Conquest 12 - the Hunt Continues
- Thread starter ainwood
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kojimanard
Warlord
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Here are four saves. The earliest is 570 BC (it went so fast I forgot to save 1000). Among what I'm sure are many errors, I got the Philosophy free tech, but had not developed Code and so could not use it for Republic (I don't remember what I took, but it was the most expensive available). I built the city for iron near the Koreans, then rushed to Chivalry to get Answar, along the way building vet horsemen for upgrade to Answar. After I got Chiv, I turned down science, and went after the Koreans. That seemed to work ok, and I was able to wipe them out. In the rush to Chiv, however, I skipped Monarchy and Republic and fought the war in Despotism (another mistake I think), switching to Republic near the end. After the war, I tried to do some building, but France, England and Portugal declared war. French have been hitting me with cav and muskets, and while I've fended them off for a while, it looks like I'm in serious danger of losing cities, and that's where it is on the last save (1280 AD).
Appreciate comments, but please be kind.
Appreciate comments, but please be kind.
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- Oct 5, 2001
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- 30,080
Ok - a few observations from the final save:
Firstly, you aren't in a great position, but I think it can be recovered. It looks like you've done a pretty-good job in dispatching the Koreans. You top the city count, and are second in land-area, so you really have the potential to get yourself on-top.
Firstly, do you have a victory goal in mind?
I notice that you are going a bit broke. You're trying to self-research, but are lacking income to do it effectively, so are falling behind. As it stands, I think you lack the infrastructure for fast research, in that you have only one library and only one marketplace. You have a LOT of temples, which are OK given that you are a religious civ (and got them cheap), but the shields might have been better invested into a few libraries and marketplaces.
It is unfortunate that you appear to have the capital and the forbidden palace in the same city - moving the palace might be an option, a it is currently near the edge of your empire (relocating to the Korean homelands might be useful).
At the moment, you are building a LOT of pikemen, presumably because you fear an attack. Given that the world has moved-on from you tech-wise (you're being attacked with Cavalry!
), pikes aren't going to be much use to you. You already have 23 of them, so I think you probably have enough - stop building them. With the ones that you have, don't bother keeping them in towns in the middle of your core - get them to the front-lines and to threatened cities.
One thing in your favour is that you still have 10 ansar warriors. This is probably not enough do any real damage to france, but may be enough to stop them doing any real damage to you.
If you look, they have only one source of horses, and, it would appear, no iron. They obviously have saltpetre however, because they're throwing cavalry & muskets at you. What I would suggest is seeing if you can buy gunpowder (you can trade resources with Russia and the Byzantines). Maybe you could form an alliance with the Byzantines by giving them horses? They might tie-up portugal and england for a while. Don't worry too much about those other civs, as they are on another continent, and the AI is normally pretty bad at launching inter-continental invasions. Maybe keep a couple of ansars near prospective landing sites.
If you can, you'll be able to see where their saltpetre sources are. The mobility of the ansar warriors means that you can get deep into their territory. You have enough to form two or three groups, and I think that moving into french territory and aiming to pillage the horses would be a great move - that will stop them producing cavalry, which is your main problem at the moment. If you can find saltpetre and pillage their sources of that, then even better, because with no iron they'll be sending longbows at you - which your ansar warriors should be able to rip apart.
Firstly, you aren't in a great position, but I think it can be recovered. It looks like you've done a pretty-good job in dispatching the Koreans. You top the city count, and are second in land-area, so you really have the potential to get yourself on-top.
Firstly, do you have a victory goal in mind?
I notice that you are going a bit broke. You're trying to self-research, but are lacking income to do it effectively, so are falling behind. As it stands, I think you lack the infrastructure for fast research, in that you have only one library and only one marketplace. You have a LOT of temples, which are OK given that you are a religious civ (and got them cheap), but the shields might have been better invested into a few libraries and marketplaces.
