How to play as Sweden?

If you did the barb quest, you would get at least friend-status +3 culture anyway, so that's a push. The point was whether the incremental benefit from gifting the GG outweighed the cost of the two policies. It does not -- by a long way.

If you choose to do it anyway, does that mean you've hopelessly screwed up your game? Of course not, but it is not a wise tactic.
 
And I dont see at all why I d want gift a general when warmongering, at least on higher difficulties i d largly prefer its fighting boost to some crappy unneeded military social policies.

Yes, the fighting boost is more valuable than 90 influence with a CS, and no one is suggesting that you gift every single GG. But if you are warmongering most of the game, you will have many several more GG than you can really use.
 
Yes, the fighting boost is more valuable than 90 influence with a CS, and no one is suggesting that you gift every single GG. But if you are warmongering most of the game, you will have many several more GG than you can really use.

The first GG on turn 25 or so isn't necessary and in most cases hampers you with unnecessary unit maintenance.
 
Yeah, some poor people need to overcome their huge egos and accept that there are other, equally correct, viewpoints in this world...

On topic, though, if you end up with a GG early on as Sweden, why not gift it away for culture/happiness/military units (or even faith?)
 
Yeah, some poor people need to overcome their huge egos and accept that there are other, equally correct, viewpoints in this world...

yeah i guess comming up with totaly pointless "arguments" just to disagree is the way to go in this forum?

1+1=2 even when some people dont like that some things are simple
 
yeah i guess comming up with totaly pointless "arguments" just to disagree is the way to go in this forum?

Yep, coming up with totally pointless arguments does seem to be the way to go on this forum, or at least this thread. I suggest you stop doing it and admit that, for once, you're not 100% right.
 
The other thing is, if I was going to fight like that to get more generals and admirals, why wouldn't I take a policy that gives me more of them?

It makes it easier to build units and if I stayed in a perma war with a CS, then I could be earning those points all game long and killing barbs at sea for more culture. But there is a stigma about fighting the AI since they are so bad at it.

Edit: I started a game to try this and I found a CS and stole the worker. I fortified my spear on a hill in the second ring and now I am getting 5 Great General points every turn. Of course I would want to add to this by making attacks against the city. If it was warrior, just imagine the promos it would earn by the time I could upgrade it to a rifle.

And then on turn 58, I got my first General from points. I can get a CS ally or I can steal some land vs a neighbor or I could start a second CS war if there was one close by.

On t76, my archer made level 4 (range) and now I can shoot every turn for continuous points. Half way to second general (204/400).

Then t89 logistic on my archer and with Oracle finished I am 5/6 in Honor. In this example, it was a religious CS that I had and I got a religion out of it.

This very interesting I never play this way.
 
My fastest Deity Diplo win was a Sweden game where I went full Honor and gifted away all my Great Generals. Finished Honor extremely quickly by allying a Cultural CS. I didn't mind missing the combat bonus, as I wasn't really out to "win" wars early anyway. I just provoked my neighbors to DOW me, then sat back and let them walk units into my archers for Gold/XP/Generals.

This was like a T265 win, so I'm no great Deity speed master like some people on here, but it's certainly possible to have a fun and successful game playing this way. It definitely felt like I was doing something powerful.
 
I didn't follow this approach with Sweden, because I wanted to complete tradition ASAP. I recommend aiming for Mauseleum and the Colossus (if you get a coastal start). Once you start spawning great merchants, you can donate them to the CS of your choice. Later in game, I donated GA's to CS' because an alliance for 50 turns (thanks to consulates and patronage) seems better than a Golden Age for 6 turns.

Then again, my victorious Immortal Sweden game did consist of archipelago but I chose shuffle and I wasn't expecting islands at all.
 
I didn't follow this approach with Sweden, because I wanted to complete tradition ASAP. I recommend aiming for Mauseleum and the Colossus (if you get a coastal start). Once you start spawning great merchants, you can donate them to the CS of your choice. Later in game, I donated GA's to CS' because an alliance for 50 turns (thanks to consulates and patronage) seems better than a Golden Age for 6 turns.

Then again, my victorious Immortal Sweden game did consist of archipelago but I chose shuffle and I wasn't expecting islands at all.

