When to bulb GS?

Undefeatable said:

Sorry for spamming posts, but I'll be the one giving advice if this ends well.

Tommynt, if you have the time/patience, can you play the save I attached a few posts back and record yourself doing it? Three-river cap is good enough for a sub-t250 or even t200 sv, and some things are easier demonstrated than said.

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Sub 250 maybe but t200 no way.

Played this map and got a 248 SV but that was kind of disapointing... My main issue was that I missed a couple of good wonders and had atrocious faith per turn. Had a very good game otherwise though... turn 90edu, turn 140 scientific theory and 175 plastics. My cities lacked production though making building parts quite a pain. Maybe Freedom would have been a better idea to rush buy instead.

Acken said:

Played this map and got a 248 SV but that was kind of disapointing... My main issue was that I missed a couple of good wonders and had atrocious faith per turn. Had a very good game otherwise though... turn 90edu, turn 140 scientific theory and 175 plastics. My cities lacked production though making building parts quite a pain. Maybe Freedom would have been a better idea to rush buy instead.

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Can you tell me how to get such a fast sv? I tried everything but could only reach plastics by 205; by the time it was apparent I couldn't do it under 250, I quit. What am I doing wrong based on my situation on turn 190?

Well for one thing all my cities are next to mountains it makes a big difference.

After loading you save:

-You're missing a lot of city states. You got to scout better than that. As a result you have 0 allies, this is bad ! As a result you have 0 culture and are missing Free Thought

-Only 3 cities. You can't compete to a 4 strong cities player with only 3.

-No mountains = lower science

-Maybe try to grab a few good wonders

-Your religion is kind of weak.

Acken said:

Well for one thing all my cities are next to mountains it makes a big difference.

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Can you post a vid? If not that, then at least some screenshots and a save every 50 turns. Also, I just learned about the pledge to protect/consulates trick - has not knowing that been severely holding me back?

in many cases good time to bulb is when you want to get crit tech for your plan. For example, you want to war with cannons. If you build treb, get some money, bulb (chemistry?) and upgrade you treb you can get strong army way ahead of ai and attack. With out bulbing you might get this army 10-15 turns later then with.

Undefeatable said:

Can you post a vid? If not that, then at least some screenshots and a save every 50 turns. Also, I just learned about the pledge to protect/consulates trick - has not knowing that been severely holding me back?

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I can't do those. No I didn't use consulate this game. Protect + Consulate gives you 25 influence by the way not enough to be friends it was nerfed in the last patch.

I pretty much always bulb my GS- I'm gonna be trying to get those techs anyhow, and given that tech growth is (or should be) geometric, even a small early bonus counts or a lot. In G&K, (afaik) it just gives you a multiplier of your tech production, so no reason not to, although I still try to shoot for a spendy tech. I also push all my cities into hyper-science mode (specialists etc, even at the expense of starvation) before doing it, because like I said - its a multiplier of current science production.

The exception is, if I have a city w/ national college & / or observatory early in game (pre-industruial) , I'll plant them. Usually that is also a city with a lot of trading post jungle tiles & a university, maybe some undeveloped banana resources, dedicated almost entirely to science and population growth.

A general rule I've heard many times before is to settle your GS before Plastics and bulb them after, but it seems opinions vary nowadays. When trying to grab a tech quick for whatever reason, you can always bulb them before Plastics too of course.

That is way too late, you trade thousands of science for only a few science per turn!

Depending on circumstances, build an academy very early on only. If you don't expect many research agreements, and you want a fast finish, don't build an academy at all unless perhaps if you're Babylon or Korea.