Wow I get screwed every time.... Game Play Huh!!!

CBE Player

CBE Player

Warlord
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Messages
161
Location
3rd Rock from the sun.
Hi
I don't usually have time for this but today is the exception.

I have been off civ 5 kick for some time and decided to get another game going.

After playing for about 10 turns or so the closest AI forward settled to my left it was Poland. and I decided to get rid of the "RED Menace" before he got his cool arse horsies.

But what I did not know is that at some time between my last game and now the devs(I hope it was them) must have put up a patch to make the AI tougher.

Anyways.

I then was called every name in the book by all the other civs each time they met me they already "Hated" me and dowed me as one.

Never-the-less I did not even see this one coming. all 7 civs on immortal creamed me in no time.

So I started another game and decided to forward settle myself to prevent having to take the space Poland might(if in the game) take for himself.

This time, I was only called some of the worst names and only half the civs (Standard, Continents, 8 civs, 16 CS, immortal again) came after me again.

Time to restart.

Again I took the lead but they left me alone after complaining about me being a menace.

But when I go to the point of winning. I had literally 1 turn left and the AI who had not even gave me a bad time won using the same type of VC.

So I have a Question.

Is the AI Pumping Iron while I was away? (several months or even a year has passed), and I can't win on this level anymore.

Should I just give up and wait for Civ 6? Will the AI be Beefed up there also?

I feel sorry for any new players who just buy this game recently and never played it before. They are in for Backside Bashing on a level unheard of in the history of time itself.

Kinda brings whole new meaning to the term "Can you keep your arse from hurting while standing the test of time".:blush:

Oh well thanks for Reading, hope I am not alone here in the pain district.

CBE
 
well, most new players probably won't start on immortal difficulty

i don't know about the patches between now and when you last played, but i do have a couple of questions

1. in your first game, did you completely remove poland from the game, or only capture one city?
2. in your second game, how rapidly (and aggressively) were you expanding? did you see any negative diplomatic modifiers next to each AI?
 
Try reading about some of the well-established strategies for gameplay, and practise them.

My favorite's are Moriarte's Liberty Domination and Peddroelm's Honor Domination. You can read about them, and find other tips, on my Domination for Noobs thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=547630
 
I think in the first game he completely removed poland, otherwise you shouldn't get multiple DoW or denouncements. It is a bad idea to remove any civ that early unless you're determined to win by domination starting with archers/CB. Even when going Domination, I prefer to leave some cities alive so that I don't get that chain denouncement and be able to keep some DoF for lump sum gold.
I don't think the difficulty changed much for 1 year, are you sure you played immortal civ 5 before, or should you start with a lower difficulty?

In your second game, it seems like you pissed off half of the civs, which are all on your continent since other continent doesn't know about you and won't ever covet your land unless they settle yours. It is possible you expanded too fast, you shouldn't plant more than 4-5 cities unless you know how to deal with the reckless expander penalty or have the military to back it up.
 
miaasma said:
well, most new players probably won't start on immortal difficulty

i don't know about the patches between now and when you last played, but i do have a couple of questions

1. in your first game, did you completely remove poland from the game, or only capture one city?
2. in your second game, how rapidly (and aggressively) were you expanding? did you see any negative diplomatic modifiers next to each AI?
Click to expand...

Hey sorry bout not getting back had some time off from ...well everything ...

Up front I am not a newbie at all been playing since Civ2! (and yeah I'm that old;))(was playing on Diety winning about 1-in-3 games, but Civ5 is giving me a headache lately only because of some patch (heard it from the folks on Polycast(I think), mostly MD that there was a patch that made the AI tougher, but just don't remember when exactly)

1. No i have never removed any civ completely from the game. Ever as I know it causes everyone else to do the beatdown on me.
2. I settled where there was resources that gave great happiness I believe it was 2 Silver (had none previously) and 1 Gold in same city site. The city was then at 5 tiles away from a VERY forward settled city of Poland's...(Does Poland have some real problems with this action? more so than other civs?)
 
Sclb said:
I think in the first game he completely removed poland, otherwise you shouldn't get multiple DoW or denouncements. It is a bad idea to remove any civ that early unless you're determined to win by domination starting with archers/CB. Even when going Domination, I prefer to leave some cities alive so that I don't get that chain denouncement and be able to keep some DoF for lump sum gold.
I don't think the difficulty changed much for 1 year, are you sure you played immortal civ 5 before, or should you start with a lower difficulty?

In your second game, it seems like you pissed off half of the civs, which are all on your continent since other continent doesn't know about you and won't ever covet your land unless they settle yours. It is possible you expanded too fast, you shouldn't plant more than 4-5 cities unless you know how to deal with the reckless expander penalty or have the military to back it up.
Click to expand...

