DYP on the MAC

ejday

ejday

King
Joined
Jun 24, 2002
Messages
973
Location
Burbank, CA, USA
Came back to play a little Civ and heard about the DYP. Fantastic work... did the 1.29b2 upgrade, installed the DYP (using the GOTM installer -- worked great once I figured out to drop the whole folder on the window)... and I played a game. New depth brings new life to it.
:D
However...

I have a question for the gurus: The editor, forever locked on 1.21g can make maps usable by 1.29b2. Great. The catch: build a map and try and use it with the DYP and you're SOL. I tried. I was SOL. I would imagine it comes from many necessary resources not being present (graphically would be my guess but I failed at code tinkering).
:confused: SO: any thoughts or ideas on how to tweak the 1.21 folder so you can actually create a map usable by 1.29b2 DYP?
 
I'm not familiar with 'SOL' so I don't know what happens when you try.

My guess would be that you somehow need to create a base BIC file containing all the extra goodies in the 1.29 DyP BIC/scenario file. What we basically require is a 1.29 -> 1.21 BIC converter.
 
Ahah! A technical expression I'm unfamiliar with. It doesn't give one a lot to go on in trying to diagnose the problem. :mischief:
 
Hello, Dojo! Nice to drop by the old haunt...

AlanH, if nothing else, I'm happy to have broadened your linguistic horizons. "SOL" should be filed alphabetically under task-related terms (which would put it just after "RTFM" -- another personal fave).

Just for grins, I tried making a 1.21g folder, then replacing the art folder within with DYP art. Oddly, most of the resources were off alignment a pixel or two (based on the strange "L" shapes I saw cradling them. Hmm...). The editor worked fine, otherwise -- though of course it didn't have all the necessary DYP bells and whistles available.

I also tried bringing in the DYP-modded .bic into the 1.21 folder. That didn't work either. I got as far as the splash screen, then the app itself splashed. I'm wondering now if... if a 1.21g bic was created with the extra map doodads (all the resources), if it would work as strictly a map editor. As long as you didn't mod the civs, if it would make usable worlds (like for making a DYP earth). Thoughts?
 
ejday said:
AlanH, if nothing else, I'm happy to have broadened your linguistic horizons. "SOL" should be filed alphabetically under task-related terms (which would put it just after "RTFM" -- another personal fave).
Click to expand...
... and just before TLA. Thanks for that - always a delight to see how you guys are expanding my mother tongue with such subtle charm :p

Just for grins, I tried making a 1.21g folder, then replacing the art folder within with DYP art. Oddly, most of the resources were off alignment a pixel or two (based on the strange "L" shapes I saw cradling them. Hmm...). The editor worked fine, otherwise -- though of course it didn't have all the necessary DYP bells and whistles available.
Click to expand...
Strange about the offset - the resource images for the two versions align perfectly if you drop one on top of another.

I also tried bringing in the DYP-modded .bic into the 1.21 folder. That didn't work either. I got as far as the splash screen, then the app itself splashed.
Click to expand...
That's not surprising - it's a 1.29 BIC and contains ectra data that 1.21 knows nothing about.

I'm wondering now if... if a 1.21g bic was created with the extra map doodads (all the resources), if it would work as strictly a map editor. As long as you didn't mod the civs, if it would make usable worlds (like for making a DYP earth). Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Try the attached 1.21 .BIC file ;) It contains the extra resources, units, buildings, races and techs, copied and pasted from a 1.29 DyP file. You'll have to use it in conjunction with the new Art and Text files from DyP, I think. I haven't actually tried it :hmm:
 

Attachments

AlanH said:
...Thanks for that - always a delight to see how you guys are expanding my mother tongue with such subtle charm :p
Click to expand...
Pleased to be of some amusement. Afterall, a jester unemployed is nobody's fool...
Try the attached 1.21 .BIC file
Click to expand...
Wow-wee! Thanks for posting it, Alan! I will give it a shot and report back.

Okay, I tried it...
Valiant effort, Alan. With the new .bic, after bringing in the DYP art and text files, the editor was able to open. Fantastic beginning. The catch: as soon as I tried autogenerating a base map to mod, the editor died. Not a slow, groaning death with an error message, it just disappeared. Not an "unexpectedly quit" message.
So... I tried it again. I looked in the selector files for the resources and sure enough, all the DYP doodads were there: coffee, shellfish, etc. This time I hand "painted" several bands of terrain thinking maybe I could get around the choke point. The terrain went on fine (nothing new in there), but the instant I selected "shellfish" I got the same sudden quit.

It really would be a shame for so much work to go to waste.
Thoughts?
 
Hmm! As I said, I didn't try it. It wasn't a big job, which is why I gave it a quick shot. I just hex edited in the resources, techs, units, building, civs.