It is unfortunate that you appear to have the capital and the forbidden palace in the same city - moving the palace might be an option, a it is currently near the edge of your empire (relocating to the Korean homelands might be useful).
At the moment, you are building a LOT of pikemen, presumably because you fear an attack. Given that the world has moved-on from you tech-wise (you're being attacked with Cavalry!
), pikes aren't going to be much use to you. You already have 23 of them, so I think you probably have enough - stop building them. With the ones that you have, don't bother keeping them in towns in the middle of your core - get them to the front-lines and to threatened cities.One thing in your favour is that you still have 10 ansar warriors. This is probably not enough do any real damage to france, but may be enough to stop them doing any real damage to you.
If you look, they have only one source of horses, and, it would appear, no iron. They obviously have saltpetre however, because they're throwing cavalry & muskets at you. What I would suggest is seeing if you can buy gunpowder (you can trade resources with Russia and the Byzantines). Maybe you could form an alliance with the Byzantines by giving them horses? They might tie-up portugal and england for a while. Don't worry too much about those other civs, as they are on another continent, and the AI is normally pretty bad at launching inter-continental invasions. Maybe keep a couple of ansars near prospective landing sites.
If you can, you'll be able to see where their saltpetre sources are. The mobility of the ansar warriors means that you can get deep into their territory. You have enough to form two or three groups, and I think that moving into french territory and aiming to pillage the horses would be a great move - that will stop them producing cavalry, which is your main problem at the moment. If you can find saltpetre and pillage their sources of that, then even better, because with no iron they'll be sending longbows at you - which your ansar warriors should be able to rip apart.
DaveMcW
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2002
- Messages
- 6,489
The French are indeed threatening your cities, but that is not your biggest problem right now. Here is how I would rank your troubles:
1. Your economy is second to last in the world. (F11 screen)
2. You are half an age behind in tech. (The French have industrial age graphics)
3. 3 civs are allied against you. (F4 screen with military alliance checked)
4. Obsolete unit support is eating 40% of your uncorrupted income. (F1 screen)
There are a couple ways you could fix this.
The Builder Way
Pay 7 gold per turn for peace with France (they will talk next turn).
Turn off science spending, it is cheaper to buy techs now. Eventually you will find a tech that some AIs are missing, buy it and then barter it for other techs to get a 2-for-1 deal.
Be sure to pay gold per turn for techs. Your opponents lose their money if they backstab you. And you can start using and trading the tech much earlier than if you saved up the gold/beakers yourself.
Move 13 military units into Seoul. Then abandon Medina. This is called a Free Palace Jump, and it will allow many more of your cities to be productive. Unfortunately you have to rebuild the Forbidden Palace, but it will pay off in the long run.
Disband your 15 most obsolete military units, and replace them with 15 workers.
Build marketplaces (and later banks) in every uncorrupt city.
The Diplomacy/Backstab Way
One of your biggest reasons your economy sucks is the Russians have cities in "your" core around the capital. You need to take them over. As an added bonus, the Russians have the Great Library.
Some sneaky diplomacy is needed, since you are so far behind.
We give 6 gold per turn, Ottomans give 100 gold.
Use that gold to buy embassies with Russians and Ottomans (Shift-E).
We give Incense and 1 gold per turn, Russians give alliance vs France.
We give 17 gold per turn, Ottomans give alliance vs France.
Now France will get a major beatdown from both sides. Hopefully that will keep the pressure off you, since you are locked into the alliances for 20 turns. (Cancelling them earlier will destroy your ability to do gold per turn deals.)
Now build 10 more Ansar warriors (20 total). Sign a right of passage with russia and park all 20 Ansars outside of Moscow. Cancel every deal with Russia, using the "Active" link on the bottom of the negotiating table. Declare war and capture the Great Library, hold it for 1 turn, then start upgrading.
This will destroy your ability to use ROPs, but leave your gold per turn reputation intact.
Good luck!
