Civilization III Advanced Tips

Hello everyone. I just joined civfanatics recently and just got around to posting. I have been playing Civilization 3 since 2012. After I read these posts, I realized that most people play on regent through demigod! I'm still stuck on chieftain-warlord. Does anyone have any tips for me? I am reading the "Post Short Single Player Tips", and most of it I already know. I play on Civilization Complete.

Don't think you havent learned enough to move up the difficulty or its too hard on the next difficulty. Sometimes it does takes years to be comfortable to move up. I was on Chieftain-Warlord for many years, and I decided to just move up suddenly, and I found Regent wasnt that hard. That doesnt mean you need to know everything about civ3 in order to move up. I learned much just moving up a difficulty, and also by playing MP with veteran MP players. I soon found I knew so little about certain mechanics when playing MP and also, I had to improve my speed of expansion and other gameplay movements.

Kurgan 117

I advise you to read and engage here as much as you can. There are some great experts here who are willing to impart their knowledge. Maybe use this thread for some specific questions that are bothering you. But read and engage and you will learn.

Hi Kurgan & welcome!

The primary stumbling block to getting past Warlord is your Government type. Once you've figured out how to maximise getting to a better government type then you're good to go for Regent to Emperor levels. Everything else is secondary minor micromanagement bits and pieces.

For learning this, start with a Civ that has Alphabet as its first tech, such as Greece, then just learn the following Technologies:

Writing -> Code of Laws -> Philosophy

You'll likely be first to Philosophy and this will give you a free Technology to which you immediately select Republic, have a revolution and suddenly you're more efficient than everyone else. Combine this with making sure as many of your tiles are Roaded as possible and having a good many Towns with lots of Workers and that's your basic framework for speeding up the learning curve exponentially.

Use the Luxury slider instead of Happy Faces and make sure you start the game near some Fresh Water so you get extra Gold and don't need to build many Aquaducts. The only drawback to Republic is that it can be quite difficult to produce lots of armies in the short-term, but if you can hold on while you build lots of Roads you'll soon turn it around and have good Military, Technology and Happiness with something like 20%/30% Happiness, 50%/60% Science and 20%/30% Tax.

Also don't forget to reduce your science funding one turn before completing a Technology for a nice windfall of Gold to keep you stable during deficit turns.

Kurgan117 said:

Hello everyone. I just joined civfanatics recently and just got around to posting.

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Welcome!

I have been playing Civilization 3 since 2012. After I read these posts, I realized that most people play on regent through demigod! I'm still stuck on chieftain-warlord. Does anyone have any tips for me? I am reading the "Post Short Single Player Tips", and most of it I already know. I play on Civilization Complete.

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I know how you feel. But the first thing to say is, Civ3 is a recreational activity, so you should play at whatever level you are having the most fun at, not whatever level you think you 'should' be playing at (based on what other people are doing). There are no prizes for playing an 'expert' game -- apart from the CFC-HoF and GotM-trophies, anyway!

That said though, the (massive) production-advantages you get at Chieftain/Warlord mean you have no incentive to develop a playstyle that will be successful at higher levels. At Regent, your brain is your only(!) advantage over the AIs, and while that still applies at Monarch+, the AICivs get increasing production-advantages over you, and start with increasing numbers of units. So if you want to improve your game, then don't be afraid to move up a level -- that's really the best way to do it. So what if you lose a couple of games? Hopefully every loss will provide a lesson in how to play better next time...
You don't say where your specific weaknesses are, but some general gameplay hints that helped me at Regent/Monarch:

