep us from the holy cities as well as the other AI. Remember the hidden condition is given to us after we take/own 3 holy cities or until we meet all the AI. So at least one AI will be separated from us. So we may need flight or a city with high culture to meet an AI if its separated by a large mountain range.

For expansion, we may need to go through the old capital. All the more reason to send the Archer south. I don't think we will have a lot of land to expand into where we are at.
 
Gumby, there was apparently an update to one of the game rules:

Bring them together! - Each of your cities has at least two religions. There are at least seventy temples in your cities. Each Great Prophet settled in your cities counts as four temples.

It's not in the sign-up thread, but it is in the maintenance thread. In case the map is filled with religious nuts, this might make it easier as they are likely to generate Great Prophets and settle them in their cities before we capture them.

"End the madness" sounds like all remaining civs must be in free religion to me. We should know that soon enough.

With vassals allowed I think some kind of diplo or domination should be the easiest. Culture is also possible. Maybe culture could even be faster, though probably not easier... Espionage to spread culture is allowed, but I have never played a game like that and don't know how well it would work in this case.
 
Culture is usually bad, great Artists reduce our bulbing, great merchant and golden age possibilities, and without them it's still very slow imo no matter how many Cathedrals and stuff we can build. If we assume we play with exp + org, we also get no help from traits.

Izu has calculated spreading culture with spies in i think sgotm 18, was rather easy for 1 city but you need many Espio points and i bet it's not an option doing that with 2 cities ;)
Besides all the temples we would also have to build ~60 spies for that city, and then we still have 2 more legendary left.

AP win will usually be superior if we need no late techs, then Domi and that also depends on techs needed imo cos once we need no beakers anymore we can just whip out everything needed. So when would culture be an option..well i dare saying never, cos if we need high end techs we probably cannot afford wasting time and great peoples, and if we do not either AP or Domi should become too tempting.

Ending the madness could also be building UN or so.
 
I was hoping to not have to go for a diplo victory again, particularly an AP diplo victory, but that does seem the most likely course.

One thing about domination, having vassals doesn't always lend itself to this VC because only 50% of their land counts towards the domination % which results in needing to control a much larger portion of the map. However, it may be possible to do with a mass of late settlers and briefly running the culture slider. Vassals are usually best for conquest (disallowed here) followed by diplo.
 
Well we need to explore the map and decide. Building the AP is very hammer intensive. The quicker we find out the hidden objective the quicker we win the game.

Temples may not be a huge issue if the Ai settle a lot of GP's. A reason to leave them alive maybe? We can also let some religious Ai spread religion for us. Why spread 120 or so missionaries if a religious Ai will do it for you.

Picking wars will be key here. Taking out 3 early shrines quickly could just involve taking barb cities.

Let's also not forget once our city is settled we get the x/y coordinates.

We do need to send out our scouts pretty much from T1 and try to keep them alive.
 
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