C2C - Building Review Thread

Faustmouse · Apr 13, 2014

Northstar1989 said:
I posted these in a different thread earlier, but the modders who introduced these buildings either didn't notice it or have went inactive for the moment... I'd still like to get these buildings fixed, so, the following two buildings are bugged...

Branding Hut - Technically not an error, but a problem with the choice of prerequisites. This building requires the "Fire Pit" building as a prerequisite, however it does not become obsolete until the discovery of Medicine, nor is it replaced by a superior building that performs the same function. This means it cannot be built in new cities after the construction of the "Great Bonfire" National Wonder, which constructs a free Bonfire (the upgraded version of the Fire Pit) in all cities.

Regards,
Northstar

Here would be a better place for me to see it, so if you have further idea/complainments, please post them here. As DH said, the National Standard SHOULD work now. And I will add an OR prereq for Bon Fire for the Branding Hut. Thanks! :goodjob:

climat · Apr 14, 2014

Speaking of monasteries.. Is anything decided on the fate of Furniture Making tech?

Dancing Hoskuld · Apr 14, 2014

climat said:
Speaking of monasteries.. Is anything decided on the fate of Furniture Making tech?

Joseph and I have stated our problems with the tech and Hydro is considering what to do about it.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 5, 2014

@Faustmouse With your National Belief buildings can you change the strategy to say what the effect of the free buildings will be eg "Gives a free XX which reduces crime and war weariness in all cities". It just makes it easier for the player.

Faustmouse · May 23, 2014

Dancing Hoskuld said:
@Faustmouse With your National Belief buildings can you change the strategy to say what the effect of the free buildings will be eg "Gives a free XX which reduces crime and war weariness in all cities". It just makes it easier for the player.

Ok I will change this.

@Hydro:

Based on RWN's lists I looked at the least used manufactured resources and tried to find some use for them. Your (and others!) opinion is appreciated.

Caesium -> Geology Lab
Berlinite -> Geology Lab
Borax -> Geology Lab
Cinnabar -> Geology Lab / (Maybe as a Dye?)
Chromite -> Geology Lab / Cars
Chalk -> Geology Lab / School / Art Supply
Mascagnite -> Geology Lab
Hematite -> Geology Lab
Lazulite -> Geology Lab
Ice Cream -> +

from Malls
Kevlar -> Modern Infantry/Strike Teams
Zinc -> Geology Lab
Thungsten -> Geology Lab
Pyrite -> Geology Lab
Pumice Stone -> Geology Lab
Nickel -> Geology Lab
Moon rocks -> Geology Lab
Personal Replicators -> Modern House?
Personal Electronics -> Modern House?
Electroactive Polymers -> ?
Tapestries -> There was a wonder...
Porcelain Wares -> Antique Shop / Luxury early
Cellulase Capsules -> Food Bonus from...? (Maybe all the Farms?)
Pasta -> Food Bonus
Organic Computers -> :science:

for very complex science buildings / maybe requirement for them?
Marzipan -> Luxury early
Soylent Green -> Food Bonus / :Mad: /

with Cannibalism

These were the least used (some of them not at all).

And here we have some resources that aren't produced at all:

Moon rocks -> Apollo Programm
Anti-Matter -> An advanced Collider (Wonder), later by a normal building
Mega Strong Alloy -> Didn't I have a factory? Otherwise I'll make it.
Video Games -> New Wonder like Broadway?

I know this will insanely boost the Geology Lab's Output, but I still thinks Labs need more :science:

and a higher :gold:

cost.

Here are some new corporation ideas as well. Please let me know which of these might be better buildings.
Can a corporation even have that many resources?

Spoiler :

Some old corporations need some "love" as well

Later I'll have some time to look through them and post my proposed changes.

Yudishtira · May 23, 2014

Great idea and great work. Just some suggestions.

Borax is primarily an industrial chemical.
From Wikipedia:

Borax has a wide variety of uses. It is a component of many detergents, cosmetics, and enamel glazes. It is also used to make buffer solutions in biochemistry, as a fire ******ant, as an anti-fungal compound for fiberglass, as a flux in metallurgy, neutron-capture shields for radioactive sources, a texturing agent in cooking, and as a precursor for other boron compounds.