However .... I've investigated the crash, and the problem looks like it was because the standard terrain structures don't have room for all the extra goodies they can have. So I've adjusted this bit of the bic, tested it, and it will now create a map in the editor. However, if I try to load the generated map into the DyP Civ3 application it crashes somewhere in the Civillopedia code. So there's still something wrong :(

Here's the bic file for you to play with if you like. Meanwhile I'll try to find time to investigate some more.
 

Attachments

The good news is that if you just use the above bic file in the editor to create a map, and don't check Custom Rules, it creates a map that loads OK in Civ3/DyP 1.29 :D
 
Welcome to the Mac forum, Owain. Stick around, you might get to like us :)

Thanks for the reassurance about the resource artifacts

It's not Macs being unfriendly, but Firaxis/MacSoft not giving us the 1.29 editor. Actually, they haven't even given us 1.29 yet officially, so I suppose we should be grateful for small mercies. :hmm:
 
Alan, thank you for going as far as you have looking at this. It's more than any of us could ask for. I was ready to say that I'll download it, try just making a map, and see where it breaks, but...
AlanH said:
The good news is that if you just use the above bic file in the editor to create a map, and don't check Custom Rules, it creates a map that loads OK in Civ3/DyP 1.29 :D
Click to expand...
Woohoo! That is Fantastic! Again, thank you! I'll try making a map and playing around. Give it the Samsonite test and see what happens.
As they say in the game: A plate of Hero Cookies for you!
 
Let me know how it goes for you. I've no idea why it fails when you enable custom rules the rules, but then I guess you shouldn't need to given the effort the DyP team have already put into it. If it's important I'll try to compare the BIC it produces with the ones that work.
 
New Here - Been addicted for about 10 months now but never checked out the web site.

Question - what is DyP?

Sometimes the jargon and the acronyms have to be repeated for newbies.


Is there a place I'm supposed to know to go to in order to find out about this?

Sorry if this is supposed to be obvious or anything.

'tanks
 
Hi, Welcome. :wavey:

I hate TLAs - three letter acronyms - as well, and I do try to avoid them, honest. But sometimes I slip up :(

DyP = Double your Pleasure. It's a mod pack you can download and install in Civ3 to add a *lot* of new tech, improvements, units, civs .... to the basic game.
Google actually gives this as the third listing on the first page if you enter DyP. That's the web site of the originators of the mod. There's also a thread in the Customisation and Creation forum on this site where it's discussed, and another forum dedicated to it at CDG, linked from the first site I gave. We just deal with the Mac-specific issues of installing it (and now editing it) in this Mac forum.
 
I've been looking around, checked the DyP site, etc. I can't find the Mac version of this download. Is this thing actually cross-compatable? Also, I was wondering if the GOTY update is necessary for the Mac GOTY to use.
This is just a rather big, fat, time-eating download to do, if I'm not getting the right one...

help.
 
The PC mod files are compatible. There is no separate Mac mod because it's not required.

- Download the 30MByte Mod Pack zip file for the PC - 1.29f version.
- Expand it to a file called "Full_DYP_101r.exe" or something similar.
- Drag and drop it onto Sutffit Expander which will create "Full_DYP_101r.exe Folder"
- Create a copy of your standard Civ3 1.29b2 folder and add the mod files form this folder. You can ensure that this is done properly if you use my drag and drop installer:
- Download my drag and drop mod installer here. It expands to a disk image. Copy the application to your hard drive.
- Launch it.
- If the Civ3 Folder that you want to modify is not listed in the window then drop that Folder (NOT the application) onto the installer window to add it.
- Drag the DyP Folder onto the installer winodw and and drop it on the icon for the Civ3 copy you want to modify.
- Confirm that you want to do the deed.
- Launch the Civ3 app in that folder and play DyP.

As far as I know GOTY is just a marketing packaging gimmick, and has no significance technically. You MUST ensure that you have applied the 1.29b2 patch to your Civ3 before installing DyP.
 
RE: the DyP bic mod for Mac editing...
AlanH said:
Let me know how it goes for you.
Click to expand...
Okay, here goes: I didn't even try changing the rules (didn't need to, DyP is fantastic all by itself), but I did make a map and play through it just fine. Again, Alan: thank you.
...One thing I did notice is that the editor won't reopen a modded map. It doesn't crash the program -- it just plain won't open the map. Kind of a bummer if you wanted to make tweaks -- you've definitely got to get it right the first time! Any thoughts or are we bumping the limits of what can be done?
 
No, we're not bumping any technical limits - only my spare time :D

That reopen failure's very interesting. Since the editor created the file you'd think it would know how to read it again :hmm: I'll try to investigate and let you know if I find anything.
 
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