1. Your economy is second to last in the world. (F11 screen)
2. You are half an age behind in tech. (The French have industrial age graphics)
3. 3 civs are allied against you. (F4 screen with military alliance checked)
4. Obsolete unit support is eating 40% of your uncorrupted income. (F1 screen)
There are a couple ways you could fix this.
The Builder Way
Pay 7 gold per turn for peace with France (they will talk next turn).
Turn off science spending, it is cheaper to buy techs now. Eventually you will find a tech that some AIs are missing, buy it and then barter it for other techs to get a 2-for-1 deal.
Be sure to pay gold per turn for techs. Your opponents lose their money if they backstab you. And you can start using and trading the tech much earlier than if you saved up the gold/beakers yourself.
Move 13 military units into Seoul. Then abandon Medina. This is called a Free Palace Jump, and it will allow many more of your cities to be productive. Unfortunately you have to rebuild the Forbidden Palace, but it will pay off in the long run.
Disband your 15 most obsolete military units, and replace them with 15 workers.
Build marketplaces (and later banks) in every uncorrupt city.
The Diplomacy/Backstab Way
One of your biggest reasons your economy sucks is the Russians have cities in "your" core around the capital. You need to take them over. As an added bonus, the Russians have the Great Library.
Some sneaky diplomacy is needed, since you are so far behind.
We give 6 gold per turn, Ottomans give 100 gold.
Use that gold to buy embassies with Russians and Ottomans (Shift-E).
We give Incense and 1 gold per turn, Russians give alliance vs France.
We give 17 gold per turn, Ottomans give alliance vs France.
Now France will get a major beatdown from both sides. Hopefully that will keep the pressure off you, since you are locked into the alliances for 20 turns. (Cancelling them earlier will destroy your ability to do gold per turn deals.)
Now build 10 more Ansar warriors (20 total). Sign a right of passage with russia and park all 20 Ansars outside of Moscow. Cancel every deal with Russia, using the "Active" link on the bottom of the negotiating table. Declare war and capture the Great Library, hold it for 1 turn, then start upgrading.
This will destroy your ability to use ROPs, but leave your gold per turn reputation intact.
Good luck!
I am at about 1800 AD with the game. I am pretty sure I gave away all the advantage I had when I went into an ill timed war with the Koreans, and I didnt realize that my coal source was so exposed. It limited my ability to really take control. However, I am dealing with that stupid mistake. My biggest problem seems to lie in score. I need to boost my scores. I am sure there is a forum that discusses this somewhere. Are there a few sure fire ways to achieve a higher score?
Any suggestions would be valuable.
Any suggestions would be valuable.
kojimanard
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 238
Thanks for the comments guys, you've brought up some moves that I won't have thought of, and which will be helpful in other games. When I get home this evening, I'll pull up the game and look at the suggestions in more detail and see if I have any questions. I may try several approaches as a learning tool.
Unfortunately I didnt take any notes during this age, my apologies, but do recall some information as well as looked back through my saves.
During the MA I decided to start filling in between my cities and in places had cities placed CxC. This didnt last long as it began to hamper the original cities growth. It wasnt long before those cities were abandoned.
Since I decided to go for Space Race I decided to create several science farm cities, or at least my understanding of them. Irrigating all the surrounding grassland I was able to grow Medina, Baghdad, and Yaroslavl to size 12 with each having respectively 5, 2, and 3 science citizens. Other cities were able to bring in an additional 6 science citizens for a total of 16 science citizens in all.
I was able to stay towards the top of the tech race but was confused at the AIs choice of research. The AI researched the top of the tech tree as well as the bottom so I wasnt able to get many monopoly techs. The AI did branch off and go the middle of the tree, leaving me the remaining of the top.
My biggest mistakes came just before the IA. I had researched Theory of Gravity and France had Magnetism. Wanting to jump into the IA and get Steam Power I began my rapid choice of bad deals. Just of note, for some reason I was under the belief that with a rail system it would seriously improve this game so made many bad choices in the attempt to get Steam Power.
