Air & Water Pollution

Hydromancerx said:
1. That's a good point. However I am not sure how you can "trap" the spread of pollution.

2. Again I am not sure how to spread or stop pollution only generate or degenerate.

3. Well at the moment there are 3 levels of Global Warming pollution. However thy just act like crimes in that they are buildings. I would like to link them to events so they will actually effect your map. As on now they just are localized in the polluted city.
Click to expand...

1 and 2. I thought AIAndy said you could have negative spread. Would that not cause a "stop" of the property spread? He would know the answer better than I would though.

3. Oh that seems good for now. We should also then have the options in the TH era to put up solar shades and/or solar foci, in order to try to purposfully warm or cool a planet (this ties into the Mars terraforming, but that's an entirely different discussion.)
 
So I am testing out the terrain features ...

Reduces Air Pollution
- Forest (-5)
- Bamboo (-3)
- Savanna (-4)
- Tall Grass (-2)
- Cactus (-1)
- Kelp (-5)

Reduces Water Pollution
- Jungle (-5)
- Bog (-5)
- Swamp (-5)
- Flood Plains (-5)
- Coral (-5)

Increases Air Pollution
- Active Volcano (+10)
- Dormant Volcano (+5)

Increased Water Pollution
- Tarpits (+5)
 
ls612 said:
1 and 2. I thought AIAndy said you could have negative spread. Would that not cause a "stop" of the property spread? He would know the answer better than I would though.
Click to expand...
You can have terrain dependent spreading behavior by moving the respective propagators from the property info to the terrain info. Then each terrain type can diffuse air pollution more or less (not sure though if all peaks are set properly to terrain type peak).

For proper water pollution spreading the concept of downriver would be needed which is not yet in.
 
AIAndy said:
You can have terrain dependent spreading behavior by moving the respective propagators from the property info to the terrain info. Then each terrain type can diffuse air pollution more or less (not sure though if all peaks are set properly to terrain type peak).

For proper water pollution spreading the concept of downriver would be needed which is not yet in.
Click to expand...

I think that the peaks are acutal terrain, at least as far as promotions are concerned. I don't know how far that extends though.
 
Hydro, take a second look at your free water pollution buildings. They use air pollution, not water.
 
To make water pollution somewhat different I would suggest having the diffusion propagators only active on water plots (rivers, lakes, ocean) or at least have only a weak diffusion on non water plots. Ideally you would only diffuse it downriver but that is not possible at the moment.

To implement that you can use the Active tag on the diffusion property propagators:
Code: 
<Active>
  <Is>TAG_WATER</Is>
</Active>
 
In the property infos XML you have this:
Code: 
        		<PropertyPropagator>
          			<PropertyPropagatorType>PROPERTYPROPAGATOR_DIFFUSE</PropertyPropagatorType>
          			<PropertyType>PROPERTY_WATER_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
          			<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</GameObjectType>
          			<TargetObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</TargetObjectType>
          			<TargetRelationType>RELATION_NEAR</TargetRelationType>
          			<iTargetDistance>1</iTargetDistance>
          			<iPercent>4</iPercent>
        		</PropertyPropagator>
This diffuses the water pollution between plots that are adjacent to each other. Currently it is active everywhere so water pollution will also diffuse deep into deserts for instance.
If you add the Active tag, you can control where that diffusion should be applied with a boolean expression. Adding the Active tag I suggested earlier will result in this:
Code: 
        		<PropertyPropagator>
          			<PropertyPropagatorType>PROPERTYPROPAGATOR_DIFFUSE</PropertyPropagatorType>
          			<PropertyType>PROPERTY_WATER_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
          			<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</GameObjectType>
          			<TargetObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</TargetObjectType>
          			<TargetRelationType>RELATION_NEAR</TargetRelationType>
          			<iTargetDistance>1</iTargetDistance>
          			<iPercent>4</iPercent>
          			<Active>
          			  <Is>TAG_WATER</Is>
                                </Active>
        		</PropertyPropagator>
Now water pollution will only diffuse from plots that are either river or ocean (that is where TAG_WATER is considered true). It will still diffuse to plots that are next to river or ocean plots but not further from there.

You could of course also extend that and, e.g., consider that farms spread water pollution with irrigation. So if a plot has a farm improvement, it should diffuse the water pollution even if it is not next to a river:
Code: 
        		<PropertyPropagator>
          			<PropertyPropagatorType>PROPERTYPROPAGATOR_DIFFUSE</PropertyPropagatorType>
          			<PropertyType>PROPERTY_WATER_POLLUTION</PropertyType>
          			<GameObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</GameObjectType>
          			<TargetObjectType>GAMEOBJECT_PLOT</TargetObjectType>
          			<TargetRelationType>RELATION_NEAR</TargetRelationType>
          			<iTargetDistance>1</iTargetDistance>
          			<iPercent>4</iPercent>
          			<Active>
          			  <Or>
          			    <Is>TAG_WATER</Is>
          			    <Has>
          			      <GOMType>GOM_IMPROVEMENT</GOMType>
          			      <ID>IMPROVEMENT_FARM</ID>
          			    </Has>
          			  </Or>
                                </Active>
        		</PropertyPropagator>
 
I have changed water pollution diffusion now but slightly different than in the previous post.
Water pollution diffuses now to river, ocean, farm and city plots but will not diffuse in the other direction (except from a city to its directly surrounding plots).

