GOTM 40 Pre-Game Discussion

ainwood

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GOTM 40: GREECE.

Civilization: Greece.
Word Size: Standard.
Climate: Normal, warm.
Barbarians: Raging.
Age: 5 Billion.
Land Form: (nominally) Continents, 70% Ocean.
Difficulty: Regent. :ack:
Rivals: 7 Pre-Selected.

Starting Screenshot:
gotm40large.jpg


Minimap:
gotm40mini.jpg
 
And the catch?

Low score conquest, for sure this time. Move 1 NE so that I'm on the river and not sitting on a BG; worker immediately begin mining and then road after the mine's finished, then road-mine the tile 1 NW.

Chances are the wines are on the main landmass and we won't be on it until Map Making, that's what I'm betting the catch is. (Well, besides raging barbs.)


EDIT:

Actually, looking at the minimap, moving north in any direction might bring some tundra into the capital's radius.
 
Hmm....

Initial thoughts are to move 1 tile SW and get the 2 fishes in my expanded range. Then research as fast as possible towards map making to get off this tiny rock on which Ainwood placed us.
 
QwertySoft said:
snip.. Move 1 NE ...

Chances are the wines are on the main landmass and we won't be on it until Map Making, that's what I'm betting the catch is.

I guess you meant NW and not NE...

At least the wines are relatively usefull even in their unimproved state. Like a roaded irrigated plains if IIRC - 2 Food, 1 Sheild, 1 commerce.
 
With this being regent, I'm think it might be worth taking some time to find a good central spot for the capital. The water to the SE looks like it could be a bay. Inital thoughts are worker N, and if nothing, settler E. Like QwertySoft said, we're very far north. If there's room to move SE I think it will be worth it.
 
Well this will be an interesting decision. We of course will want to move to the river N or NW. If we move NW we can keep the southern fish in the 21 tile range for the Capital...but we will loose the ability to make use of the 2nd fish because it's closer than 3 tiles at that point. If we move north we loose both fish for the capital but we can pick up both in a 1st ring city at distance 3. So I guess I will start the worker mining where he's at and move the Settler north and plop him down there unless I can see a great reason to take a 2nd step. I'm a big fan of setting my initial core at ring 3 and 6. (Thanks AlanH for showing me the way) and then using a wider spacing in my second core where I Jump the palace.
 
What's the attraction of fish?

[EDIT] Sorry, maybe that needs some expansion. I'm wondering when I'd get around to using it. Until we get out of despotism it's worse than the river/grass tiles, which can get to 2food/2gold with just a road. The capital's roles for 3000 years are either settler pump or worker/unit pump. It needs shields and/or food bonuses, and fish provide neither. It prolly doesn't want to grow above pop 6, so you're looking for six good tiles, and I don't think the fish qualify.
 
Extra food? But not until out of despotism.

I need to finish GOTM 39 before getting too far into speculation with this one. (Anyone want odds on me finishing? I'm not even to 1000 BC and going for 20K for the first time ever above warlord. Should be quite the laugh riot. :p ) It looks like plenty of interesting options for the first town, though.

Renata
 
Actually, with a harbor they go up to 3 food. But I'd rather spend 60 shields on a granary than 80 on a harbor. Not only that, a Harbor would probably come WAY too late to have a good effect on a settler pump; compared to a granary the harbor's near useless.

My personal plan is to put down a VERY loose city placement, filling in gaps with cheap libraries(but not enough to trigger 100k; I want conquest here. If all goes well I can get my 6th shield in GOTM42 and be done with this run) and just building up military and gold with my initial set of cities, then go all-out with upgrades at some point(might go the horse->knights upgrade route) and storm my nearby opponents, NOT filling in that territory(don't want to trigger another domination win) and then waiting around for the late MA to storm the other continent with Cavalries.

Actually, with a continents map, getting map making early is important if you're gonna get a successful suicide galley, and a successful one on continents is potentially even more powerful than one on archipelago: You meet a ton of civs in one fell swoop, instead of one at a time, and there's a much higher chance that they haven't met before either because of the greater gaps.

Oh, and yes, I did mean 1 NW for the initial move. I get West and East mixed up all the time so that's why you see me saying things like "1 Up-Left" a lot.
 
My thoughts would be move 1 N to settle - start a mine with the worker on the opening tile - researching pottery at max then writing at minimum - build order is warrior->warrior->settler->granary - 1st settler to go either 1 or 2 SW of start to become a worker factory - 2nd settler to go E from starting a couple of tiles with Colossus or GLight as his goal.

It's very possible that the S water is just a large bay and that the wines are on the same land mass. It's very likely that my capital will be moving S once a get my FP built in this area.

Any thoughts on the GA starter? As Greece is Commercial & Scientific, GLib is the only wonder pre-Newton for SCI, with GLight, Colossus & Magellan filling the COM. I prefer not to use Hoplites for GA unless I've already gotten to Republic (which should be a good government for the Greeks). No real victory goals in mind for this one, though it's been a while since I've gone for 20K or Space. The Greeks just don't seem to be a domination/conquest type tribe.
 
I don't fancy regent games and past two regent games i either didn't play or quit in the middle...
But this time I will try to play and do something different from usual domination... Well.... if i have time that is. :)
May be 20K this time or diplomatic...
How do you play for fast diplomatic win on regent?
Human player can't really use AIs for help or can it?
 
I do hope Ainwood left us some nearby civs to pillage the crud out of. That's always entertaining, when playing as Greece. :)

Renata
 
Looking at the mini-map one can speculate we are on small island and continent starts south from us where wine source is.
 
Why the fish? They provide 2 commerce on turns when I don't need the shields. They also provide that extra boost while building 2-turn warriors at size 3+. I don't want to hunt around looking for a food bonus, so I'm going to get my first settler out on turn 21. I'm going to need that extra commerce because I'm going to have to pay to support the barracks I'm building first.

Build order(with turn produced): barracks (9),warrior(12),warrior(15),settler(21),warrior(25). Then I decide based on what the neighborhood looks like. If we are isolated then I will consider a pre-build for GL or GLH. If we are not isolated then either a granary(39) or warriors every 2 turns from turn 30 (with an occasional worker.)

Either way, my 1st 2 warriors have 9 turns to find an acceptable location for a settler pump.
 
The problem with ocean fish (food-wise) is you don't get that third food until you have both a harbor and a better government. (+1 food coast/+1 food fish/+1 food harbor/-1 food if still in despotism) The versatility with respect to commerce is nice, though; I won't argue with that.

Renata
 
Fish is +2, so you do get a bonus from the harbour. The commerce bonus is good if you don't give anything else up for it, but you can get one anyway, it. How often are you going to use them both? In this case you may sacrifice some river tiles with more shield value in the north - there's at least one river/forest up there, though it does look as if the tundra is encroaching.
 
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