However, many of these uses took some discovering long after borax and the prereq techs etc. were discovered/revealed, so imo for example the fire ******ant use should probably require some modern-era tech in addition to borax and firefighting.

Zinc, tungsten and nickel are metals, so should bonus manufacturing (and maybe chemistry) not geology. Tungsten carbide was a much-vaunted additive in steel production for specialist applications in the 70s - don't hear of it much lately so.... :dunno:

Hematite, pyrite and cinnabar are also ores as well as being minerals, so the first two could bonus iron production and the third should have a building to produce Mercury if it doesn't already (yes I know could be another unused resource - but a useful one

)

Pumice is (supposedly) a skincare product for exfoliating I guess.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 23, 2014

I have been thinking about the Alpha Male/Female buildings. Currently they require the civic Strongman and go obsolete with Patriarchy/Matriarchy. Many people have requested that they don't obsolete. I have therefore come up with an idea to change them. It will need more fleshing out and only goes up to the modern/transhuman era.

Currently:

Alpha Female +2 stability, -2 disease, obsolete Matriarchy
Alpha Male +2 stability, -2 crime, obsolete Patriarchy

Suggested:

Alpha Female +2 stability, -2 disease, upgrade to Matriarch, -1 happy with Patriarchy, +1 happy with Matriarchy

Alpha Male +2 stability, -2 crime, obsolete Patriarchy, upgrade to Patriarch, +1 happy with Patriarchy, -1 happy with Matriarchy

Matriarch requires Matriarchy: +5 stability, -5 disease, upgrade Women's Committee, -2 happy with Patriarchy, -1 happy with Matriarchy, +1 otherwise

Women's Committee requires Emancipation:
Old Boy's Network requires Emancipation:

Faustmouse · May 23, 2014

Yudishtira said:
Great idea and great work. Just some suggestions.

Borax is primarily an industrial chemical.
From Wikipedia:

However, many of these uses took some discovering long after borax and the prereq techs etc. were discovered/revealed, so imo for example the fire ******ant use should probably require some modern-era tech in addition to borax and firefighting.

But it is "some sort of mineral", isn't it? That's why I put it into the Geology Lab in the first place. But these are other great uses to make it more used in the game.

Yudishtira said:
Zinc, tungsten and nickel are metals, so should bonus manufacturing (and maybe chemistry) not geology. Tungsten carbide was a much-vaunted additive in steel production for specialist applications in the 70s - don't hear of it much lately so....

But they aren't pure when you find them in the earth. That's why I put them in the Geology Lab: They exist in nature mostly/only in mineral form. We don't represent this with aother resource (thank god...), but since they have a Mine building, they can be both I think. Isn't Tungsten used in space technology due it's high melting point? They can (and should) boost industry, too.

Yudishtira said:
Hematite, pyrite and cinnabar are also ores as well as being minerals, so the first two could bonus iron production and the third should have a building to produce Mercury if it doesn't already (yes I know could be another unused resource - but a useful one)

I was thinking if we should remove Iron Ore as prereq for the Iron Smelter and add these instead. But then Iron would be REALLY rare... But maybe a "+1 :hammers:

from these" for the Iron-Smelter would be a good idea.

Yudishtira said:
Pumice is (supposedly) a skincare product for exfoliating I guess.

So maybe +1 :Health: or - Disease for Beauty Salon or so?

Good suggestions!

Hydromancerx · May 24, 2014

Dancing Hoskuld said:
I have been thinking about the Alpha Male/Female buildings. Currently they require the civic Strongman and go obsolete with Patriarchy/Matriarchy. Many people have requested that they don't obsolete. I have therefore come up with an idea to change them. It will need more fleshing out and only goes up to the modern/transhuman era.

Currently:
Alpha Female +2 stability, -2 disease, obsolete Matriarchy
Alpha Male +2 stability, -2 crime, obsolete Patriarchy

Suggested:
Alpha Female +2 stability, -2 disease, upgrade to Matriarch, -1 happy with Patriarchy, +1 happy with Matriarchy

Alpha Male +2 stability, -2 crime, obsolete Patriarchy, upgrade to Patriarch, +1 happy with Patriarchy, -1 happy with Matriarchy

Matriarch requires Matriarchy: +5 stability, -5 disease, upgrade Women's Committee, -2 happy with Patriarchy, -1 happy with Matriarchy, +1 otherwise

Women's Committee requires Emancipation:
Old Boy's Network requires Emancipation:

I like these ideas but if they require Strongman won't they disappear if you chnage civics to Patriarchy or Matriarchy and thus cannot really "replace" them?