• Before starting a game, set a goal: pick a Victory-condition to aim for, and choose a Civ and map-settings accordingly. Then plan/ execute the (early) game accordingly
• Concentrate on early expansion -- more towns is better than big towns, at least to start with
  • Expand first towards the AICivs, then fill in the backwaters
  • Overlapping BFCs is OK, especially while towns are still under Pop6: I now tend to place towns at CxxC (corner to corner) to CxxxC (diagonally)
  • Found towns adjacent to freshwater, especially if not AGRI (= no need to spend 100 shields on a 'Duct later)
  • Avoid founding towns 1 tile inland from Coast-tiles; found on the Coast if possible, to allow a Harbour to boost food-production
• Build more offensive military than defensive, whether for Resource-grabs or to discourage AI-aggression
  • For 20 shields, 2 rWarriors looks 'stronger' to the AI than 1 rArcher, which in turn looks stronger than 1 rSpear
  • If/when going to war, attackers should all be vets, but fortified defenders can be regs
  • In the early game, Horses are arguably a more important StratRes than Iron, because 2MP mounted-units can retreat if losing against 1MP foot-units, or after winning against anything (though you'll certainly want both Horses and Iron by the time you enter the Mid-Age)
• Build at least 1 Worker per town (and 2 might be better, if non-IND). Tip: A Pop1 town making +2FPT, 2 SPT will grow in 10T without any micromanagement: it can build a Warrior in 5T, then a Worker in 5T as it reachers Pop2, immediately dropping back to Pop1 -- the new Worker can then improve that town's tiles in time with growth
  • Every worked tile should have a road to boost commerce per turn
  • Grass/ Plains/ Flood-tiles should generally be improved before Hills/ Deserts
  • Marsh/ Jungle/ Mountains (without bonus resources) should generally be left alone until you can assign Worker/Slave-gangs to improving them
• Make contacts as early as possible, and build Embassies (= allows buying alliances if/when attacked)
• Protect trade-rep, especially for non-militaristic games -- avoid 'rep-risky' deals (buying upfront goods using per-turn payments of gold or resources) wherever possible
• While still under Despotism, build max. 1-2 buildings per town, based on location, Civ-traits and end-goal
  • Fewer buildings = more money for SCI%, LUX%, and/or TAX%
  • If not REL, don't build Temples to cure overpopulation-unhappiness, build military (under Despot/Monarchy) or Workers (or Settlers)!
• Get out of Despotism ASAP!
  • Don't be afraid to trade techs to/from the AICivs!
  • Under Conquests, use the Writing -> Col -> Philo -> Republic-slingshot whenever possible -- even if you'd rather run a Monarchy, you can trade those 4 techs for nearly everything else in the Ancient and early Mid-Age

I was already pretty comfortable at Vanilla-Monarch when I bought Conquests. I played a couple of solo-games at Regent, then joined an Emp-level succession game, which really helped improve my skillz. What also helped, especially with town-planning and trading, was to download and install CivAssistII. I am (now) relatively competent/ confident at Emp, and (now) usually play with all-Random settings (apart from map-size). Concentrating on the following helped me at this level:

• Planning (relatively) carefully where each town is going to go, and which tiles it will work (aiming for 24 FPT under Monarchy/Republic, to support a Pop12 city before getting to SteamPower, and Sanitation)
• Micromanaging citizen-assignments in all (core-)towns to minimise shield/food overruns, at least for the first 100-150 turns (by which time I've usually founded/ captured all my 1st- and 2nd-ring towns)
• Paying attention to Worker-jobs, improving tiles in order of immediate usefulness (bearing in mind the Despot-penalty), and ideally co-ordinating job-completion with town-growth
• Using prebuilds extensively, to bank shields for desired improvements/ Wonders, prior to acquiring the needed tech(s)
• Timing a GA to start when it will be more/most useful (for long(er) games, this will often be the beginning of the Mid-Age, when all units/ improvements/ techs suddenly get more expensive, but before your empire and cities are big enough to cope with that increased demand)
• Picking research projects based on the AI's less-preferred paths, and then trading for the 'popular' techs
• Watching out for 'twofer' trades that can give a return greater than the initial investment

FTR, I recently started my first game at DemiGod (progress being documented in the 'pRN-Gods' thread linked in my signature).

tjs282 said:

Welcome!

I know how you feel. But the first thing to say is, Civ3 is a recreational activity, so you should play at whatever level you are having the most fun at, not whatever level you think you 'should' be playing at (based on what other people are doing). There are no prizes for playing an 'expert' game -- apart from the CFC-HoF and GotM-trophies, anyway!

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I want to play at the higher levels, but I get destroyed or, if I am lucky, they are 6-10 techs ahead and twice my size.

What do each of you think is the best government and why?

tjs282 said:

If/when going to war, attackers should all be vets, but fortified defenders can be regs

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I rather disagree here. Regular attackers can be useful to attacked weakened enemies. At defence however you have little control, thus veterans only seems slightly preferable.

Barracks cost 40 shields and give 4 instead of 3 Hitpoints, thus you need to build units worth at least 120 shields after the barracks in order to get the costs back.

tjs282 said:

Get out of Despotism ASAP!

