New Game Speeds

BlueGenie said:

Though if Forts give that much culture that they can take over a plot right next to a culture focused city then they are overpowered in Culture gain.

Cheers

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If this is the case then it can be fixed. Joe only reported it a few days ago. Changing how much culture a fort starts with is trivial. It does need to start with the 9 plots but they should be taken back straight away if any other nation has more culture on those plots than is being given by the Super Fort code. It should be acting just like it does in normal BtS in that respect. The differences in Super Forts is that the fort gains culture 1pt per turn if garrisoned and will upgrade if you have the tech and garrison it long enough.

Currently the XML is giving 10 of the building nation's culture to all 9 plots, if the fort is in neutral territory or inside the nation's border. It is also giving 10 points of the nation that captures the fort.

We can go as low as 1. How are pallisades doing? They are very similar to forts but only get 5 culture?

I have yet to have a palisade expand it's cultural foot print.

I did have a Fortified Cave (which acted like a Fort with 9 tiles when built) finally loose a tile it took from a city it was close to. Have not seen an actual Fort loose a tile yet.

If a fort that is manned gets 1 CPt/turn, perhaps a Fort should only start with 5?

JosEPh

I promised this much earlier but unfortunately I had much less time to play than I expected. Sorry for that!

So it is the sequel of the game which I wrote of in post #84. It is still SVN9265.

I discovered Classical Lifestyle in turn 886 / 1084BC. The challenge was to do it in 387 turns after Sedentary. I was able to do it in 298 turns. I researched every ancient tech.

I've got 5 techs by trading and one for free by building the Oracle. In about 70 percent of the cases tech diffusion helped. My biggest rivals are still ahead of me in science. In 3100 BC I was able to get rid of the Cruel trait. Hunting didn't help too much because there was much less prey than in the prehistoric era. Also for a while the city which is nearest to the hunting grounds was insulated from my main country by a Byzantine city and it doesn't have caves.

As I wrote in the previous post I decided to attack the Byzantine empire. I built a strong army and in 2447BC I declared war against them. I captured the last of their cities in 1620BC. I kept the first 3 cities I captured and burned down the rest.

Currently I have 12 cities. My economy is strong. I have 4749 gold and my balance is +254 gold / turn. After the war I kept my army and continued to build more military units to prepare for a war against the Vikings. I think I would be ready in 50 more turns.

I won't continue this game. As it seems the snail speed is a little slow for me at the moment. I like to play on this speed but the lack of time isn't help.

Thanks for the report Usul13.

DH wrote:Currently the XML is giving 10 of the building nation's culture to all 9 plots, if the fort is in neutral territory or inside the nation's border. It is also giving 10 points of the nation that captures the fort.

We can go as low as 1. How are pallisades doing? They are very similar to forts but only get 5 culture?

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Current game Dutch built a palisade right next to my western most city's cultural footprint. I used a Neanderthal warrior (gotten from a captured neander) to take the palisade. Of course it did not revert. So next turn I pillaged the palisade. Again it did not revert because it was a Neander that was holding it. I removed the neander to go work elsewhere. During the next 25+ turns I built a palisade to it's south, a fortified Cave to it's west and another palisade to its North, all manned by regular Mil units. This Dutch tile for 20 of those turns sat at 93% dutch. Finally after turn 24 it went down to 67% Dutch (the rest Iroquois and Barb). So I sent the neander back in to see what would happen. Within 3 turns it flipped to my culture.

JosEPh

Snail speed test at SVN 9269, Monarch difficulty, Perfect Mongoose standard map size with low sea levels, 4 AI civilizations, no leader traits, tech diffusion on, tech brokering off. Nothing really new or strange in the results; basically just reporting as another confirmation (and thank you) to Joseph for his game speed changes.

Reached Tribalism at turn 343 (21,188BC) and Sedentary Lifestyle at turn 378 (18,248 BC), before any AI.