So you built wonders off the science track to get GMerchants to gift when you could have simply performed a trade mission with them and gifted 500 of the 600 gold for a 90 point influence with the cs? Don't get me wrong I usually use tradition with Sweden. It's only when I get a bad tundra start that I use honor and then you can usually faith buy your military with holy warriors unless someelse got faith per tundra that happens infrequently.
 
Early in game, the influence from both trade mission and donation was the same. Also, the donation is easier for getting influence over CS' that are further away, although you have to wait 5 turns before they become your ally.
 
I am in the middle of a deity sweeden game. I went full honor to start and have one policy left to finish commerce. I gifted my first GG to a religious citystate, but I still founded the 5th religion! I am the faith leader now, mostly due to letting my Egyptian neighbor wonder whore religious WWs, then taking his cap. I was hoping to go domination, but I've fallen so far behind in tech, I don't know if I stand a chance at beating Washington. I just opened artillery, and he already has a massive wall of great war infantry and is starting to stack bombers! I think my only viable option now is to try for diplo victory, saving my faith to rush a bunch of generals and merchants to gift to all the citystates.
 
I am in the middle of a deity sweeden game. I went full honor to start and have one policy left to finish commerce. I gifted my first GG to a religious citystate, but I still founded the 5th religion! I am the faith leader now, mostly due to letting my Egyptian neighbor wonder whore religious WWs, then taking his cap. I was hoping to go domination, but I've fallen so far behind in tech, I don't know if I stand a chance at beating Washington. I just opened artillery, and he already has a massive wall of great war infantry and is starting to stack bombers! I think my only viable option now is to try for diplo victory, saving my faith to rush a bunch of generals and merchants to gift to all the citystates.

You better get some interceptors, he will B-17 the crap out of you if he is anywhere close.
 
Obvious question but, when 'gifting' great people do you just move the unit over to the CS and use the 'present' button?

Its easier than that, click on CS, click on give gift, gift unit, select Great Person, wait 3 turns to receive bonus.
 
I make no claims to this being optimal, and I do it more for fun than anything.
The way I like to play Sweden is I just sort of watch the world unfold, and intervene militarily whenever I see things getting out of hand.
I befriend as many Civs which are going for peaceful objectives as I feel I can get away with. I wait for (or gently encourage) warmongers to start warmongering, then I declare war and liberate some cities and city states.

It allows you to play at war while not taking on the burden of actually capturing and maintaining cities. It's a good way of playing a peaceful style game with some incentivized action to spice it up.
Admittedly I've only ever won a game once doing this (immortal 13 civ), but it's a lot of fun, non-the-less.

been there, tried, been anoyed to do something useless.

Now why would I advice others in a forum to do something anoying and useless?
Espacially in the strategy section of the forum.

"Fun is subjective, and whatever you think is fun." aside...

Possibly it's because playing sub-optimally is a fact of life and conducive to fun if you embrace it. It is arguably the definition of a game, an artificial rule-set self-imposed for the sake of entertainment.
If you go out for a game of golf with your niece, are you going to refuse her a handicap, try your absolute hardest, then rub her face in the sand after the 18th green to really push home how well you played? Would this be satisfying for you? You'd be playing optimally, but I can't think of anything more boring and shameful. How is doing this to, an AI no less, any better?

It sounds to me like you challenge yourself only against absolute standardized values, the only benefit I could see to doing this is to pad your ego or garner recognition against a widely acknowledged watermark. I can't imagine you're as short sited as you claim though, I assume you take on the handicaps above (prince?) without any complaints, so what's your problem with imposing your own? How is it any different? How do you justify those being okay, while any self-imposed handicaps are not?

Many of us use our own rules, relative to our ability or self-imposed standards, in order to best challenge ourselves to adapt to novel circumstances. Because fun is a function of self-improvement and a tenacity of wit, not trouncing an inferior opponent with the rules which make them the most trounced while still making us seem skillful for the trouncing.

There is a joy to be had in knowingly burdening yourself with self imposed restrictions, or a sub-optimal play style; and still succeeding, or just not losing quite so badly, or even just seeing how things play out under such circumstances. That's creating resistance, there's no competition or challenge without resistance.