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This is really important. Despotism sucks. The differences between the postdespotic government are far more subtle than the difference between Despotism and a postdespotic government.

tjs282 said:

Timing a GA to start when it will be more/most useful (for long(er) games, this will often be the beginning of the Mid-Age, when all units/ improvements/ techs suddenly get more expensive, but before your empire and cities are big enough to cope with that increased demand)

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I may slightly disgree here. The early medieval age tends to be perfect for GA, but if possible cities should be big already. Both early research and especially early production may be sacrificed in order to get towns to size 12 or at least near size 12. Then the effect of GA can be maximized and this can counter any accumulated backwardness in tech and the lack of buildings such as marketplaces and libraries.

Kurgan117 said:

What do each of you think is the best government and why?

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Most of the time republic is by far the best government. It is early available and you get one additional base commerce for each tile that already produces 1 base commerce. This makes it very lucrative to make towns grow to size 12 very fast. Getting towns to size 12 ASAP cannot be underestimated.

Kurgan117 said:

What do each of you think is the best government and why?

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I generally go from Despot to Republic and then later to Communism. Republic is better than Monarchy because you get more money, even though you have to pay for military upkeep. To make Republic work, build as many cities as possible on rivers and then work the tiles beside the river as these yield extra commerce. With more cash you will research the tech tree faster.

If you find falling behind in the tech race a problem, consider one of the scientific Civs as these have an edge in that department (cheaper libraries and universities and a free tech at the start of each new era). So, Greece or Germany for example, both of which are good.

Communism is great for war but that comes later and it sounds like you need to navigate the ancient era and the middle ages better. For that Republic is best. Try the slingshot (as explained upthread - alphabet, writing, code of laws, philosophy and Republic for free if you are first to philo, then revolt right away into Republic). Monarchy, they say, is for warmongering. It's a matter of taste maybe. I prefer the cash myself.

I usually play at monarch level and pretty much steamroll over other ai-s(i don't like higher difficulties, except maybe emperor at best, because then it's not a civilization building game, but ''how hard can i screw the stupidity of scripted ai-s''), so i think i can give some tips and stuff.
Prepoint - There are many variations of how to play and their efficiencies differ, so bear that in mind.
1. Return of investment. Let's pick from the start. Food is most important thing in the start, next is shield. I don't even care about commerce, but the rule ''worker must not leave the tile until roaded'' still is in effect(also, there are many minor reasons when road is more important to work than mine/irrigation - future settler movement). Don't forget the despotism tile penalty. So, work on stuff which will give you biggest return of investment - granary will give you ''double'' food(depends, tho), but costs 60 shields to complete. Settler costs only 30 shields, but there is population hit of 2. Of course built city will give 2 more food(usually) and 1-2 shields(oh and commerce), so the faster you get cities up, the better. Later, granaries are better investments due to corruption going on in farther cities.
2. Workers - Don't work tiles your citizens won't use for long time. Get them working on tiles where you get immediate profit. Usually, though, people use workers too little.
3. Don't let few cities get too much population - settlers and workers do the job. When you have about 25%(or something) of cities too much population(unhappy citizens), raise the lux rate. Now, there are many exceptions - especially in the start - food and shield is more important than commerce you spend on lux rate.
4. Next governments are better compared to despotism. Others said it and i say it too, again. The biggest difference is in tile penalty - out of despotism, you can start doing ''grassland irrigate, hills mine'' combos.
5. Take your time. Really. I see people just hitting ''next turn'' too fast. Thinking about different strategies for half a hour is not overvalued. Also, make yourself comfortable to numbers till 20(for food) and up(for shields). You get 3 food per turn in a city? That's 21 food for you, so one turn switching to 1 less food, but more shields yields more shields and you lose nothing(do it inbetween, not in the last turn when the city grows, interturn mechanics and stuff). There are just so much stuff i could go on for hours.
6. You wanted advanced tips? Interturn mechanics. I almost consider this as exploit. Just do some searching on that stuff and you will understand. If i go this route, i can do ''4 turn-tech'' almost from the start because of this(okay not the first 30 turns).
7. Forestry - Helps the early granary build-ups(or military). Later it's a constant bonus - plant-clear combo.
8. Food becomes much more important in more corrupted cities. Later in industrial era - irrigate&civil engineers and you turn hopeless city into not-so-hopeless. Also, when having 2 food and 1 shield city(in a corrupted cities, for example), consider making a worker first.
9. Considering you are on easier levels - don't automate your workers. Really, just don't.
10. Chariots/horse riders is better strategic choice than swordsmen. 50/50 usually is best approach. Archers with horse riders will also do. There are players who don't even build swordsmen, but mainly warriors - then later upgrade them to swordsmen.
I can go on.... and on....