I have also added peaks as a diffusion barrier for air pollution.
 
AIAndy said:
I have changed water pollution diffusion now but slightly different than in the previous post.
Water pollution diffuses now to river, ocean, farm and city plots but will not diffuse in the other direction (except from a city to its directly surrounding plots).

I have also added peaks as a diffusion barrier for air pollution.
Click to expand...

Will diffusion to ocean cause it to process the entire ocean? If so can we make it coast?
 
Hydromancerx said:
@AIAndy

Could you apply your new stuff to the terrain? Please?
Click to expand...
What do you mean? Which stuff are you talking about and what terrain?

@Koshling: It does currently process the ocean (which it also did before, just less of the land now). Active only on the coastal terrain would be possible.

EDIT: Plot diffusion for both air pollution and water pollution is now inactive on ocean terrains.
 
AIAndy said:
What do you mean? Which stuff are you talking about and what terrain?

@Koshling: It does currently process the ocean (which it also did before, just less of the land now). Active only on the coastal terrain would be possible.

EDIT: Plot diffusion for both air pollution and water pollution is now inactive on ocean terrains.
Click to expand...

Cool, this will help early turn times somewhat.
 
after completing a game in middle modern age, i am really impressed of the pollution system. for the first time in civilisation, i don't cut down every jungle ore remove every swamp. natural preservetaion really makes sense now. wery good job.

but something buggs me. even if i run green ore green agriculture, it has no influence at all at air ore water pollution. i mean for crime ore fire we have ordonances like smoke detector that reduce these properties in every citie in exanche of higher upkeep. why dont we do the same with pollution. for example exhaust gas filters for cars and factories ore carbon dioxide trade. maybe even modern technologies could reduce pollutions from factories.

the national park (national wonder ) i mean not the state park should reduce pollution too.
 
Kreatur said:
after completing a game in middle modern age, i am really impressed of the pollution system. for the first time in civilisation, i don't cut down every jungle ore remove every swamp. natural preservetaion really makes sense now. wery good job.

but something buggs me. even if i run green ore green agriculture, it has no influence at all at air ore water pollution. i mean for crime ore fire we have ordonances like smoke detector that reduce these properties in every citie in exanche of higher upkeep. why dont we do the same with pollution. for example exhaust gas filters for cars and factories ore carbon dioxide trade. maybe even modern technologies could reduce pollutions from factories.

the national park (national wonder ) i mean not the state park should reduce pollution too.
Click to expand...
...i can understand everything but the final sentence. May you please clean up the grammar and spelling in your post. no offense intended, but it would really make it easier on people who might have issues understanding through those mistakes in spelling and grammar.
 
@Kreatur

Those are some great ideas. The short answer is that we just have not done much in balancing out and filling out past the Industrial Era. There is just so much I want to do for Industrial Era and beyond. In short its not that we don't want to do those things, its we just have not done it yet. And like it or not since most people start in the Prehistoric Era, the early eras get more polished. However even there we still have some empty techs in the early eras too.
 
Need some balance...
Just an example : Landfill.
Before moderne era, The health bonus is less than all the pollution boost, so you will gain at least as unhealth because of pollution as you gain health (and you will lose money)
 
ls612 said:
@Hydro: A few quick questions/ideas on the new Pollution properties.

1. How about Peaks to a large degree and hills to a much smaller degree limit the spread of Air Pollution. Mountains and high hills can form good barriers to airflow, this causing them to block the spread of pollutants in the air.

2. Would it be possible to have Water Pollution spread along rivers? I don't know if AIAndy implemented that capability to the Extended Property System, but if not it would be nice if that could be done.

3. How do you intend more specifically to do Global Warming? I know a little bit about the science, and know that it is influenced by pollution in the air, but also by many other things, including the solar output and the amount of land under cultivation. I think it would be bad to tie Warming/Cooling to only one factor, especially considering that eventually you will be able to to intentional terraforming.
Click to expand...

Neat fact: There's actually new hard evidence that 99% of global warming is due to the sun's unnatural high activity. This hotter activity in turn causes the oceans to release unprecedented amounts of CO2 and feeds the surveys the 'pollution' that they're looking for. The graphs of the sun's activity parallel the Earth's average temperature and the 'pollution' amounts. In the past year however, the sun has been calming down and the CO2 levels are expected to decrease over the next couple decades. Of course this has been rejected by many politicians since, well, since when do they understand anything that has nothing to do with their popularity?:lol:
 
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