GOTM 43 Final Spoiler (Free For All)

GOTM 43

The only requirement for this spoiler is that you have submitted your game.

Did you win? Lose? Retire?

What did you do well? What went wrong?

In 1310 AD when Persia landed their second load of 6 Modern Armor I decided to give up, and just started to hit enter, not that I was anywhere close to winning.

Very soon everybody ganged up on me, and shortly I was down to 5 cities, from around 20, (4 of those 5 defended by Samurai and Rifleman armies) but then the AI gave me a break for approx 150 years (including 2 inconclusive votes between Hannibal and Xerxes) before the Chinese cut me down to one city. They had one go at this last city, but then left it alone for the rest of the game, I guess they got busy attacking the rest of the world.

Finally in 1575 AD Persia launched and brought me out of my misery.
Score : Firaxis 1407, Jason 727.

Question : In 1310 AD I had a Firaxis score of 1579, would I have scored higher in the end if I had retired at that point?

zamint3 said:

Finally in 1575 AD Persia launched and brought me out of my misery.
Score : Firaxis 1407, Jason 727.

Question : In 1310 AD I had a Firaxis score of 1579, would I have scored higher in the end if I had retired at that point?

Click to expand...

Yes. With no victory bonus your Jason score is directly proportional to your Firaxis score, so your retirement Jason score at 1310 AD would have been 1579 * 727 / 1407 = 816.

Once your score starts to go down (ie your per-turn score is lower than your current Firaxis score) your Jason score is also going down. At that point your options are:

1. Recover the situation and improve your score again and/or win to get a victory bonus.

2. Fight to the death and lose some score in the process. Conquest defeat qualifies for an ambulance.

3. Head down and wait for the end and lose some score, which was your action. Defeat qualifies for an ambulance.

4. Commit suicide and let the AI defeat you fast to minimise the damage to your score. This allows you to submit a conquest defeat that might win an ambulance. As you score is higher this way than in 2 or 3 you improve your chances of a green ambulance.

5. Retire to minimise the damage to your score. Reirements don't qualify for ambulances.

The "fight to the death penalty" vs. retirement or suicide was one of the concerns raised by DaveMcW in the discussion thread about retirement. One option in the scoring might be to give some incentive to try option 2 by awarding points in a conquest loss based on the maximum Firaxis score reached in the game and/or the extra turns of survival during the last stand while score is declining. But designing such a scheme seems a lot of effort to go to for a small effect on the small scores of a small number of players.

Open class, going for 100K

My game turned into a nail-biter at the end. Important lesson learned: it is necessary to completely subdue your deity AI opponents before building culture. In the game, I conquered almost all of the ring continent (Persia had a few towns), packed it with 160+ towns and whipped and whipped and whipped. Naturally my economy was soon in ruins, and the surviving AIs raced ahead in tech. I reached 100K in 1495… but by then Persia had 58K. Attacking them didn’t seem like an option – even with artillery backup, I don’t like my chances with cavalry versus Mech Infantry supported by bombers so there was nothing to do but continue whipping and whipping and whipping.

I kept wars going with the other continent and kept Persia allied with me against them to try to slow everyone down, but I still had to survive a UN vote called by Persia (2 votes for Persia, 3 abstentions – even I couldn’t bring myself to vote for me). At the end, Persia had 8 spaceship parts built and a ninth under construction when I reached double their culture for 100K victory in 1610.

First GOTM in over a year, had to be the diety variety (first try ever). Goal was to survive by not losing by conquest - which I did However, even though I can now win at the Emporer level, Diety is a whole new ball game. I think when playing diety, one must focus on a single path to victory with no diversionary tactics. Instead, I did a little bit of this and that which led to a spaceship loss in the 1500's?? Jason score a pathetic 700 or so .

Considered to acquire a ROP with the owner of the GL but declined since I'm not a big fan of the ROP rape tactic - to me it is one of the most exploitative tactics in the CIV III module. But that's my personal opinion. Hopefully, that will be removed in CIV IV as it appears that the AI that meanders in and out of our territory without permission will be programmed out.