Well as stated above in response to Miassma, I have never forward settled due to pissing off the AI. Here-in lies the problem. I get Dowed no matter how forward I settle, or how who it is done to. or How much wardome I do with one AI. The AI just seem EXtremely Eager to "Hate" on me unless I stay stagnant and don't attempt to win! How Bizarre.

I Thought that being dowed meant you had something EXtremely rotten to an AI. But I used to do this when I last played and NEVER had a problem with being Dowed.

This is why I am asking here because it seems very confusing to have not changed my play style from over a year ago to now and things definitely changed between the AI and myself. Does anyone know about when the last few patches on Steam happened or how I could check this out(Sure there is a list somewhere I am missing)

I used to just build up several Bowman(Nebuchadnezzar), and a couple Spearmen) the keep them between myself and the nearest AI that "might" get mad at my conditions of forward settling. NEVER had this AI "pissing off" action until now though.

That is why I figure it out as a patch that made the AI better fighters but also made them hate on you in bulk if you so much as blink in the wrong direction.:confused:

I will take a look at the above link for info on playing but things that worked for me over a year ago should still work, I think..

Oh and I watched some vids from people online before that gave pretty good info but maybe they were only on old style AI or something. (sorry I don't remember who the vids were from exactly)

Thanks for the responses!:goodjob:

CBE
 
Oh and also, I played on Deity winning 1-in-3 but when I started back up I got the impression I should start off a level lower to get back into it. That's why I am on Immortal now. or and since my last posting this I have tried the same tactics on level 5 and 6 too and get the same "Hate" factor.

I have not even tried to finish a game since this happened on Immortal. does not seem worth trying to since I can't even get to that win point without just being in a constant war (every game)

If that was the dev's intent on making the AI "Better" at fighting then they were VERY successful! (though if I wanted a fight club game I would just have bought one of the iterations of Total War).;)

Maybe Civ 6 will be better AI without all the mess.

Thanks for all the hep as it is though.
CBE
 
CBE Player said:
Hey sorry bout not getting back had some time off from ...well everything ...

Up front I am not a newbie at all been playing since Civ2! (and yeah I'm that old;))(was playing on Diety winning about 1-in-3 games, but Civ5 is giving me a headache lately only because of some patch (heard it from the folks on Polycast(I think), mostly MD that there was a patch that made the AI tougher, but just don't remember when exactly)

1. No i have never removed any civ completely from the game. Ever as I know it causes everyone else to do the beatdown on me.
2. I settled where there was resources that gave great happiness I believe it was 2 Silver (had none previously) and 1 Gold in same city site. The city was then at 5 tiles away from a VERY forward settled city of Poland's...(Does Poland have some real problems with this action? more so than other civs?)
Click to expand...
haha, well i started at civ 3 but i never became good at it. civ 5 is the first game of the series i've actually tried to become somewhere proficient at

1. that's odd then. warmongering diplomatic penalties certainly exist, but i've never declared war on anyone and immediately had a bunch of people attack me, even if the AI in question was friends with a bunch of others and i ended up taking a city, but yeah, removing a civ from the game effectively makes you a villain for all AI

2. poland seems to have high expansion flavour, but if it was a forward settle, i'm not sure how much it would trigger a land coveting diplomatic modifier; at least not one severe enough to trigger war

the best way to solve this would probably be to provide a save if possible
 
miaasma said:
haha, well i started at civ 3 but i never became good at it. civ 5 is the first game of the series i've actually tried to become somewhere proficient at

1. that's odd then. warmongering diplomatic penalties certainly exist, but i've never declared war on anyone and immediately had a bunch of people attack me, even if the AI in question was friends with a bunch of others and i ended up taking a city, but yeah, removing a civ from the game effectively makes you a villain for all AI

2. poland seems to have high expansion flavour, but if it was a forward settle, i'm not sure how much it would trigger a land coveting diplomatic modifier; at least not one severe enough to trigger war

the best way to solve this would probably be to provide a save if possible
Click to expand...

Well I don't even remember my experiences with civ 2-3 and barely remember some of 4, so I guess I have the same thoughts as you with 5 being the one to really sink my teeth into.

That being said, I do not keep any saves up to this date but the next time I play (today maybe) I'll try to keep the save and when I get back online at the library I'll upload it here (have to figure out the uploads again, been quite a while.) What will you like save wise to look at just before the take over or other saves?

I also run these mods (none change the play of the AI though you might need them to run the saves up...