An interesting example; I have a cousin, he's jacked, huge guy, works out every day, can't even lower his arms for all the muscle. If we're moving furniture, or doing anything practical that requires a degree of physicality, he's utterly useless. His muscles only work under the very specific circumstances his exercise equipment provide. As such, his muscles only exist to boost his ego and make people think he's powerful, when in reality he's weaker than those whom don't go to the gym at all. This is because he does not train himself under a wide enough variety of resistances. He does not seek out new ways to challenge himself. Honing himself only against a single circumstance.
 
How to play as Sweden;

Go Tradition - even if in tundra start. You need all the extra food you can get. Your primary focus as Sweden should be getting and filling as many specialist slots at once for as long as possible. If possible build on rivers so you can build the garden as well.

IF possible tech quickly to mathematics and try and build hanging gardens. This is dependant on difficulty etc.

Pick a partner to be a lifelong enemy with. Isolate him diplomatically and make friends with all his enemies. Each friendship gives you a 10% boost to GP generation.

Farm that enemy for GGs. Gift most GG's to CS (usually Maritime or Cultured) at the beginning for easy allies.

Take Patronage.

Consider taking honor for the GG and the buffs to fighting - but its not a must.

IF you found a religion take papal primacy and spread it to every CS on the map.

GM can be used for normal trade missions if you need the money but the 90 influence you can get by gifting them is greater than the gold required to generally buy that much influence.

Consider setting up some trade routes to Stockholm with food and production from your other cities to keep those slots filled and try your very best to build the Leaning Tower of Pisa. This is a hugely important wonder for Sweden. If you build it you should win the game.
 
Might seem nice, but it actually slows down your progress through Tradition.

Since you will be taking 2 policies in Honor before finishing Tradition, the effective cost of the Honor opener and Warrior Code is the cost of your 7th and 8th policies (your last 2 policies in Tradition), which is (with 2 cities) 390 and 525 culture, respectively, or a total of 915 culture. Gifting a Great General to a cultural CS will earn you 30 turns of 6 culture per turn and 30 more turns of 3 culture per turn, or a total of 270 culture. That means you would need to earn 645 culture from the Honor opener to break even. Each brute killed is 8 culture and each barb archer is 7 culture. Even with raging barbs, you aren't going to kill 43 brutes and archers in the course of 60 or so turns.

Open and finish Tradition, and don't bother with the diversion to Honor, even when playing as Sweden.

But that policy also gives a 50% boost to GG generation. So your natural GG will come faster, as will the second and third one.

Assuming you farm 3 GGs through warfare with let's say 5 units per turn,

So, taking the policy grants you 200 GPP for the first general. You need 400 for the second one, 800 for the third one and 1600 for the fourth one (regularly)

Getting the policy shaves of 1400 GG points required. 5 units, generating 2 points per turn equals 10 points per turn. In other words, you shave off 140 turns of GG generation. This increases the more GGs you get.

So early on it might not make sense, but I think it will even out around turn 200. And since we are not going for a super fast science win (else we would be playing Babs) that actually matters. Plus, those extra GGs can be used towards more than extra culture. In essence, one would be using the 500 culture "lost" from Honor to purchase things like empire wide growth, happiness, faith or some crazy good UUs.
 
But that policy also gives a 50% boost to GG generation. So your natural GG will come faster, as will the second and third one.

Assuming you farm 3 GGs through warfare with let's say 5 units per turn,

So, taking the policy grants you 200 GPP for the first general. You need 400 for the second one, 800 for the third one and 1600 for the fourth one (regularly)

Getting the policy shaves of 1400 GG points required. 5 units, generating 2 points per turn equals 10 points per turn. In other words, you shave off 140 turns of GG generation. This increases the more GGs you get.

So early on it might not make sense, but I think it will even out around turn 200. And since we are not going for a super fast science win (else we would be playing Babs) that actually matters. Plus, those extra GGs can be used towards more than extra culture. In essence, one would be using the 500 culture "lost" from Honor to purchase things like empire wide growth, happiness, faith or some crazy good UUs.

Not to mention that it is quite easy to get influence with more than one city state with a single action. Sometimes city states want a luxury that another city state has, or you get culture or faith from your CS that counts towards quests.
 
Great Musicians might also be worth gifting as well. They're not particularly valuable in a tech game. Of course, then you need to build the guild as well, and that might not always be viable.
 
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