All in all, an enjoyable, yet humbling game.

Predator, goal was diplomatic victory.

Most of the research work was done by the persians
I sped them up a little by providing cash and by selecting the right techs from the ToE.
I also researched Medicine

I think i could've helped them a bit more if i could set up my second research core in the Mongol territory which i captured, but i didn't get any leaders for the FP despite having lots of elite victories (40+). I even started to think they were turned off somehow for the game, untill i saw a Mongol leader appear after they killed a samurai.

Diplomatic victory was achived in 1255 (My Jason was a bit more than 8k)
- too bad the AIs started fighting each other too much in the IA and slowed their research. I also made some mistakes choosing techs to research, and i started the UN prebuild a bit late. If i played the same strategy perfectly i could get the UN in 10xx. Doing lots of fighting to capture territory for scientists could be even better, also scientist are not that powerfull in vanilla.

ptw, open, culture 100k.

result: culture 100k achieved in 1690AD, with 186 cities making cpt of 1685. i just started to build up my culture way too late..
i conquered the whole continent, including the persia continent-in-continent quite late. probably i should have left persia there and started to rush culture building earlier.
so anyway, here's the two cores of my empire, one in the original japan, one in the ottomas region.



getting AI to fight each other is the only way that i managed to survive. China is at war with everyone throughout the entire game. Persia accumulated such a huge amount of money and there's one point in my war against persia that it bought alliance from everyone except china against me .. fortunately i survived that war...

i revolted several times through the entire game, first from Monarch to republic, then back to monarch when WW set in. and then to democracy and then to communism when i decided to build up my culture. i remember reading somewhere that communism is good for 100k because you could whip a lot of citizens or draft a lot of them. but my communist Japan was a total disaster. i am not sure whether it's a bug or not. but even my capitol has huge corruption in communism (~70% shields wasted) and my forbidden city makes only 1spt... is this normal? i have never tried communism before. below is the economy of my empire in communism:


and here's my capitol


i'll never use communism again in playing civilization... or will it be better in C3C?

So we entered the industrial age a few techs behind in republic, trying to catch up with some peaceful research. I researched medicine in 10 turns and traded it for electricity and replaceable parts. I then researched sanitation but the AI actually beat me to it. The AI almost never chooses that tech in my experience. After sanitation I turned research off. My economy just wasn’t set up for good research in the IA. It would take me 20 turns to research since I’ve had my lux slider at 20% the whole time due to only having 1 connect luxury (trading for 2 more). Looking back I probably should have hit Korea before the Ottomans. Then I would have not only gotten control of the Pyramids but also the dyes. But Korea was stronger than the Ottomans.

In 900AD my MPP’s do what MPP’s normally do. China attacks the Ottomans and I’m forced to declare on China also. But I was ready for war anyway. I had a decent force of infantry, artillery and cavalry and was about to go to war with Persia. I still declared war on Persia anyway. I wanted to get rid of Persia for a few reasons. First, they had been leading in techs the whole game and were accelerating the tech pace beyond where I could keep up. Second, they were furious with me because I razed one of their cities in the first war with them. And third, they’re the closest civ to my core so those cities won’t be hopelessly corrupt once I take them.

I also signed in the Vikings against the Persians. In the next few turns I end up at war with Carthage and Germany as well. So it’s a big world war with pretty much Japan, Korea, Ottomans and Vikings against Persia, China, Germany and Carthage.

By 1020AD I’ve made very little progress at all. I still only have my 2 cities on the Persian island, although I haven’t taken many casualties. But Persia sends waves of units every turn and I had no opportunity to push forward. On the China front it was pretty much a 3vs1 pile-up since most of the civs against us are on the other continent and I have Persia occupied. So China is finally erased in 1020AD. I captured three of their cities with the Ottomans taking most of the rest.