Could have rushed to Classical Lifestyle by turn 795 (before any AI), but went back to catch up on bypassed optional technologies (to be more consistent with Usil13's testing above). Finally completed Classical Lifestyle at turn 832 (1807 BC), after 3 of the 4 AIs (which by then were 4 to 6 technologies into Classical) and just before the other 1 AI (which was ready to start Classical Lifestyle).

I skipped all religions except Tengriism and Judaism, and 3 of the dead-end technologies (Candle Making, Mummification, and the strangely-placed Cryptography). The AIs were all very competitive in gaining technology, probably due to Tech Diffusion.

@SirJohnEh,
And Thank You for being a valuable and faithful tester. Very happy to see the Classical date range you are reporting for Snail, Monarch, and Standard map size.

JosEPh

In the game from #134 I have now reached Feudalism, entering the Medieval Age (SVN 9271 without REV). The data:

2796 BC, Round 344, 14 cities (5 conquered), founded Shamanism, Andeanism, Judaism and conquered Mesopotamism Holy City (all Religions not founded are not researched, all other pre-Medieval techs are researched). 79482 (+ 412 / turn), 6773 / turn, 1053 points.

Not that I really care about eternity and eon speed, that's far slow for my taste, but the difference between 7000 turns and 8000 turns seem to be that there are two speeds that are practically the same. And nobody who thinks 5000 turns is too fast for their liking is going to go for 7000 turns if they can go for 8000 turns instead which makes the eon speed redundant. Why not save yourself some trouble and get rid of the eon speed alltogether?

It was easier to "fix" Eon than it is to remove it or Any game speed for that matter. Instead of basically working with 1 file I would've had to work with a 1/2 dozen or better. More chance for mistakes too.

I suppose I should've stayed with the scale and made Eternity 9000 turns. But then getting research, plot improvement time, unit build time, etc., etc., would have been more laborious.

And 1000 turn difference is really "not the same".

JosEPh

Since there's no support with Eon and Eternity anyway why not set Eternity to 12k+ and Eon to 8k+, so those that LIKE to play longer games are able to?
I am doing an Eternity game now, and it's not at all as fun as it used to be for me as I enjoy the longer times to use things before they obsolete.

Like the +food buildings that go obsolete by Agriculture I don't even bother building in new cities after I've got Tribalism now because they will just go obsolete way too fast.
And holding off with training units because "it's just around the corner" to a better one anyway, or more experience on it from a building that will come shortly.

Researching Agriculture shouldn't take 8 turns in an Eternity game in my opinion and frankly I don't see why the changes to Eon and Eternity were even made as they'll not be supported anyway.

And, yes Joseph, for me a difference of 1000 between 7000 and 8000 is basically the same, 12.5%'s difference only. Take any tech taking less than 7 turns and it will still take 7, maybe 8, turns instead. Take a tech taking 12 turns (if there are indeed any later on in the game, I know there can be a few in the early game depending on how you traverse the tree) and it will take 13 turns instead, and only on reaching 16 turns will it jump to 18 turns instead.

Cheers

BlueGenie said:

Since there's no support with Eon and Eternity anyway why not set Eternity to 12k+ and Eon to 8k+, so those that LIKE to play longer games are able to?
I am doing an Eternity game now, and it's not at all as fun as it used to be for me as I enjoy the longer times to use things before they obsolete.

Like the +food buildings that go obsolete by Agriculture I don't even bother building in new cities after I've got Tribalism now because they will just go obsolete way too fast.
And holding off with training units because "it's just around the corner" to a better one anyway, or more experience on it from a building that will come shortly.

Researching Agriculture shouldn't take 8 turns in an Eternity game in my opinion and frankly I don't see why the changes to Eon and Eternity were even made as they'll not be supported anyway.

And, yes Joseph, for me a difference of 1000 between 7000 and 8000 is basically the same, 12.5%'s difference only. Take any tech taking less than 7 turns and it will still take 7, maybe 8, turns instead. Take a tech taking 12 turns (if there are indeed any later on in the game, I know there can be a few in the early game depending on how you traverse the tree) and it will take 13 turns instead, and only on reaching 16 turns will it jump to 18 turns instead.