From what I remember neither France nor Russia had ToG so I went to France first in an effort to trade ToG for Magnetism. As I recall they wanted ToG, 41 gpt, plus some gold. Wishing to check on Russia first I declined the Frances offer and went to see what Russia was willing to do. Russia did not have Magnetism but was willing to give gold for ToG and I made the mistake and taking it. I realized the problem when I went back to France and learned that ToG wasnt worth as much to them anymore. They now wanted ToG and 92 gpt and I made another mistake of agreeing. This brought France, Russia, and myself into the IA.
Now as I stated my main priority was to get Steam Power, and wouldnt you know it the following turn Russia had it? This obviously leads into my next mistake of buying Steam Power from the Russians for 123 gpt and finishing off my spoiler as well as my mistakes. BTW, I didnt have coal in my territory.
I also never got into a single war during the MA which was probably another bad choice.
Unfortunately part of the way into the IA things went really bad, so I doubt I'll be finishing this game. More mistakes though I guess I'll have to wait until the next thread to state them.
Did they ever figure out a way to retire the game and still submit it? I hate to have played this much and don't want to torture myself just so I can submit the final game.
Note: My 1060 save was 1 turn into the IA after I purchased Steam Power, so it does have the locations of coal on the map.
During the MA I decided to start filling in between my cities and in places had cities placed CxC. This didnt last long as it began to hamper the original cities growth. It wasnt long before those cities were abandoned.
Since I decided to go for Space Race I decided to create several science farm cities, or at least my understanding of them. Irrigating all the surrounding grassland I was able to grow Medina, Baghdad, and Yaroslavl to size 12 with each having respectively 5, 2, and 3 science citizens. Other cities were able to bring in an additional 6 science citizens for a total of 16 science citizens in all.
I was able to stay towards the top of the tech race but was confused at the AIs choice of research. The AI researched the top of the tech tree as well as the bottom so I wasnt able to get many monopoly techs. The AI did branch off and go the middle of the tree, leaving me the remaining of the top.
My biggest mistakes came just before the IA. I had researched Theory of Gravity and France had Magnetism. Wanting to jump into the IA and get Steam Power I began my rapid choice of bad deals. Just of note, for some reason I was under the belief that with a rail system it would seriously improve this game so made many bad choices in the attempt to get Steam Power.
From what I remember neither France nor Russia had ToG so I went to France first in an effort to trade ToG for Magnetism. As I recall they wanted ToG, 41 gpt, plus some gold. Wishing to check on Russia first I declined the Frances offer and went to see what Russia was willing to do. Russia did not have Magnetism but was willing to give gold for ToG and I made the mistake and taking it. I realized the problem when I went back to France and learned that ToG wasnt worth as much to them anymore. They now wanted ToG and 92 gpt and I made another mistake of agreeing. This brought France, Russia, and myself into the IA.
Now as I stated my main priority was to get Steam Power, and wouldnt you know it the following turn Russia had it? This obviously leads into my next mistake of buying Steam Power from the Russians for 123 gpt and finishing off my spoiler as well as my mistakes. BTW, I didnt have coal in my territory.
I also never got into a single war during the MA which was probably another bad choice.
Unfortunately part of the way into the IA things went really bad, so I doubt I'll be finishing this game. More mistakes though I guess I'll have to wait until the next thread to state them.
Did they ever figure out a way to retire the game and still submit it? I hate to have played this much and don't want to torture myself just so I can submit the final game.
Note: My 1060 save was 1 turn into the IA after I purchased Steam Power, so it does have the locations of coal on the map.
kojimanard
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 238
When I read your posts earlier today, Ainwood and Dave McW, you both seemed to refer to my palace in Medina. I thought you were mistaken because it was in Mecca. But I just checked and it has moved to Medina!? I was unaware of this move and don't know how it happened. It was still in Mecca at 1060 AD. I guess it moved after the French attacked, but I've never seen that happen. Do you think that's what happened? Always learning something new....