End of Chinese war:


Now I’ve been having real trouble trying to keep up in the tech race. The problem is there were 3 tech leaders; the Persians, the Ottomans and the Koreans. All the other civs were pretty far behind. I couldn’t buy a tech when the civ had a monopoly because no matter how much gpt I offered they wouldn’t give it up. So basically I had to buy techs after all 3 of those civs already knew it and I couldn’t turn around and sell it to the backwards civs because they had nothing to offer me. The three leaders were taking all their gpt and everything. So basically it was impossible for me to catch up. A big problem is that I had built libraries/universities in the middle ages instead of marketplaces and banks. So my income wasn’t too spectacular. I was making about 500gpt total and some of that was still going to luxes since I still only had 1 native luxury. I did buy scientific method and even had a pre-build for it but it had 5 turns left when I got the tech and the next turn the Ottomans had completed it. I can’t remember the exact dates but I swear they built the thing from start to finish in like 6 turns without any other available wonders (i.e. they didn’t switch from building something else).

In 1080AD I did something really stupid. I still have no idea what possessed me. But anyway a turn prior I had settled a city right next to an Ottoman oil colony guarded by an Ottoman infantry. The weird thing is the colony didn’t go away after I settled. I wasn’t sure if I had control of the oil or if the Ottomans did. Well stupid me I tell the Ottomans to remove their infantry from my territory and he declares war. Now a good 80% of my forces are on the Persian island now and are really needed there. So I try to hold off the Ottomans with like 5-10 units but producing more each turn. The Ottomans meanwhile have a large military due to all their successful warring on the Chinese, a military consisting of tanks. The good thing is my MPP is still intact with Korea so I know I’ll have an ally in the war. This same turn I also finally capture another Persian city along with silks. Two luxes down, 6 to go.

The next few turns the Ottomans capture a few of my ex-Chinese cities and force me to switch out of Republic back to Monarchy.

In 1160AD we trade the majority of our gpt away for Motorized Transportation and Radio to enter the modern age. Luckily Korea had no coal so I was getting some decent trades from them at that point. I was actually caught up in techs with all of the leaders now except missing Amphibious warfare. And now with my tanks I could finally make some progress on the war front.

My notes are few and far between in this period because the turns were taking forever with every civ at war. The AI builds way too many ships. But I was making very slow and steady progress. In 1260AD the Koreans discover Fission and immediately start building the UN. I investigated the city to see it would finish in just 9 turns. I couldn’t buy the tech no matter what. The good thing is I was gracious with 4 out of the 7 remaining civs. So I finally decided that if they did hold the vote I’d probably win it anyway.

In 1285AD I make another extraordinary blunder. The Germans had dropped a couple units off next to my capital. With all that was going on in the war I forgot that they were there before ending my turn. The good thing is they only captured it and didn’t raze it. The bad thing is it moved my capital right next to my forbidden palace city. So my corruption went through the roof and my gpt plummeted by 200 or so. I was frantic at that point. I recaptured the city easy enough but I had to find a leader to move my palace back. I had a whole 3 elite units that were available to pick off a few ottoman units. Amazingly enough I got my leader on the third victory and hurried the palace. I couldn’t believe how lucky that was. I hadn’t even built the heroic epic yet. So one more disaster averted.

In 1300 AD I realize that somehow my reputation got destroyed. I have no idea what deal got broken but the AI’s will no longer let me trade gpt for up-front goods. This means I have to buy techs with straight cash and I’m going to have an extremely difficult time keeping pace in the modern age.

In 1310 AD Korea builds the UN but doesn’t hold a vote.

In 1340AD I finished off the Persians, taking full control of their island. In 1395AD I finish off the Ottomans. The Germans also declared war on me somehow. I didn’t see the message but when I checked the diplo screen sure enough we were at war.

End of Ottoman/Persian wars:


In 1400AD I declare war on England and take their only two cities. This gains me ivory and I now have 8 luxuries. In 1410AD I finish my 40 turns on Ecology, being the first civ to get it so I make a good trade for computers. Mech infantry yay. I now revolt to go to democracy so I can start researching on my own. My goal is now a space victory since I know the date is too late for a good domination or conquest victory. I research synthetic fibers in 7 turns at –329gpt but I have a large treasury of over 7000g.

I shipped a few transports full of tanks over to the other continent and started taking out Carthage and Germany. The Vikings were also dealing heavy damage to Carthage. The Vikings have actually nearly caught up in techs and have tanks. Carthage is destroyed.

