4th scenario - American civil war?

Thanks for sharing cuc!

I would be a bit disappointed if we wouldn't receive any new civs for the regular game as well. Can't blame them if they don't with nine new ones in G&K. But it would be an excellent opportunity to add some extra native American civs into the game and bring a greater variation in distributed civs around the world. I'm not a big scenario player, I've only played a couple scenario's a few times so I wouldn't be sure about buying this DLC.
 
tofofnts said:
How on earth do you measure how large a war is :confused:
Also there were quite a few bigger wars (notably the An Shi Rebellion, Mongol Conquests & Napoleonic Wars)
Of course all previous wars had inferior technology, that's kinda how technological advances work. Also, if you use death toll as a measure of how "large" a war is, the Mexican revolution was the largest war fought on the American continents (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Revolution)
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So there is no way to measure how large a war is? I think its safe to say that WW2 was larger than the Vietnam war. The US civil war had battles that involved hundreds of thousands of men, I don't think Genghis Khan ever fought a battle with so many men involved.

Regardless, the US civil war was an extremely significant conflict by any scale. And it probably was the first "modern" war. I forgot to mention in my other post that it's the first major war where photographs were taken. Every war before that was depicted by artists or by writings. But we can actually see the soldiers and the battlefields of the Civil War in photographs.
 
aluelkdf said:
So there is no way to measure how large a war is? I think its safe to say that WW2 was larger than the Vietnam war. The US civil war had battles that involved hundreds of thousands of men, I don't think Genghis Khan ever fought a battle with so many men involved.

Regardless, the US civil war was an extremely significant conflict by any scale. And it probably was the first "modern" war. I forgot to mention in my other post that it's the first major war where photographs were taken. Every war before that was depicted by artists or by writings. But we can actually see the soldiers and the battlefields of the Civil War in photographs.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Napoleonic absolutely dwarfed ACW. Pretty much any European war for the previous 200 years was larger than ACW. Landmass on which it was fought, number of combatants, etc.
 
aluelkdf said:
So there is no way to measure how large a war is? I think its safe to say that WW2 was larger than the Vietnam war. The US civil war had battles that involved hundreds of thousands of men, I don't think Genghis Khan ever fought a battle with so many men involved.
Click to expand...
That's not really fair, comparing the total manpower of battles with a time difference of about 600 years isn't it? For that time it would probably be nearly impossible to maintain such a large army. You'll have to give credit to the Mongolians that from a couple of fighting tribes they managed to put up a force that would create one of the largest empires that the world has ever known.
And I'm pretty sure that more people were involved in the Mongolian conquest, the battles were fought in an area from Poland to Japan on two different continents for several decades and even influenced language (in Dutch, 'Mongool' - Mongolian is also being used as a swearing word). On top of that I doubt that during the ACW any commands were given to completely wipe out cities, or even civilizations.

Regardless, the US civil war was an extremely significant conflict by any scale. And it probably was the first "modern" war. I forgot to mention in my other post that it's the first major war where photographs were taken. Every war before that was depicted by artists or by writings. But we can actually see the soldiers and the battlefields of the Civil War in photographs.
Click to expand...
I do not really see the extreme significance of the ACW, besides it had a major influence on the history of the USA. Of course, it must have had quite an impact on military development but that counts for just about every major conflict that has taken place. Just think about for example the V2 rockets and the jets that Germany developed during WWII or the simple but brilliant tank design of the Soviets.
I think the only reason I've received lessons about the ACW at high school is because it was explained that it was about getting rid of slavery - which appears to be false, or at least had a way more minor role in it than I was teached. Or at least, some American told me that. But please, correct me if I'm wrong on that subject. I do not know that much about the ACW.

I'm not sure about the modern part thing. Indeed some new weaponry and tactics were used, but WWI introduced some technology that would determine all of the following wars: planes, tanks, chemical weapons. Shiny outfits also disappeared. But I think that is really a matter of opinion as the ACW also had plenty of unique new things. If I'm correct the ACW saw the first submarine (with an unpleasant journey for the crew), right?

I don't want to be a smartass, but also about the photography during the ACW - the camera's at that time weren't developed enough yet to capture fast movement. It was first used during that war - but as far as I understand it this wasn't on a large scale yet or at least not useful to photograph the battles. Though it was one of the last wars in which drawers were used on a large scale (I've read this in the National Geographic of May - the Netherlands).
 
Duke Maynard said:
Sorry, Napoleonic absolutely dwarfed ACW. Pretty much any European war for the previous 200 years was larger than ACW. Landmass on which it was fought, number of combatants, etc.
Click to expand...

I was incorrect, the Napoleonic wars were bigger, I looked it up. But the Napoleonic wars were an exception. The ACW was probably bigger than most European wars of the 19th century. There were probably dozens of wars in Europe in the 19th century and most of them are just footnotes in history.

The Franco-Prussian war was one of the big European wars of the 19th century, and was right around the same time as the ACW. According to Wikipedia the total dead in the Franco-Prussian war was 167,000. The total dead in the ACW was 625,000. I'm not trying to argue or anything, I'm just saying the ACW was a significant conflict, especially by 19th century American standards.

I hope the 4th scenario is the ACW, because it would still make an interesting and fun scenario.
 
nokmirt said:
Great news! The files are there for a DLC. Unless those files are there to be used with the 2nd expansion, which is possible, because many icons etc, went into GnK from vanilla. Did you find anything else of interest poking around?
Click to expand...