P.S. I have alcohol in my body, so maybe everything wasn't clear. Sorry.

I have never had war weariness in republic even though it says that it has it. Why is that?
Is high war weariness a major problem in democracy? I never used feudalism because it looks like it stinks, can anyone confirm or deny? The unit support is interesting.

albatros13 said:

Food is most important thing in the start, next is shield.

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Still it is commerce that limits your research. The better your commerce, the better your research. The better your research, the earlier you can use crucial techs such as the republic for a postdespotic government or construction for aqueducts. There are many other techs that grant significant efficiency gains such as military tradition for cavalry.

Kurgan117 said:

I have never had war weariness in republic even though it says that it has it. Why is that?
Is high war weariness a major problem in democracy?

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Well, in order to "enjoy" war waeriness wars need to wear out. Once your losses amount "sufficiently" war weariness will be a problem. As democracy the effect is twice as bad as in a republic in the first 2 steps of severity, in the third step a democratic government is even overtrown in favour of involuntary anarchy. So that is pretty severe.

The reason you never experienced war waerness is probably that you are underchallenged. Increase the difficulty level and you are more likely to experience military struggles that lead to war weariness.

On a sidenote: When you named this thread "Advanced Tips" i assumed you wanted to switch from Deity to Sid. Until Deity the game is somewhat forgiving, you can make a few errors and still win. It is not impossible to play at Deity ans still avoid war weariness.

For you it is pobably best to try regent first, there neither AI or human enjoys a bonus. From there the steps to monarch and emperor are somewhat mild. The step from emperor to demigod is harsher as there AI will start with 2 settlers, which makes the game much more challenging.

Depending on how cocky you feel you might try emperor directly but document you game and give this fine community the chance to comprehend what you did right and wrong and thus alert you in a timely fashion what you need to do different in order to still win the game. Such a guided learning by doing can be quite effective.

Kurgan117 said:

I never used feudalism because it looks like it stinks, can anyone confirm or deny? The unit support is interesting.

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Basically feudalism is a bad choice. That is not because it is a bad govrment per se, but the combination of the "inverse" unit support and the poprushing lure you into having small cities. C3C however is about having big cities, in the long run every town should be size 13+. Feudalism can lure you into playing bad.

Do villages give anything worthwhile to humans in regent or should I just turn them off?

There are barbarian villages and bonus huts. Taking the earlier gives 25 Gold, entering the later gives something that has quite some value, especially in the medium difficulty settings. Expecially extra settlers and free techs are valueable. At the highest difficulty settings AI will take away most opportunities before you can utilize them, and even if you could take them the expected gain is much smaller. So at Sid and maybe Deity you better turn them off, but below that you have good chances of utilizing them well to your advantage.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93244

First I would like to reiterate the comments about government. Get the HELL out of despotism when you can. Despotism has a penalty to production and economy. Your early options will be Republic and Monarchy and, a little later, Feudalism. My tendency is to go to monarchy and then to communism in the endgame. The best type for you depends on your style but Republic seems to be the most popular.

Another thing is to manage your cities. This is what is meant when players talk of micromanagement. Make sure your cities are doing the best for you. You can assign specific tiles to be worked by the city's people. Also, you can appoint citizens as specialists, but entertainers (sometimes called clowns) are generally avoided. It's usually better to adjust the luxury slider than to make a bazillion entertainers.

Also, manage your wars, especially on the offensive. When attacking a city it is better to attack with several units in one turn that to send them one at a time. Either mix in some artillery-type units (not all artillery though), or send only fast units (I prefer the latter, but again, styles vary). Gather a good strong stack, send them into enemy turf, and just kick some booty.

Lastly, manage your trade, down to the last unit. Trade deals are negotiable; the AI will always leave room for some haggling. Your trade advisor will tell you how the trade partner will react to your counteroffer. Optimising trade will mean that you'll have more left over for yourself for further trading, or for the luxury and science. Resources = survival.