I take all the German cities except one that I had to take a boat to get to. In 1465 when I’m 1 turn away from destroying them the Vikings sneak attack me. They have huge stacks of units that they had just used to destroy Carthage. I counted around 15 tanks and 15 infantry all on one tile and about 10 infantry and 10 guerillas on another tile and they had other stacks as well. On top of that none of my city borders have closed so they can attack any city they want. They bomb the hell out of me taking out several luxuries and breaking up rails. They capture a couple cities. I had been at about 30% WW from the Germany/Carthage wars already and this sneak attack put me at 50% with the loss of two luxuries. The good thing is I had modern armor and they didn’t.

My modern armor was taking out their stacks with minor casualties. The next 3 turns I fought a completely defensive war but they also captured some of my cities up in the northern end of the continent that had no defenders. I gifted my ex-english cities to Korea rather than let the Vikings take them. But alas the WW was too much and I had to switch back to monarchy, destroying my research rate. By 1500AD, though, I had taken full control of the southern continent from the Vikings. I also learned Satellites, unfortunately Korea beat me to the tech. I made peace with the Vikings and switched back to democracy once again, hoping for my first turn of peace in 900 years.

Thankfully it was peaceful the rest of the way. I researched at around 5-8 turns per tech and launched my ship in 1595AD. I didn’t have a spy with Korea because I was afraid of a war declaration, but they had every spaceship tech except the Laser at the end.

Final map:


Overall I was very pleased with my result. As I stated from the start I would be happy with a victory. I definitely have some learning to do still.

Things I learned in this game:
1. Use RCP for PTW games.

2. Astronomy allows for sea travel so better trade those contacts and world maps beforehand.

3. Either research or buy techs for gold, but don’t switch it up multiple times mid game. I researched in the Middle Ages then turned research off in Industrial Age then researched again in Modern Age. The end result is my cities weren’t optimized for either strategy. For instance if I had decided I was going to buy techs all game then I would have built only marketplaces/banks and not libraries/universities. That would have not only have freed up a lot of production, but would have reduced maintenance costs also.

4. Don’t attack the most advanced civ with the most gold unless you're really ready for it. He will bring others into the fight. Try to sign in allies before he can.

5. Don’t assume the AI doesn’t have a resource without investigating a city, especially on deity, and especially if they’re technologically advanced. They are most likely trading for it.

6. Go for the luxuries sooner. Capturing even one luxury is more important than capturing 5-10 cities. I should have hit up Korea for the pyramids early. They were strong yes, but controlling the pyramids meant they would be strong all game unless I had dealt with them. By the time the modern age came around they had almost all pop 25 cities which I wasn’t about to go anywhere near.

7. It's a good thing we were religious as I changed governments 5 times this game. I need to learn to better manage war weariness and to be ready for sneak attacks. Losing cities makes WW skyrocket.

And other stuff as well. Sorry for the length of the post.

edit: Well Ainwood's animated minimaps in the first spoiler intrigued me. I turned on the archive feature in civassist2 in 1250AD. So here's my animated minimaps from that point forward.

@ionimplant: Have a look at the recenty completed SGOTM 6 games. Some of the teams, including our Xteam, used a late Communist rush to whip culture. We reached over 3000 cpt at the end under the guidance of our 100k expert, Gyathaar.

You have to ignore the issue of corruption and waste, and consider food as your prime commodity. Turn food into shields using whipping and drafting to build settlers, temples, libraries, cathedrals and universities. Build towns in every nook and cranny - your target is one every four tiles. We had close to 400 towns at the end.

You do have to watch your gold reserves because your culture buildings will cost maintenance. Every town produces 1 gpt which pays for ts temple, and then you need to use taxmen and turn fully cultured towns over to producing wealth. But you need a good treasury at the start because you'll still be running net negative gpt by the end.

BTW, you also have to micromanage until your brain explodes. Our culture rush lasted for about 50 turns. As SGOTM 6 was an SG each player only had to endure a single turn set of this torture. I wouldn't relish doing it in a single player game.