Hydromancerx · May 24, 2014

Faustmouse said:
Ok I will change this.

@Hydro:

Based on RWN's lists I looked at the least used manufactured resources and tried to find some use for them. Your (and others!) opinion is appreciated.

Caesium -> Geology Lab
Berlinite -> Geology Lab
Borax -> Geology Lab
Cinnabar -> Geology Lab / (Maybe as a Dye?)
Chromite -> Geology Lab / Cars
Chalk -> Geology Lab / School / Art Supply
Mascagnite -> Geology Lab
Hematite -> Geology Lab
Lazulite -> Geology Lab
Ice Cream -> + from Malls
Kevlar -> Modern Infantry/Strike Teams
Zinc -> Geology Lab
Thungsten -> Geology Lab
Pyrite -> Geology Lab
Pumice Stone -> Geology Lab
Nickel -> Geology Lab
Moon rocks -> Geology Lab
Personal Replicators -> Modern House?
Personal Electronics -> Modern House?
Electroactive Polymers -> ?
Tapestries -> There was a wonder...
Porcelain Wares -> Antique Shop / Luxury early
Cellulase Capsules -> Food Bonus from...? (Maybe all the Farms?)
Pasta -> Food Bonus
Organic Computers -> for very complex science buildings / maybe requirement for them?
Marzipan -> Luxury early
Soylent Green -> Food Bonus / :Mad: / with Cannibalism

These were the least used (some of them not at all).

And here we have some resources that aren't produced at all:

Moon rocks -> Apollo Programm
Anti-Matter -> An advanced Collider (Wonder), later by a normal building
Mega Strong Alloy -> Didn't I have a factory? Otherwise I'll make it.
Video Games -> New Wonder like Broadway?

I know this will insanely boost the Geology Lab's Output, but I still thinks Labs need more and a higher cost.

A lot of these are good ideas. I will probably add some to building that fall in my mod like the Geology ones.

Note the Mega Strong Alloy and Anti-Matter stuff is for later in the Galactic Era and we just have not fleshed that out yet building wise. The Trans-Human needs some more tweaking before we get there.

Moon rocks I have plans for with lunar missions so we need to hold up on that. And I already added stuff for the video games after reading RWN's post.

Note that Soylent Green is tricky, since while it is eating humans its doing it in a way that the public doesn't know its eating humans.

Faustmouse · May 24, 2014

Hydromancerx said:
Moon rocks I have plans for with lunar missions so we need to hold up on that. And I already added stuff for the video games after reading RWN's post.

Will this be like your Mars Missions, or will the moon terrains come into effect (I doubt it

).
I'd like to see a realistic progression like:

1) First unmanned orbital flight
2) First Satellite
3) First manned orbital flight
4) First space walk
5) first satellite around the moon
6) first lander on the moons surface
7) first land and recover from the moon
8) first human on the moon

For example. Each of them could be NW, reduce it's costs when someone had done it (reverse like the Warlord line of units) and costs a lot of money.

There is a game, Kerbal Space Programm (AWESOME!!!) where you are basically NASA, with missions you gain science points and with those you can buy more advanced space ship parts. Very challenging and good thought out, eventhou it is in alpha stage.
Anyways, part of this game is to build space crafts - rockets, rovers, buggies, space shuttle, orbital planes... There are people that build U-Boats, Helicoper or VOTL Aircrafts with it! I was wondering if it is possible to convert the spacecrafts build there to 3D models for our space units - if there are not enough graphics out there.

Hydromancerx said:
Note that Soylent Green is tricky, since while it is eating humans its doing it in a way that the public doesn't know its eating humans.

Just this is the case in the story doesn't mean we have to have it the same way in C2C. Maybe people know here that it is human meat. It's our choice.

Hydromancerx · May 24, 2014

Faustmouse said:
Will this be like your Mars Missions, or will the moon terrains come into effect (I doubt it ).

Before Multi-Maps yes they will be just like the Mars Colony Wonders. But AFTER multi-maps are put in they can be converted to city vicinity buildings on Lunar terrain.