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2001
- Messages
- 30,080
Were you using a palace pre-build in Medina and forget about it? Or perhaps rush it when you meant to rush something else?kojimanard said:
The palace only moves by either building/rushing it, or when the city that it is in is captured / destroyed / abandoned.
Fat_Blerk
Chieftain
I would be interested in some advice. I have tried for Conquest but seem to have come to a grinding halt. In my excitement of clearing the home island I have neglected the other civs and have now noticed that they have jumped ahead in techs and will now probably be met by cavalry and the kitchen sink in my intended invasion. I could proably guess that England are the easiest to attempt first and shoudl I be bothered about lagging behind in the tech race ?
The main problem I have found in this game is really bad war weariness and I don't seem to have had the money to be able to cope with it. I have had to employ entertainers as well as having the slider to 70-80% most of the game. Is this because I am fighting more than one civ in Republic. Is this because I haven't built enough temples and marketplaces ? Tips ?
The main problem I have found in this game is really bad war weariness and I don't seem to have had the money to be able to cope with it. I have had to employ entertainers as well as having the slider to 70-80% most of the game. Is this because I am fighting more than one civ in Republic. Is this because I haven't built enough temples and marketplaces ? Tips ?
@ methos
If you are going for a space victory you realy need to get some more land (you territory is too small and you will probably miss some reasources). Upgrade horsmen to ansar and attack korea (it would be better to attack russia but you are paying gpt to them and you want to keep your rep clean), before they get rifles, you will triger you GA with this and now is the best time for it.
You are in a democracy so fight a brief war take as many cities as you can and when the ww hits just sign peace and get more cities and tecs.
Your military is strong to russia, korea otomans and england, average to france and byzantines and weak to portugal. Take advantage of this.
You can squeze a city in the ex-english land to get dyes.
you are paying lot of GPT deals ~200 it's not good because it hampers your
reasearch
. Your income is is just 50 on 80 % tax because of this but when you start your GA it will jump to 200.
You still have 3 warriors?? Disband them you realy dont need them they are just eating your income. you have to few workers just 8 and 1 slave. It's not enough the goledn rule is to have 1 (like to have 1,5) worker per city and you have only 0.4 per city. Becuse you will have to RR real soon.
Dont build sience cities in your core you make sience citys out of your corrupt citys or floodplain cities.
If you are going for a space victory you realy need to get some more land (you territory is too small and you will probably miss some reasources). Upgrade horsmen to ansar and attack korea (it would be better to attack russia but you are paying gpt to them and you want to keep your rep clean), before they get rifles, you will triger you GA with this and now is the best time for it.
You are in a democracy so fight a brief war take as many cities as you can and when the ww hits just sign peace and get more cities and tecs.
Your military is strong to russia, korea otomans and england, average to france and byzantines and weak to portugal. Take advantage of this.
You can squeze a city in the ex-english land to get dyes.
you are paying lot of GPT deals ~200 it's not good because it hampers your
reasearch
. Your income is is just 50 on 80 % tax because of this but when you start your GA it will jump to 200.
You still have 3 warriors?? Disband them you realy dont need them they are just eating your income. you have to few workers just 8 and 1 slave. It's not enough the goledn rule is to have 1 (like to have 1,5) worker per city and you have only 0.4 per city. Becuse you will have to RR real soon.
Dont build sience cities in your core you make sience citys out of your corrupt citys or floodplain cities.
@fat
Well by signing peace with otomans your ww will drop to 22% and destroying (or signing peace) with french all of your ww will go away.
Disband 9 spears and some pikes (you dont need so much defensive units when you are going for conquest) and your income will rise by 28 gold.
Trade with portugal for the world map, trade for one luxury form them.
Get mil-trad by trading or reasearching it, than save some money and upgrade ansar to cavs.