Kurgan117 said:

Do villages give anything worthwhile to humans or should I just turn them off?

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If you mean barbarian villages, yes, they can provide. You may get a tech advance or some cash, or a friendly warrior joining your side. If you're behind in expansion you may get a settler. Not always, though--sometimes the barbs will attack, but the player gets an advantage (in the RNG) versus barbarians, so you'll rarely lose, especially with the huge bonus (800% IIRC) given at Chieftain level.

On a sidenote: When you named this thread "Advanced Tips" i assumed you wanted to switch from Deity to Sid. Until Deity the game is somewhat forgiving, you can make a few errors and still win. It is not impossible to play at Deity ans still avoid war weariness.

For you it is pobably best to try regent first, there neither AI or human enjoys a bonus. From there the steps to monarch and emperor are somewhat mild. The step from emperor to demigod is harsher as there AI will start with 2 settlers, which makes the game much more challenging.

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So at Sid and maybe Deity you better turn them off, but below that you have good chances of utilizing them well to your advantage.

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That's what i'm talking about. At higher levels, the game becomes into ''how can i utilize the bonuses the ai gets?'' instead of civilization building. All those great library techniques, all those trade tricks, no research(it's pretty much a must at higher levels) and so on, which change the gameplay totally, resulting into a different game altogether. Scientific trait becomes totally obsolete at higher levels. Also, all those perfect conditions seen on 'random' maps when people play on demigod/sid...
You know, i could totally just say ''use tsearch and you win all the difficulties''.

albatros13 said:

All those great library techniques, all those trade tricks, no research(it's pretty much a must at higher levels) [...] Scientific trait becomes totally obsolete at higher levels.

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I think you are very wrong on this partial aspect. Sure, there are strategies that develop around the great library or extracting techs from AI by other means. But in my opinion a solid regular research is often superior and almost always preferable. Depending on the chosen settings the game can still be about building up a great civilization at Sid. That might be even more so than at lower settings because research is far more expensive, so the demand for high research output is far greater.

Try playing on a higher level. If/when you feel you are hopelessly behind, upload your save file here and some of us will tell you what's wrong and probably play a few turns and maybe even turn it around.

I haven't played much in the past few years, but my favorite plays were taking someone else's save and seeing if I could fix it or do better.

albatros13 said:

That's what i'm talking about. At higher levels, the game becomes into ''how can i utilize the bonuses the ai gets?'' instead of civilization building. All those great library techniques, all those trade tricks, no research(it's pretty much a must at higher levels) and so on, which change the gameplay totally, resulting into a different game altogether. Scientific trait becomes totally obsolete at higher levels. Also, all those perfect conditions seen on 'random' maps when people play on demigod/sid...
You know, i could totally just say ''use tsearch and you win all the difficulties''.

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Very true, unfortunately. I wish they had made the AI programming much better instead of giving your opponents enormous advantages, like starting with multiple settlers. Imagine 6 galleys with berserkers suddenly coming out of the fog and capturing your capital, or the Zulus making a focused attempt at cutting off your iron supply.

I feel comfortable at emperor level for empire building. With a good start, and joining workers into one city, I can beat the opponents to building a wonder. On demigod that's pretty much impossible, so it becomes a war game. I can sometimes keep up with research on demigod though and hope for a scientific leader, which gives me an orgasm every time.

To TS:

Phase 1 (peaceful expansion): Build as many cities as possible before the AI steal the land. Get a start with food bonuses, or it's gonna take 10 turns for every worker and 20 for every settler.

Phase 2 (less peaceful expansion): When you're surrounded by AI cities, start building a military force and conquer one city at a time. The AI has two defenders per city.

One more thing. People usually say expand towards AI first and only after that build cities in your backyard. I don't exactly agree on that. While in later game phase(starting from medieval) the strategic choices are more important(taking land from AI), the first 2-4 cities should almost all the time follow the rule of return of investment. Of course, food is more important(you can do a lot of stuff with food - rushing, workers('storing' population + developing the land), bigger pop when using lux rate etc). When you have solid core, the military takeover is much easier. You will attack other nations, you will take over lands. The only time expansion towards ai is a bigger priority is when you won't wage war for a long time.