Yudishtira · May 24, 2014

Faustmouse said:
Just this is the case in the story doesn't mean we have to have it the same way in C2C. Maybe people know here that it is human meat. It's our choice.

This would defeat the purpose of calling it Soylent Green. It must be a secret breach of the cannibalism taboo. Therefore imo it should not be obtainable while in Cannibalism Worldview.

However, I do think there needs to be a parallel building or resource for those still in cannibalism (I'm assuming it's possible to be), as the benefits of openly continuing the practice should be greater than those of covertly doing so.

Rwn · May 24, 2014

Dancing Hoskuld said:
I have been thinking about the Alpha Male/Female buildings. Currently they require the civic Strongman and go obsolete with Patriarchy/Matriarchy. Many people have requested that they don't obsolete. I have therefore come up with an idea to change them. It will need more fleshing out and only goes up to the modern/transhuman era.[/INDENT]

Also, shouldn't Alpha Male and Female be mutually exclusive? (and maybe offer slightly more powerful benefits to compensate) This would support city specialization.

Dancing Hoskuld · May 24, 2014

Hydromancerx said:
I like these ideas but if they require Strongman won't they disappear if you chnage civics to Patriarchy or Matriarchy and thus cannot really "replace" them?

I thought I said stop them being civic buildings.

Rwn said:
Also, shouldn't Alpha Male and Female be mutually exclusive? (and maybe offer slightly more powerful benefits to compensate) This would support city specialization.

No. Usually the gender roles don't overlap so you can have both. Same with matriarch and patriarch. It is only when gender roles start to break down or one tries to overthrow the other you get problems. For instance. I know a family where the husband comes from a line of patriarchs and the wife from a line of matriarchs. It can get heated at times but it works.

Rwn · May 24, 2014

Dancing Hoskuld said:
No. Usually the gender roles don't overlap so you can have both. Same with matriarch and patriarch. It is only when gender roles start to break down or one tries to overthrow the other you get problems. For instance. I know a family where the husband comes from a line of patriarchs and the wife from a line of matriarchs. It can get heated at times but it works.

I'm not so much arguing about realism rather than gameplay interest

climat · Jun 3, 2014

1. United Nations, Archimedes Workshop, East Indian Company don't produce :culture:

but have <CommerceChangeDoubleTimes> tag for :culture:

.
Do they have it because of <CommerceChangeOriginalOwners> tag? What does this tag do? I found that many wonders that don't produce :culture:

have it.

2. Specialists can produce +1 :culture:

with Penicillin wonder. I have no idea about the relation between Penicillin and culture. What is it?

Mousey_Commander · Jun 5, 2014

I would just like to point out that the whole concept of Alphas and Betas among pack animals is wildly outdated and largely agreed to be pseudoscience at this point.

Rwn · Jun 5, 2014

Minigrinch said:
I would just like to point out that the whole concept of Alphas and Betas among pack animals is wildly outdated and largely agreed to be pseudoscience at this point.

Err, do you have a source? Wikipedia for example do not mention this as outdated, except in the case of wild grey wolf packs.

Still, I assume you're talking about the alpha male/female and omega child crew buildings, I've no idea whether it's accurate or not for prehistoric humans.

(you should probably continue this discussion in the "Inaccuracies (historical, scientific, logic...)" thread)

timschuett · Jun 5, 2014

Faustmouse said:
Ok I will change this.

@Hydro:

Based on RWN's lists I looked at the least used manufactured resources and tried to find some use for them. Your (and others!) opinion is appreciated.
Too many resources for Geology Lab. makes it overpowered
Caesium -> Geology Labhighly reactive and caustic. used to treat other minerals, but probably shouldn't be its own resource
Berlinite -> Geology LabRare, aluminum phosphate. We already have both in game. Delete?
Borax -> Geology Labalso used in detergent. soap factory?
Cinnabar -> Geology Lab / (Maybe as a Dye?)
Chromite -> Geology Lab / Carsused in steel production; stainless steel specifically
Chalk -> Geology Lab / School / Art Supply
Mascagnite -> Geology Labvery few applications, Fertilizers and a source of lithium is all I found. Maybe remove it as a resource?
Hematite -> Geology Lab
Lazulite -> Geology Labalso considered a gem, so jewelry store, gem cutter et al.
Ice Cream -> + from Malls
Kevlar -> Modern Infantry/Strike Teams
Zinc -> Geology Labused in wiring and batteries, so link it to electrical property somehow
Thungsten -> Geology Lab
Pyrite -> Geology Lab
Pumice Stone -> Geology Labalso used in industrial cleaners/degreasers, so maybe parts plant?
Nickel -> Geology Labheavily used in steel production, steel smelter or perhaps coreq of steel?
Moon rocks -> Geology Labdoesn't geo- logy mean stude of the Earth? why would moon rock help here?
Personal Replicators -> Modern House?
Personal Electronics -> Modern House?
Electroactive Polymers -> ?future droids/ combat robots could use this are an actuator
Tapestries -> There was a wonder...
Porcelain Wares -> Antique Shop / Luxury early
Cellulase Capsules -> Food Bonus from...? (Maybe all the Farms?)
Pasta -> Food Bonus
Organic Computers -> for very complex science buildings / maybe requirement for them?
Marzipan -> Luxury early
Soylent Green -> Food Bonus / :Mad: / with Cannibalism

These were the least used (some of them not at all).

And here we have some resources that aren't produced at all:

Moon rocks -> Apollo Programm
Anti-Matter -> An advanced Collider (Wonder), later by a normal building
Mega Strong Alloy -> Didn't I have a factory? Otherwise I'll make it.
Video Games -> New Wonder like Broadway?

I know this will insanely boost the Geology Lab's Output, but I still thinks Labs need more and a higher cost.

Here are some new corporation ideas as well. Please let me know which of these might be better buildings.
Can a corporation even have that many resources?

Spoiler :

Education: Computers, Paper, Books, Holo Projectors, Pencils, Televisions, (Energy Drink), Type Writers,
Flash Memory Devices, , Diskettes, Organic Computers, Chalk,

Electronics: Semiconductors, Fiberglass, Copper Wire, Biopolymers, Microgenerators, antigrav generators,
Transistors, (Plasma Generators), Graphene, Nanogenerators, Electrolyte Cells, Nano Actuators, Electroactive Polymers,

Electonics 2: Service Bots, Holo Projectors, Radios, Androids, Televisions, Cellphones, Power Tools,
Personal Electronics, Persinal Replicators,

Appliances: Blender, Microwaves, Service Bots, Refrigerators, Vaccum, Washer Dryer, Dishwashers,

Geology: Flint, Fossils, Mars Rocks, Sand, Lithium, Manganese, Berlinite, Borax, Caesium, Chalk, Chromite, Cinnabar, Cobalt,
Hematite, Lazulite, Magnesium, Mascagnite, Moon Rocks, Nickel, Pumice Stone, Pyrite, Tungsten, Zinc, Iron, Copper, Bauxit, Stone, Marble,
Sulfur, Coal, Uranium, Salt, Gold, Silver, Tin, Amber, Diamond, Ruby, turquoise, Platinum, Geode, Titan,
This should be split into multiple corps. IMHO, a corp shouldn't have more than a few resources (6?) and shouldn't compete with more than 30-40% of the other corps. I've been meaning to work this out more thoroughly; its something that bothered me since vanilla
Lab Supply: Enzymes, Glass, Hydrogen, Chemicals, Novus Chemicals, Computers, Paper, Algae, Antimatter, I really like this one

Cars: Tire, Chromite, Aluminium, Antigrav Generator, Titan, Quantonium CrystalThis one too... But curious as to the quantonium crystals and antigravity. Those aren't options on my Tacoma. Maybe have a Futuristic transportataion corp separate from a GM/Ford/BMW knockoff

How about an aircraft corp like Boeing/airbus/ Mig? Could give bonuses to aircraft/airlift capacity, + to aircraft production or maybe some free promos(range, evasion etc) or xp

Drugs: Meth, Novus Chemicals, Alcohol, Cannabis, LSD, Poison, Extasy, coca, opium.

Also, Pharma corporations are HUGE. Maybe make a Glaxco-smith-cline or AstraZeneca knock-off using Pharmaceuticals as a resource and providing health, as well as the more cartel-y looking one you suggested

Some old corporations need some "love" as well Later I'll have some time to look through them and post my proposed changes.True. I want to taackle this, but won't have the time til July (and skill till LONG after that)

Sorry it took a while to get this out. Missed it somehow Faust

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