Me? I'm going back to conquest and domination

Communism is horrible, horrible, horrible in Vanilla/PTW. It was fixed in C3C, where it gives the most shields/turn of any government.

I'm a little annoyed at my very poor space race loss (1805), mostly due to the fact that when I took over the UN from the Persians I could have easily won the vote.

I was trying to go for domination when I realised that I was going to lose the space race and the only option was to wait for another UN vote, which was in about 5 turns time.

Unfortunately Chine won the space race (and just as I was beginning to take them out also.)

In hindsight even If I had abused right of passage and destroyed their capitol the germans probably would have won the space race instead.

Payback with France deity!

OPEN

After reaching the middle ages in 1050 BC I built up my infrastructure with libraries and marketplaces in the core cities. I wanted to get to chivalry, upgrade some horsemen to Samurai and start a war with the Mongols and start my Golden Age.

In 510 BC I learned chivalry and the next turn wartime started.
In 190 AD I learned MT and upgraded my troops to cavalry. It took a very long time untill I got my first GL. This was the only unlucky situation, everything else was really in my favour (the biggest luck was, that the Persians had the Great Lighthouse, this delayed the contacts and gave me very nice trading opportunities.
England, the powerhouse of the other continent demanded communications with China once and since I refused, they declared war. That was a pity, because they were my best trading partner with lots of money. So, the next best thing to do was to team up with all other civs over there to fight against England. This kept everyone occupied for about 1000 years.

After owning my home continent in 420 AD, the invasion of the other continent started. I made the mistake and started with Germany and then Carthago. They were strong and had salpeter. I should have started with England and Russia. This would have lowered my date for the domination victory by at least 6 turns.

Here are some minimaps showing the progress of Japan:



I reached the domination limit in 650 AD. This was my fastest domination win on deity so far.

I liked the map lay-out, it gave security with very short front lines to either defend or advance. It helped to take one opponent at the time.
I don't like the mediterranien resources too much because I always have think twice what should I mine and what should I irrigate.
The differential ship movement is in my opinion a too big advantage for the human on these kind of maps. Suicide galleys mostly need to survive just one turn and since the AI does not send them, early contact and lots of trading opportunities for the human are the result.

Predator First spoiler is here

This game is mainly a gigantic reminder of how bad I usually play in the expansion phase. I always seem to make the wrong decisions no matter what. But in a way it turned out to be an interesting game.

Anyway, I entered the Middle Ages because of two keshiks parked outside Shimonoseki. There was a gpt deal giving us Currency. The Mongols wanted to keep the cake and eat it, and declared war when I booted them.



This war was a bloody stalemate, which of course was not good because I had to sacrifice units that were supposed to be upgraded later. Eventually I retook Shimonoseki and captured Baruun-Urt, renaming it Eat Dirt You Yellow Bastards. But the Mongols captured Nagasaki and kept it for quite some time. The river tiles were quite an obstacle in the battles, especially the one north of Nagasaki.

Well, when the war ended in 590 BC I proceeded to disconnect iron and build warriors hoping to regain some military strength. I already had my eyes set on capturing the Great Library, a common recuperation strategy. My economy picked up after a successful suicide galley and an unending wheeling and dealing. The Great Library was likely to be built in Persia although it was of course our birthright.

The Mongols didn’t fall back to their own territory but started sending units *through* our territory. Quote from my notes: “The Keshiks just keep moving on. So who do they want to mess with now? Embassy with Mongols. They are at war with Ottomans.” Like the true barbarians that they were, they used their Golden Age to sponsor raiding and pillaging.

There was actually no end to the Mongols’ blood thirst. What is a peace treaty to such scumbags? This is the main event of 370 BC:



Not a pretty sight unless you’re a yellow bastard. I started to wonder if mad-bax was secretly playing the Mongols, throwing in the odd dumb move so as not to look suspicious. My military wasn’t all that impressive either:



That’s when I decided I’d had enough! In the following 3 turns I
1. Moved all southern troops except the elite spearman into Satsuma. Gifted Shimonoseki, Nagoya and Eat Dirt You Yellow Bastards to Russia. Reconnected the northern iron by hurrying a harbour and upgraded 10 warriors to Medieval Infantries on the interturn.
2. Moved all southern troops to the mountain south of Kyoto, except the catapult that was disbanded. Gifted Satsuma to Russia. I was now down to 7 towns.
3. Retook Kyoto with the southern troops. Allied Korea against the Mongols.