Cheers

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I am playing on Eternity but have just adjusted the tech and build times myself . Its working fine so far except I don't get any anarchy for Civics changes

I can do that if I can have a "My_Mods" file to have it done easily every time I update from SVN but it will throw the dates completely on their heads, I'd need to have those set in a My_Mods file too.
I am not sure those take though, or if they use the original anyway, if I make an own game speed info file with only Eternity in it in My_Mods.

Cheers

BlueGenie said:

I can do that if I can have a "My_Mods" file to have it done easily every time I update from SVN but it will throw the dates completely on their heads, I'd need to have those set in a My_Mods file too.
I am not sure those take though, or if they use the original anyway, if I make an own game speed info file with only Eternity in it in My_Mods.

Cheers

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The SVN is updated so irregularly now it doesn't worry me.

Can you not just save your edited GameSpeed File and paste it back in every time?

The dates don't bother me in the slightest

BlueGenie said:

Since there's no support with Eon and Eternity anyway why not set Eternity to 12k+ and Eon to 8k+, so those that LIKE to play longer games are able to?
I am doing an Eternity game now, and it's not at all as fun as it used to be for me as I enjoy the longer times to use things before they obsolete.

Like the +food buildings that go obsolete by Agriculture I don't even bother building in new cities after I've got Tribalism now because they will just go obsolete way too fast.
And holding off with training units because "it's just around the corner" to a better one anyway, or more experience on it from a building that will come shortly.

Researching Agriculture shouldn't take 8 turns in an Eternity game in my opinion and frankly I don't see why the changes to Eon and Eternity were even made as they'll not be supported anyway.

And, yes Joseph, for me a difference of 1000 between 7000 and 8000 is basically the same, 12.5%'s difference only. Take any tech taking less than 7 turns and it will still take 7, maybe 8, turns instead. Take a tech taking 12 turns (if there are indeed any later on in the game, I know there can be a few in the early game depending on how you traverse the tree) and it will take 13 turns instead, and only on reaching 16 turns will it jump to 18 turns instead.

Cheers

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There will always be someone in dissent for every change. Oh and by the way it was SO that stated we would not support the Old Eternity. He is fine with the new set.

Sorry squeaky wheel, no grease for you on this subject.

JosEPh

MacCoise said:

<snip>
The dates don't bother me in the slightest

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The Dates are benchmarks for the research rate. There will be another adjustment before it's all said and "done".

@BG,
I understand you're still "grinding the axe" with me. That's okay. Peace.

JosEPh

Nah, it's ok Joseph. Just that if it's not supported I don't see why you'd be changing them as well.
I've checked and I could put a GameSpeedInfo file in My_Mods with just an own version of Eternity in it, so I did, and changed the date set too.

Cheers

BlueGenie said:

Nah, it's ok Joseph. Just that if it's not supported I don't see why you'd be changing them as well.
I've checked and I could put a GameSpeedInfo file in My_Mods with just an own version of Eternity in it, so I did, and changed the date set too.

Cheers

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To quote myself;

Oh and by the way it was SO that stated we would not support the "Old Eternity". He is fine with the new set

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.

JosEPh

*grin* SO might be, but it still doesn't mean I understand why something not supported was changed, whomever decided to do so.

Cheers

BlueGenie said:

Nah, it's ok Joseph. Just that if it's not supported I don't see why you'd be changing them as well.
I've checked and I could put a GameSpeedInfo file in My_Mods with just an own version of Eternity in it, so I did, and changed the date set too.

Cheers

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Am I going to cause myself problems by not adjusting the date setr?

MacCoise said:

Am I going to cause myself problems by not adjusting the date setr?

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Nope. Animals may go extinct earlier than you'd like though.

Just adjust it so that the first 50000 years take the amount of turns you'd think would fit your settings and it should work out fine.
The Excel sheet attached to "this post" might help you understand how to adjust dates correctly.