Gibraltar, Reef, and Krakatoa Fixes
Calypso's Colored Religious Icons (Basic)
Calypso's Colored Religious Icons (Extended)
UI - TopPanel Changes (BNW) ***REMOVED***
Longer City/Unit/Religion Names
Global Relations
Expanded Civilopedia Entries (Brave New World)
Global - Archaeologist Dig Sites (v 2)
Maps - Rotate Start Position (v 10)
UI - Summary Luxuries (v 13)
UI - Summary Specialists (v 11)
UI - Trade Opportunities (v 28)

and

Enhanced User Interface
for Civilization V (BNW / G&K / vanilla)
 
Hi,

As a final note to this thread I found the problem in my play style and have found a solution also.

I won't be needing any help for this game now as I think it has outlived it's usefulness(at least for me). When Civ 6 comes out in Oct I hope it runs better in all aspects compared to Civ 5.

Should be interesting at the very least.;)

Thanks!
CBE
 
The AI is terrible in this game, they have no idea what they are doing. Raising the difficulty level doesn't make them any better, it just gives them all kinds of advantages. On Civ 4 I mostly played Prince difficulty, on Civ 5 I play Immortal and would maybe go higher but I don't enjoy this game on Deity.

I like to role play my Civs and build wonders and other things that aren't conducive to winning as quickly or easily as possible. I go on YouTube and see players much worse than me stomping all over the AI on Immortal and Emperor difficulty. You don't even have to be good to win on any level except Deity.

The AI is simply bad at this game.
 
mitsuko said:
The AI is terrible in this game, they have no idea what they are doing. Raising the difficulty level doesn't make them any better, it just gives them all kinds of advantages.
Click to expand...
These statements are true for II, III, IV, and SMAC -- as well as for V.

On Civ 4 I mostly played Prince difficulty, on Civ 5 I play Immortal and would maybe go higher but I don't enjoy this game on Deity.
Click to expand...
With II, SMAC, and V -- the difficulty levels form a pretty smooth curve. So the average player can work from “Prince” up to “Deity” just by tuning their game. (Quote marks because the name for the difficulty levels have varied.)

With III and IV each difficulty level was a very significant jump. I would guess that with Prince on IV for you, that you almost never lose -- but at King you almost never win. At least, that was how it was for me.

I like to role play my Civs and build wonders and other things that aren't conducive to winning as quickly or easily as possible.
Click to expand...
Me too, and I get away with that at Deity on V. Immortal would permit me more RP, but I do not enjoy the game so much if there is not a fair possibility that I will loose.
 
Mahasona said:
Wait a minute - come back!

What was the problem and solution you found?
Click to expand...

Ha, Ha, I wondered if anyone was paying attention... (Big Grin)

My problem was that no matter what level of play I could not get a win with my favorite civ since the AI seemed to have been programed into a WAR only civ.

I take a early city and get dowed by everyone who I have met.
I don't take any cities but just play nice and I get dowed for not being tough enough.
I try for S.V. and they outmatch by working together, so I have to beat down on the leader to keep it from winning S.V.
I go for diplo they go to war on me dowing again since I don't have the ability to keep a military.

See the pattern, It's all about war. That's what the latest patches have done for this game is turned it into a fight club game, nothing more.

As I indicated early on here, If I want to play a WAR game I'll get Total war ... fill in the blank.

I found the solution was to stop playing this game since I don't like the war on all the time in civ.

I will not buy C6 until I have seen that the devs have a smarter game engine that does not have to gang war on all top 4 levels for every V.C. to win.

When the dev's are smart enough to write that kind of code I"ll buy a game from them again. As for now I just play something else that does not have war on all the time.

So much for the "Just one more turn" huh...?:)

CBE
 
Emphasis added:
CBE Player said:
My problem was that no matter what level of play I could not get a win
Click to expand...
That cannot be quite right. The AI is pretty passive at Prince and below.

One of the aspects of the game that I think is well designed is that (1) you can kind find the difficulty level that is too easy for you, and then (2) play the next level up and be competitive. Then the next (and optional) step (3) is to tune your game until that difficulty level becomes too easy.
 
CBE Player said:
I take a early city and get dowed by everyone who I have met.
I don't take any cities but just play nice and I get dowed for not being tough enough.
I try for S.V. and they outmatch by working together, so I have to beat down on the leader to keep it from winning S.V.
I go for diplo they go to war on me dowing again since I don't have the ability to keep a military.
Click to expand...

I regularly play on Immortal, and typically go for a turtling SV with random starts and random leaders and on immortal very rarely get into any wars if I don't want to (Diety is a different story however). Some key hints that work for me, as a non-expert, at avoiding wars:

1) You must *be* "tough enough". Keep your army out of last place (on the progress screen) after T90 or so. You don't actually need to fight anyone (although I typically steal workers when I can in first 50 turns) but just stay out of the bottom of the pack to avoid being an obvious target. Even with a tall 4-city Trad empire you can pump units from one expo (usually city 2 for me) after finishing library for NC.