No civ goes with the Civil War... think Korea and Wonders of the Ancient World. Maybe another 7.50$ (U.S) 2 in 1 type deal in August with an accompanying patch for the base game. But note that it wasn't just a scenario, we got wonder add-ons in the base game in the ancient era. Could something similarly be added into the base game with a Civil War scenario???
 
Bakspatel said:
That's not really fair, comparing the total manpower of battles with a time difference of about 600 years isn't it? For that time it would probably be nearly impossible to maintain such a large army. You'll have to give credit to the Mongolians that from a couple of fighting tribes they managed to put up a force that would create one of the largest empires that the world has ever known.
And I'm pretty sure that more people were involved in the Mongolian conquest, the battles were fought in an area from Poland to Japan on two different continents for several decades and even influenced language (in Dutch, 'Mongool' - Mongolian is also being used as a swearing word). On top of that I doubt that during the ACW any commands were given to completely wipe out cities, or even civilizations.


I do not really see the extreme significance of the ACW, besides it had a major influence on the history of the USA. Of course, it must have had quite an impact on military development but that counts for just about every major conflict that has taken place. Just think about for example the V2 rockets and the jets that Germany developed during WWII or the simple but brilliant tank design of the Soviets.
I think the only reason I've received lessons about the ACW at high school is because it was explained that it was about getting rid of slavery - which appears to be false, or at least had a way more minor role in it than I was teached. Or at least, some American told me that. But please, correct me if I'm wrong on that subject. I do not know that much about the ACW.

I'm not sure about the modern part thing. Indeed some new weaponry and tactics were used, but WWI introduced some technology that would determine all of the following wars: planes, tanks, chemical weapons. Shiny outfits also disappeared. But I think that is really a matter of opinion as the ACW also had plenty of unique new things. If I'm correct the ACW saw the first submarine (with an unpleasant journey for the crew), right?

I don't want to be a smartass, but also about the photography during the ACW - the camera's at that time weren't developed enough yet to capture fast movement. It was first used during that war - but as far as I understand it this wasn't on a large scale yet or at least not useful to photograph the battles. Though it was one of the last wars in which drawers were used on a large scale (I've read this in the National Geographic of May - the Netherlands).
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to compare the Mongols to America due to a 600 year difference, but I was responding to a comment who seems to think that Genghis Khan had more men under his command than General Grant. And cities were destroyed in the ACW. In the ACW Atlanta was destroyed, and a 60 mile wide path from Atlanta to Savannah was destroyed.

I don't think the ACW was very significant in terms of world history, what I meant is it was significant in terms of major battles and things like that. And I agree that in reality slavery didn't have much to do with the war. The south saw the war as more of a war of independence, and the north just wanted to preserve the union.

And I'm not a photography expert, but I think the soldier basically had to stand there and be complete still for many minutes to allow the film to get the exposure it needed. But we can still look at photos from the time unlike the American Revolution or the Napoleonic Wars.

WWI did have a lot of new technology too. But I think the ACW was the very start of it. It all depends how it's defined. WWI had tanks and airplanes. But the first time a machine (the railroad) was used in war (at least a major war) was the ACW. It's a toss up on which war was the first "modern" war. I think it could be either WWI or the ACW.
 
It'd be surely a Civ in this scenario,but it cannot be a Civ in a standard game . What I do wonder is if such dlc contains only the scenario or contain a scenario plus a new civ .
 
The_J said:
Moderator Action: Guys, this is not a history thread.
For history we have another subforum in the offtopic area.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I just found it an interesting discussion to get involved into =)
Moderator Action: Please don't comment on moderator actions in public. Do it via private message the next time.

I'm curious how this scenario is going to pack out and when it'll be released. I doubt any time soon, they probably give it a few months and then come with it to motivate players to keep on playing G&Ks.
 
Bakspatel said:
Sorry, I just found it an interesting discussion to get involved into =)

I'm curious how this scenario is going to pack out and when it'll be released. I doubt any time soon, they probably give it a few months and then come with it to motivate players to keep on playing G&Ks.
Click to expand...

Sorry, you are not allowed to be interested in history, unless you express your interest within the pre-designated parameters. We need to keep stuff serious here.....
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
You know what would blow our collective minds? If this scenario is the next DLC and the accompanying civ is the CSA.
Click to expand...

... it would you know. Even though there are like 50 civs that are more deserving, including Israel, Malta and Cameroon. It would be a fun change though and totally left of field
 
aluelkdf said:
Regardless, the US civil war was an extremely significant conflict by any scale. And it probably was the first "modern" war.
Click to expand...

I'd say the Crimean War (1853-56) was on a wider scale, and used (especially on the naval side) more innovative weapons/designs of the time.

EDIT: Sorry The_J, didn't see your notice before responding.

Nyanko said:
... it would you know. Even though there are like 50 civs that are more deserving, including Israel, Malta and Cameroon. It would be a fun change though and totally left of field
Click to expand...

The Wonders of the Ancient World DLC had a scenario with UU art for the new Hittite and Mesopotamian civ, so not exactly new. :)
 
I've accidently stumbled upon a music piece named CivilWar in the assets\DLC\Expansion\Sound\Streamed\Music\Scenario Music

There are 3 of the available scenarios (Smoky Skies, Medieval World, Fall of Rome) and a 4th one named CivilWar Music..

Isn't that nice? So there WAS a 4th scenario, they just scrapped a long time ago and forgot to leave that song out.. or it's just misplaced.
 
Interesting find, although I don't know if it will ever show up as a 4th DLC, since I can't imagine what they'd pack it in with. Usually it's a civ and a scenario, but there wouldn't be an actual civilization to add that would make sense.
 
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