The 10 social policies

Krikkitone said:

And what Benefit from Slavery does our society NOT currently have... please let me know how the US would be better (in gameplay terms) by bringing Slavery back.

Change the name to Forced Labor... and we Still have it... If the government wanted something done... Conscription+ make the soldiers do it. (or inspire them to do it for the National good... they'll be even Better than slaves)

People still have bosses that tell them what to do, and they will suffer if they don't...That 'Aspect' of slavery is still with us (Organized Labor... or better yet "Human Capital"), we have advanced and added additional things on Top of that though.

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what you're describing is at most indentured servitude, not slavery.

I see... you (arihman) just ignore stuff you don't like and pick stuff to comment on that fits you, bend other's words to what fits you and deny stuff by carefully saying something like "I never said exactly that in particular" etc. Always a good tactic.

Anyway regarding the social policies I'll just wait for the game to come out and see...

EDIT: Forget about that post above arihman! Goddamn it seems I was right!!! I was right!!! It will be exactly like I expected, like I explained: Several trees with branches and some of them mutually exclusive!!!!!! It seems you won't be able to go down any tree/branch, you can't have freedom branch at the same time as autocracy etc. You have to chose which way you go!!!
We can all stop fighting now!!

Someone posted a video on Youtube with some gameplay footage that apparently is shot with a hand held camera. However, it does contain about half a minute of talk about the social policies. Unfortunately the quality of the footage is lousy in that it's hard to actually read it, but it does show some of the structure of the policies. There is about a minute and a half starting at approx 8:10 into the movie all the way to the end.

I see... you (arihman) just ignore stuff you don't like and pick stuff to comment on that fits you,

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You're complaining that I *ignored* stuff? Look at my post length, its like three pages long!

deny stuff by carefully

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Uhh, yeah, I deny saying things I never said - I never claimed that every Civ4 civic was logically contradictory with every other civic in the same category.

Why should I have to defend an argument I never made?

Anyway, it seems like the worst contradictions won't be possible, because it seems like some trees block others. So, as I've already done in other threads, I withdraw my complaint.

As I said forget it, I'm not a person who likes to argue, you can have the last word. Anyway, no mention that I was indeed right? Ah well expected...

SickFak said:

Isn't that what I meant?

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Yes, it was just an example because alot of people don't understand that it's possible. (not meant to insult anyones intelligence, just to clear stuff up)

I expect Policies to work exactly like Unit Experience levels, unlocking benefits that are completely stackable, and that work in conjunction with Technological Advances.

Like Unit Experience, I anticipate the need for a choice between basic bonuses (like Combat I) or higher bonuses that apply to a more specific areas (like Woodsman I).

For instance, if one were to pursue the culture Policy, at the first level one might have the choice between a 10% increase to all culture or a 25% reduction in cost for new territory.

If one is going to be expansive, it might be very important to choose the later, because the next level down that track might confer some sort of assimilation bonus for conquered territory, the ability to flip cities, and/or the ability to install Puppet Governments.

I wish to further refine my "example" to highlight why I feel stackable bonuses are a bad idea as regards Social Policies.
So again say that you're at tier #3 of 1 social policy branch, & it gives you +25% gold in your cities. Tier # 4 gives you +25% production, wheras a tier of another branch of the tree gives you +3 hammers from specialists. Now the player *really* doesn't want to lose that gold bonus, but +3 hammers/specialist won't give him/her the same benefit as a flat +25% production bonus. Now with stackable bonuses, it won't matter-buy tier #4 & you get the best of both worlds. If you lose the +25% gold bonus, then suddenly the +3 hammers/specialist becomes more attractive, for now, especially if that tier is currently cheaper than the Tier #4 option. Picking the tier of the other branch might then encourage the player to start pursuing a specialist economy, because-until he loses that bonus-that is his best option.
You see, tough decisions don't necessarily make the game more difficult-they can actually make the game more INTERESTING! I've yet to see how a system of stackable bonuses will make the game more interesting, though I can see how it will make the game easier (but not in a GOOD way).
Personally, I wish they *had* gone the way of EU or HoI in terms of Social Policies-that system was actually the thing I liked about both of these game series!