Byzanties have no horses so they will not have cavs, also ally english and portugese against them 3 turns before you land.
I noticed that most of you core cities have no marketplaces but some of the rural corupt cities have them. Markeplaces are a must in republic (ok it's not a must but they are so good in republic) i recomend that you build a few.
When you start wars in rep make them to be short (position than strike). You can run down a mid size civ in just 3-4 turns with cavlary.
Build a harbor in damascus and then build marketplace. it's your core city and it has a population of just 2.
Well by signing peace with otomans your ww will drop to 22% and destroying (or signing peace) with french all of your ww will go away.
Disband 9 spears and some pikes (you dont need so much defensive units when you are going for conquest) and your income will rise by 28 gold.
Trade with portugal for the world map, trade for one luxury form them.
Get mil-trad by trading or reasearching it, than save some money and upgrade ansar to cavs.
Byzanties have no horses so they will not have cavs, also ally english and portugese against them 3 turns before you land.
I noticed that most of you core cities have no marketplaces but some of the rural corupt cities have them. Markeplaces are a must in republic (ok it's not a must but they are so good in republic) i recomend that you build a few.
When you start wars in rep make them to be short (position than strike). You can run down a mid size civ in just 3-4 turns with cavlary.
Build a harbor in damascus and then build marketplace. it's your core city and it has a population of just 2.
Stilgar08
Emperor
Not only posting here because I want to quote the Beatles. 
I don't know if it's ok to ask this here but I don't know where to turn to and if I should post a savegame like this in the "regular COTM12 spoiler".
I'm playing open class, am in 1425 a.c., researching Scient.Method. and my save game crashes as soon as I try to change a scientist (e.g. in Medina) to anything else! It just kicks me out! Same thing if I turn another city-worker into an entertainer and then back into a scientist??? (I use the german version of c3c and have patch f1.22)
Any ideas what I should do??
If this post is in the wrong place, sorry!!
Feel free to p.m. me on this problem!
Merci!
I don't know if it's ok to ask this here but I don't know where to turn to and if I should post a savegame like this in the "regular COTM12 spoiler". I'm playing open class, am in 1425 a.c., researching Scient.Method. and my save game crashes as soon as I try to change a scientist (e.g. in Medina) to anything else! It just kicks me out! Same thing if I turn another city-worker into an entertainer and then back into a scientist???
(I use the german version of c3c and have patch f1.22)Any ideas what I should do??
If this post is in the wrong place, sorry!!
Feel free to p.m. me on this problem!
Merci!
Stilgar08
Emperor
Thank you Dave McW! Do it right away. sorry for any inconvenience!DaveMcW said:
Just to be clear, if you have technical problems with the game, as opposed to discussion of strategy and tactics, then you should PM a member of staff rather than post here, as the chances are the problem is specific to your setup. In this case, Karasu or Ainwood are the best bet as I don't play or own C3C.
Well, after getting caught planting a spy near the end that I am sure deflated my score a bit when portugal attacked me, I got a spaceship victory in 1950 AD, jason score 1960. So, it is clear that for the second month in a row, I will win a lowest score medal. Anyone want to offer private tutoring in score padding?
Fat_Blerk
Chieftain
Thanks to both of you who have given tips. Thats great.
Stilgar08 said:Not only posting here because I want to quote the Beatles.
I'm playing open class, am in 1425 a.c., researching Scient.Method. and my save game crashes as soon as I try to change a scientist (e.g. in Medina) to anything else! It just kicks me out! Same thing if I turn another city-worker into an entertainer and then back into a scientist???
Any ideas what I should do??
If this post is in the wrong place, sorry!!
Feel free to p.m. me on this problem!
Merci!
This happened to me a while ago. I was using custom smallheads with smilie faces, imported from PTW. If your file doesn't have civ engineers or policemen (only in c3c) all will be well until you click on a scientist and then the game crashes.