2) As much as everyone complains about diplomacy, you still need to play the diplomacy game. You want to be friends with the neighbors (if possible...).
-- Trade routes help (if they are sending routes to you, seems less likely to DOW even the ones that backstab DOFs..).
-- I've never seen anyone backstab if an RA is in place, so that's another way to keep someone happy with you for a time.
-- Keep aware of the network of DOFs and denouncements (often there is a pariah civ that you don't want to be friends with at immortal+ although I wouldn't worry at lower levels). Consider your neighbors web of friends your web of friends :)
-- Don't spy at all on the neighbors; choose someone not next door. If you get caught, move on.
-- Be obsequious in your replies ("sorry I'll never forward expand in your face again").
-- You can even give little gifts (trade 1 horse for nothing) to get a "we've traded recently" modifier later in the game when you don't care much (pay attention to the green/red modifiers...)
-- Be prepared for the swings in dipole networks when Ideologies are chosen.

3) You want neighbors to hate others more. Bribe them to attack the next civ (or, visa versa). The warlike civs will hardly require anything to go to war :) If you aren't going to take them out, you want them wasting time fighting someone else!!

4) Keep control of nearby CS if possible (so they don't DOW you if all the above fails).

5) At high levels, you need the whole game skill package (i.e. good economy/ science/ culture game): you can't bribe civs if you don't have extra gold and luxes to spread; you need to support a reasonable defensive force; buy RAs; either upgrade or build new units; etc.
 
CBE Player said:
Ha, Ha, I wondered if anyone was paying attention... (Big Grin)

My problem was that no matter what level of play I could not get a win with my favorite civ since the AI seemed to have been programed into a WAR only civ.

I take a early city and get dowed by everyone who I have met.
I don't take any cities but just play nice and I get dowed for not being tough enough.
I try for S.V. and they outmatch by working together, so I have to beat down on the leader to keep it from winning S.V.
I go for diplo they go to war on me dowing again since I don't have the ability to keep a military.

See the pattern, It's all about war. That's what the latest patches have done for this game is turned it into a fight club game, nothing more.
Click to expand...

Aside from the fact that the game hasn't been patched in a long time, this is incorrect on many levels.

Your problem is what you're doing, and not understanding game mechanics. If you're taking early cities, make it capitals, and do it before you have scouted much of the world. There's no benefit to taking out another civilization early if you have met all of the rest of the players, that's just setting yourself up for failure. The only reason to take early cities is if that's your game plan - you don't care if the rest of the world is at war with you, because you intend to be at war with them. You can't just be an aggressor early and expect everyone else to not react to your threat, can you?

Second point - you have to build a military. It doesn't mean you need to go stomping around, but you cannot be the weakest at any point in the game. If you're sitting on 2 scouts and a warrior at T100, of course you're going to be at war - you have basically said "Come take my land, I am no challenge." Build a few archers (you don't need many), upgrade them as you go, and you will find that the world won't just DoW you out of the blue.

Third, Science Victories - your problem here is that you're not efficient enough. Depending on what difficulty you play on, you have ~270 turns MINIMUM to win a game. That's more than enough time to win a SV, no matter what the AI does, so you need to adjust your science game to actually focus on science. It is impossible for the AI to match a human player in terms of science output over the course of the entire game due to their lack of utilization of specialist slots and great scientists. They may be ahead of you in the early game (depending on your difficulty), but you have absolutely no fear of losing a straight science game to the AI unless you don't know how to play a science game.

Fourth point - see point 2. What do you mean you have no ability to keep a military? You have all kinds of ability, you're just not using it. The only limits to military are your gpt production and the amount of space you have on and around your land for military units to sit on. I guarantee you are not utilizing either to their fullest extent.

BNW made the AI MORE passive than previous iterations of this game. You can go thru many a game and never be at war with anyone now if you know what you're doing, so the problem doesn't lie with the game, it lies with the player. Some of us have become so disgusted by how peaceful games are now that we actively moved on to mods that make the game harder and include MORE war.
 
Playing with that amount of mods all at once is going to made the AI very sketchy, if not completely insane. I suggest you learn the basegame before you polute it with so many modifications.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

K
[BNW] I going bankrupt in BC. -25 gold/turn
Replies
5
Views
643
martindo
M
K
[BNW] How many cities is best for Immortal and large maps?
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
consentient
consentient
H
[BNW] Quest for Glory - Deity Challenge - Off shoot
Replies
3
Views
545
consentient
consentient
M
AI use of nukes
Replies
0
Views
362
martindo
M
mastrude
Very unpleasant experience playing Civ V
Replies
12
Views
2K
rgduck
R
Top Bottom