RBP11 - We, the People

RBP11: We, the People

Game Concept: Democracy replaces Despotism as the starting government for all civilizations.

ROSTER for easy reference:
T-hawk
Speaker
Reagan
LKendter
JMB
Amirsan

Rules Changes:
DEMOCRACY government requires no tech and is the starting government type.
REPUBLIC tech cost is halved to 14.
PRINTING PRESS and DEMOCRACY tech costs are reduced from 36 and 68 respectively to 20 each.

The tech cost reductions are there to reduce the impact of the AI researching the useless technologies. Despotism is unchanged; both it and Democracy are available from game start.

Civ: America
Difficulty: Deity
Map: Standard, 30% land, Pangaea
Terrain: Standard
Opponents: Random
Barbarians: Restless
Victory: Any

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I'd been kicking around this idea for a while, and mentioned it in an offhand manner in the discussions at the end of the TH4 thread, and it got jumped on as an interesting idea, so here goes.

This is a bit of a sandbox/experimental game, just to try out something new. No variant rules or goals.

I'd like a few barbarians around, so we can try out the ability to cash rush units where needed. The other settings may as well be standard unless someone has a preference. I will play up to the first 30 turns and reject it if we don't at least meet one neighboring civ.

I've made the .bix file, but it's subject to any further editing and comments before I start the game with it.

Discussion on the opening strategies is also welcome, of course.

T-Hawk--sounds like a great game. I would love to join this one, but have to cut back on the SGs--trying to drop down to no more than two at one time.

I will be watching closely--especially how the AI expansion goes.

Good luck!

Ooooooooooh... Tempting. But I'm in one Deity game, and I have two other SGs, and there's Epic 31 coming up...
Next time, I'll join. I'll lurk this game.
[lurking]

My gut feeling tells me we will need to keep our early cities smaller than usual. Without MP or cheap temples, we will have happiness problems quite quickly. Building settlers from second and third cities might not be a bad idea. Someone who has some time might want to take a look at whether a granary will still be necessary. I assume it will, but with a city at size 6 will likely require luxuries around 40-50% and that will hurt....

Dag, no real Deity experience, so I can't join...but it looks cool. Call me [lurking] as well...

Actually, can you do us lesser players a favor and make available a Start on Regent or Monarch with the same mod? 4000BC is fine... if not, I understand

But it will hurt much less in democracy, with effectively twice the cash flow. Especially with worker(s) in hyperdrive. I'm not sure exactly where it will balance out, but I don't think it'll be too bad.

Anyway, can I join? Sounds interesting.

Renata

I would like to play this one I just think that this variant will hurt the AI more that the human player: they are not programmed counter happiness problems with luxury spending...i'm not sure, how many content citizens the AI has at the start, but this really could make them less competitive -OTOH, they will not suffer that much from their bad worker management at the beginning as irrigating grassland does give advantages to them.

speaker, I do not share your opinion on the luxury tax: every worker working a commerce tile will make himself content through the extra commerce he will be producing: big, productive cities early will be the way to go -I think. Being industrious and in democracy will also help a lot with letting the cities grow quickly.

How much extra commerce will each tile earn? I really should know this, but alas I don't. I didn't even think about the hyper workers. Is there any way to change how many AI citizens are initially content? If so we might want to give them a bit of an advantage there.

You change a field called default AI level (or something like that).
It is normally set a regent.

In theory, a lower level = more content people.

If people need the exact spot, I will have to check the editor at home.

in republic/democracy every tile that produces at least one commerce generates one more. So the luxury is a non-issue. The main economic problem we will have is paying for the units before marketplaces, so we really will need to think exactly how many units we actually need.

crosspost with Lee. Do you have two or three content citizens on regent? I think three should be fine for the AI so it can grow during its initial expansion, they will hook up luxuries later.

Two on regent. Three would be warlord.

Renata

Originally posted by Renata
Two on regent. Three would be warlord.

Renata

Click to expand...

well this makes things more intresting I assume that the AI corruption level is also determined by the "default AI level" which means that it gets even less corruption if we do not make further changes here.

I'd suggest letting the default level an regent, but giving regent three content citizens i'm not absolutely positive that this can be done though...haven't been doing much with the editor for a long time.

Well, if Mazarin (or someone else) can't play or if there is enough interest for a second team, I'll play...

JMB

Put me down for a second team, if there are enough people. If there's only enough for one game, I'll gladly not claim a spot. I really shouldn't be getting into a second game at this point, but this is just too juicy...and kinda off-the-wall enough for me. If there's a desire for a lower difficulty level game (more exploring than playing), I'd go there, too. I'm kinda looking for a fun, light game....

Arathorn

If we are talking first come-first serve, I think Renata grabbed the last spot. Looks like there is probably sufficient interest for a second team. Perhaps JMB and Mazarin could grab ChrTh (we also have one Emperor player) and we could do a bit of competing teams?

Edit- Looks like I cross-posted with Arathorn there. I think there is definitely interest for two teams.

I just realized that I crossposted with Renata for the last spot on the roster. So I too would be in the second team if we get enough players.

I would like to play if you form a second team as well. I have limited Diety experience, but plenty of Emperor

Wow, is the market for RBP games this thin with Sirian and Charis out of the picture?

I'd suggest letting the default level an regent, but giving regent three content citizens i'm not absolutely positive that this can be done though...haven't been doing much with the editor for a long time.

Correct; it can be done and would be how I'd do it if I were inclined to make such a change. But I'm not; seeing how the AI deals with starting in democracy could be just as interesting as dealing with it ourselves. I'm really curious to see if they're going to manage to use the luxury slider at all.


OK, the signups are getting a bit confusing. I've got:
T-hawk
Speaker
Reagan
TriviAl
LKendter
ChrTh
Renata
Mazarin
Arathorn
Snaproll
JMB

So what I'm thinking now is this. Two games, not on the same maps, so we can all read both threads and see how it plays out in different situations. One Deity game on pangaea/30%, which will make for a faster, more intense game. One Emperor game on continents/40%, which will be more of a builder/experimental game. Each can run with 4-6 people.

Based on the comments above and the expressed interest, I'll tentatively break the signups down as follows:

Deity game:
T-hawk
Speaker
Reagan
LKendter
JMB (seems to have the most Deity experience of the remaining players besides Arathorn)
(open slot)

Emperor game:
TriviAl
Arathorn
Renata
Mazarin
Snaproll
ChrTh (if you're interested)

If anyone would like to be in the other team from where I've assigned, say so. Arathorn, can I have you captain the Emperor team (I'll set up the map; you'll start the thread and set the roster), or are you a bit too busy?

I'm going to cap signups after/if the last slot (two if not ChrTh) is filled; managing any more will be a bit too confusing for me. I will make the .bix file available, and both of the 4000 BC saves will be available if anyone would like to try it on their own.

Should be an interesting game - it isn't often that we get to completely reevaluate the opening move sequence

Note - edited, I missed JMB the first time around

Hey T-hawk, you forgot me!! I signed up after Mazarin and before Arathorn (not that it matters as there are 2 open spots...) Pls stick me wherever...

JMB

I'm interested in the Emperor's game