Aussie.

Aussie_Lurker said:

, but +3 hammers/specialist won't give him/her the same benefit as a flat +25% production bonus. .

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Aussie, if the Bonuses are stackable they will be balanced Based on that... if a Flat 25% bonus would almost always be better than +3 hammers per specalist...then

The 'Flat' bonus gets decreased to 15%
The culture cost of 'Flat' is increased

The 'specialist' bonus is increased to 5 /specialists (so that it is better when you are specialist heavy)
OR
THe culture cost of 'specialist' bonus is decreased

So that they are balanced and now it it a decision.

From the screen shot it looks like social polices can lock each other out, as you can see some of the unused trees are lit up but two of them are darkened.

Yeah.

I guess the fourth tree is Piety, I don't really know what that is, but could it have something to do with religion, as I see a Christian cross. But what is the strange wheel then (I don't know the English word for it, in Dutch it is tandwiel, literally translated it would be toothwheel)?

The second tree is Liberty I guess, which probably has Free Market (those coins). Although what could that scepter icon be then? And those 3 connected dots, perhaps they are something like corporations or pacts or trade or whatever.

The last one is Commerce I guess, with something like that toothwheel P), and a big bag of coins or something?

Perhpas the first is Rationalism? What does that exactly mean, and how would a hammer or production fit in?

The middle one in the lowest section is probably Freedom, with a guy holding the constitution?

The rest I really can't see, but how can there be an order policy when all the words are too long? Perhpas the top middle one, as it seems very vague, but...And following that, the first one in the lower section would be Patronage, since that is also a short word, but it doesn't look like it.

The order is:

Tradition Liberty Honor Piety Patronage

Order Autocracy Freedom Rationalism Commerce

How can honor be the middle one of the top section? The word is too short in my opinion. But the rest appears to be correct, so...

Really nice picture Mercade, too bad its so bad quality. But I am very thankful that it pretty much ends the speculation going on in this thread so far. From the highlight of the symbols. Maybe it works similar to the tech-tree: gold meens activated, blue "activatable" and black, empty ones need more predecessors.

Strange is, that some of the social politics areas are completely black. Maybe Me,myself,and,I is correct, and it is locked because of the activation of other trees. Maybe just the correct tech is missing to unlock it like in the 4 politics that contain a picture and a (i suspect) unlock-button.

Silverdawn, since you have seen the presentation your self, I guess thats the picture you have seen as well. However, the length of the words dont really match. Are there sure they are correct? Maybe there were more words written?

Top Row of Piety looks like the Star of David to me-& next to it is the Christian Cross. Very curious!

Another thing is that it *really* looks like some of those are completely blank-not simply locked, so this leads me to believe that the Social Policies are not entirely complete at this stage!

Aussie.

In one of the interviews Shafer specifically notes that the cross and the star are placeholders.

need my speed said:

I guess the fourth tree is Piety, I don't really know what that is, but could it have something to do with religion, as I see a Christian cross. But what is the strange wheel then (I don't know the English word for it, in Dutch it is tandwiel, literally translated it would be toothwheel)?

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A tandwiel is a gear (wheel) in English. However, the symbol is a 6 pointed star of David for judaism. Piety relates to devotion in general, so I'd say this is the religious "social policy".

Aussie_Lurker said:

Another thing is that it *really* looks like some of those are completely blank-not simply locked, so this leads me to believe that the Social Policies are not entirely complete at this stage!

Aussie.

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Either that, or at the moment in gameplay of the screenshot, the particular trees haven't been unlocked yet by their respective techs. You are probably able to see them when you hover over them, but if you don't, they don't show. If I recall this is similar in Civ4 where you don't see the icons for unlocked civics unless you hover over them.

Aussie_Lurker said:

Top Row of Piety looks like the Star of David to me-& next to it is the Christian Cross. Very curious!

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Shafer is asked about that in a podcast. He says that the icons are just placeholders. Nothing to do with specific religions.