V37
- Thread starter Dancing Hoskuld
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Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
If this happens I am out of here. Seriously it destroys games.
Mostly because all animals are savage and attack.
If this happens I am out of here
I thought the main problem with animals spawning inside your borders was they would attack the city. Hence my proposal for a new tag:
AnimalCanNotAttackCity()
The noise, abundance of people, fire or light etc. - would keep them away from the encampment/city.
You only need to keep one or two hunter type units near your cities, to combat this. Plus you get the benefit of capturing/killing more animals and as they are next to your cities - improved food/hammers etc. The less it takes to get to the city - the fresher the meat.
Thus more growth/myths/stories etc.
As for worker type units they may attack - they should be protected anyway. Because of barbarians.
It would be a great help to smaller map players. We do not all want to play on huge or gigantic maps where spawning is much easier.
Also in the late game - when most tiles if not all are owned by Civs. - No more animals. While this may be true for some species - that are now extict or almost. Others still survive - just.
Just a thought.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Many animals could now be made to not be capable of attack. The argument against this was always that they could swarm and keep scouts from being able to move. However... now a unit that can't attack can share a space with an enemy unit that can also not attack. So that's no longer a concern. Not being able to attack, they wouldn't be able to enter a city.
But there are some animals that may still enter city boundaries. With the bBlendIntoCity tag they could do so without attacking the city even though they are technically in a state of permanent 'war' with the player.
Take pigeons for example. Such animals may be capable of causing a little disease in cities where they come to rest. The Assassination mission I'm working on now could be established for hunters (perhaps 'exterminators') to use only on animals, which would allow them to attack such pests hanging out in cities. We could add rats and other vermin. We could give them an AI that motivates them to hang out in cities.
This could be another angle the game presents.
Deer, for example, could still spawn in forests in borders, incapable of attacking as they pretty much never would unless they were diseased and unless attacked themselves. This could keep them huntable long after borders encompass their lands.
I can see a mod that makes animals more harmonious with humans indeed. And the tools to do so are beginning to manifest.
Deer's are a good example. Many years ago I worked for a company based on the outskirts of a town near London.
We often saw deer outside our office windows and even came across them if walking outside. I think I was more scared than the deer - well those with antlers, but luckerly they ran away first.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
Maybe scouts should have an ability to attack wild animals?
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Which is a problem if your playing with unlimited national units off.
Actually, my modmod has done this a long time now and been tested a lot by me. Having harmless animals spawn within borders seems to pose no problem at all there. their AI makes them try to flee out of the border though. I also made animals who get the savage beast promotion ignore borders so in some very rare occasions a predator may attack someone inside the border, but then again, their AI usually keeps them at a distance to the border. So they only attack units inside the border if they can be seen from the outside of the border; usually.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
The main problem is that a city can't work a plot if there is an enemy unit on it.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Would definitely slowdown early game City expansion.
But some people Like that idea. JosEPh
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
This could be done now too since we have the bPassage tag... Scouts could be made to be able to attack. Might not be a bad idea BUT it would then erode the difference between hunters and scouts and until there's a more firm ability to define the differences in their roles, I'm not sure this is wise yet.
OMG, HUNTERS are limited??? No wonder I will only play with it on!
That was pretty much the idea of the tag that would occasionally cause an animal to breach the border... to put it on some promos that could alter their perspective on things. Once diseases are running, rabies would be another example.
You're right about the AI which is why there would need to be some work done there.
That's interesting... you're right and that is an issue. Maybe we should turn that part off if the unit is either invisible to the player or cannot attack. I'll have to find in the code where that's taking place.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Unlimited Units breaks the game too much IMO.
As does pre-Agricultural/Plow combat. Before those warfare meant very little lose of life because loosing as many as 3 people would probably mean the death of the tribe/band since everyone was needed to get enough food etc for the tribe to exist. We don't support that type of combat and I think we need to for the early part of the nomad lifestyle.
As does pre-Agricultural/Plow combat. Before those warfare meant very little lose of life because loosing as many as 3 people would probably mean the death of the tribe/band since everyone was needed to get enough food etc for the tribe to exist. We don't support that type of combat and I think we need to for the early part of the nomad lifestyle.
Machine gunner cannot attack but he should be able to stop someone from using his plot. Perhaps utilizing the bAnimal tag for this is better.
I agree with DH that having no national units kinda breaks aspects of the game.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
How would you seek to model that?
That's a good point.
I don't see the need. If it 'breaks' the game, it's simply due to something about a unit being out of balance imo. There are a few units that do and probably always would so those have been given the exception and remain limited despite the option. But MOST units should not be limited imo. Just don't see the point. If you have a special, slightly superior unit, due to having obtained a special achievement, like Mammoths or Big Cats or Loki Fists or whatever it is, that should be a special era for you where you can reign fairly supreme and it would be difficult to go up against you. A limit of 15 or whatever it is does nothing but annoy.
Well, I do play with unlimited national units off. But can not see a problem - just increase the number by 1 or 2 units.
If it is 3 make it 5, if it is 5 make it 7, etc. Just 2 extra units to patrol your borders. Job done.
Of course a player may not use them for that initially. But I am sure they will soon learn. Part of the fun of the game -always learning.
meatball20
rockhound
they say the stock market can tell the time but how much hay can a we farm in may on the sun ray for a whole day. we need a stock ticker screen to go with a little pickleing dog fighting match.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Dragonmosesj
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2015
- Messages
- 16
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Possible conflict with Start as Minors Option.
Plus the players that only like to play Conquest Victory Condition would probably protest that they can "rush" an early AI like they are used to doing.
The Civics do need some reshaping now that we've had this set for awhile.
JosEPh
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Possible conflict with Start as Minors Option.
Plus the players that only like to play Conquest Victory Condition would probably protest that they can "rush" an early AI like they are used to doing.
The Civics do need some reshaping now that we've had this set for awhile.
JosEPh
Have we fixed the problems with Start as Minors that greatly hampers the AI?
It is difficult to simulating such a different combat which is foreign to modern minds. War Weariness is an interesting possible solution. Greatly limiting the number of available units would be another. Having you city need to use population to build units is another possibility, ie some units cost a population point as well as
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