Before long I also retook Osaka. I captured Hovd and gave it to Russia. In 70 BC I got my first leader. It was one turn too late for Leonardo’s Workshop, but I hurried Forbidden Palace in Osaka. It wasn’t the best place for an FP perhaps, but I needed a quick boost. In 30AD the war was over, although Mongols wouldn’t give us Monotheism once the alliance with Korea was cancelled. I immediately declared on Russia and took back their presents.

In 90 AD I landed my first MIs on a Persian mountain. (We have Right of Passage of course.) I was also building horsemen as long term units. We got Monotheism from Russia for peace in 170 AD, but we didn’t have the funds to research Chivalry. We needed all the gold we could save for the upgrades later. So there will be a mixture of horsemen and MIs. We remained a Monarchy.

Persia seemed to have traded for salpeter because musketmen appeared now, long after they had learned Gunpowder. 18 MIs and a catapult are positioned outside Susa (Great Library) in 290, but the attack is delayed one turn to allow a warrior to reach Persia’s iron mountain so that he can pillage it.

We captured Susa pretty easily. Tech came in: Theology, Chivalry (big picture, 10 units upgraded), Printing Press, Education, Astronomy, Banking, Chemistry, Economics, Navigation, Physics, Metallurgy, Military Tradition. I was careless enough to choose Music Theory to research, which I didn't get from the library, so I didn't get any more big pictures and had to wait till the next turn to upgrade further. I saved 4 or 5 samurais for defence and Golden Age (kicked off in 310 AD) and upgraded the other samurais to cavalry.

During the following turns we protected the goat mountain that the attack took off from and of course Susa itself. The crisis was not over just because of the free techs steal. I was still behind in techs and slow in the research department. Persia, on the other hand, was incredibly strong. If they were to retake Susa by force or through a flip and kick us off the island they would outrun us and win the game. Riflemen was not far away for them as tech leaders.

In 370 AD we captured Persepolis south of Susa, but the Persian culture was so strong that there is no passage for us between Susa and Persepolis. In 390 AD we captured Sidon (west of Perspolis), solving that problem.

410 AD was the decisive turn for the whole game. It started badly as Susa flipped. But as I retook it I got my second leader. He hurried palace in Persepolis. The reason for this was of course the flip risk. It was nearly 20% according to CivAssist II. But I discussed with AlanH and ainwood whether this could be construed as a rank corruption exploit, since I had few towns on the Persian island. There was, however, no corruption gain when the palace move took place. As resistance waned in my new conquests, there was perhaps some gain, but meanwhile I built as many towns as would fit in at distance 3 from Persepolis. Two of those towns were actually built on Persian soil as the war was still going on. (And don’t worry, I’m not in the running for an award.)

We also captured the Persian city Gordium later, but it flipped constantly so I finally razed it and rebuilt a town of my own on the same tile. The reason for the flips was that Gordium was closer to the new Persian capital than to Persepolis.

A special nuisance occurred as I hurried the palace in Persepolis. I had joined Korea in a new war against Mongols, devoting a small part of my troops. (The turn before I had captured Karakorum with Hanging Gardens.) In 410 I captured another Mongol town. But this pushed up the palace cost to 1000 shields, so when I looked at Perspolis it said Palace 25 turns! I gave the Mongol town to Carthage and again it said Palace 1 turn. In 430 AD the Carthaginians conveniently declared war and I retook the Mongol town, which surprisingly already had Carthaginian citizens.

Another leader in 410 AD hurried Bach’s Cathedral in Karakorum. In 480 AD I managed to hurry Smith’s trading Company too. Who needs Heroic Epic…? In 530 AD I got leader #6 who finally built an army.

I had focused exclusively on Persia for their brilliant starting position, and especially their luxury monopolies. Once I had all their silks (Susa) and half their incense (Persepolis, Echizen) I thought trade would pick up big time. But luxuries were hard to come by. So as I now went into builder mode and revolted to Democracy I also squeezed in a few settlements here and there. I had a long war with China who had allied with Persia just before I made peace with them. which ended with me placing a town in their territory which stole one gems and their only saltpeter.


As peace was signed next turn, China themselves helped us to connect the gems through their territory. Soon afterwards I made use of Ottomans demise to settle near some dyes.

But all had not been on cruise control. In 530 AD I had left it in the hands of the AI to kill a 2 hitpoint Chinese cavalry who luckily survived my cleansing. If they had failed, Kyoto could have been lost. And Korea was a constant headache. They were big and my northern areas open to attacks all the time. I gave them lots of cheap luxuries and bought a few expensive alliances and Rights of Passage.

In 700 AD Susa flipped and I lost all silks. In 600 AD I had suffered another, more unlikely flip. I’ve superimposed the flip chance (in red) so that you can see what I’m talking about :



This game was getting really long measured in RL time, so I went for diplomatic. I made a run for Scientific Method, got Atomic Theory and Electronics for free and then headed for Motorized Transportation. Persia still researched slightly faster than me, despite their losses, and Russia rose as another superpower. The three of us reached the Modern Age at roughly the same time, in 1220 AD. Come to think of it, Russia was 1 or 2 turns behind, a fact which I used to buy alliance with them against Persia in 1220. I allied all the others too, of course, and 4 tanks armies had their fun with Persia for the 11 turns or so it took to learn Fission.

The votes were cast as follows:
Tokugawa votes for Tokugawa
Mao votes for Tokugawa (polite)
Ragnar Lodbrok votes for Tokugawa (gracious)
Hannibal votes for Tokugawa (gracious)
Bismarck votes for Tokugawa (gracious)
Osman votes for Tokugawa (gracious)
Catherine votes for Catherine
Wang Kon votes for Catherine (gracious)
Xerxes abstains (furious)

I thought I’d make this spoiler a bit more detailed than usual, because it was an unusual game. Congratulations to all who did better than me and thanks to Mad-bax for a brilliant map! Also thanks to the moderators for their support.

@ Megalou

That was a very interesting read. It did not look good for you in 370 BC. It was absolutely remarkable how you achieved a victory from that point onwards.

Thanks Ronald!
I was going to quit when I thought of the gifting possibility. Russia was not going to reach our continent for a long time. The biggest worry was that the Mongols would declare on them too, but they signed a ROP with them instead.

Ronald said:

@ Megalou

That was a very interesting read. It did not look good for you in 370 BC. It was absolutely remarkable how you achieved a victory from that point onwards.

Click to expand...

exactly!! i'm really amazed that Megalou could still think at that moment ! if i were playing the game, i would have been so angry by Mongol's invasion and the imperfection of the game.

As the others said that was a great game Megalou. I'm pretty sure I would have given up in 370BC. Or even if I didn't I don't think I could have turned it around and won it like you did. You should get an award for that game.

Well done Megalou. Now that I've read the full story of your struggle I'm really pleased we made the right decision on your palace jump.

In this game I use method TwoTimesGL. I build it fist and set techmoney=0 until IA.
When I see Education in Persia, then I give city with GL to ottomans. When I capture ottoman - I take GL and tehs until RailRoad.
and result
Your name: EsatP
Entry class: Open
Game status: Spaceship Victory for Japan
Game date: 1560 AD
Firaxis score: 8185
Jason score: 7787
Time played: 17:31:11

ancient ages
middle ages

PTW open, thinking of 20K

We entered the IA in 660 after being kicked out of Persia. Persia has infantry and we have cavalry and no cannons and we have to sail Persia controlled seas to invade. So I realise there's not much that can be done in the short run.
We await the alliances to expire and sign peace with Xerxes in 790, forking over 14 gpt. Plan is to return with tanks.

1100: Russia starts on SETI. This is getting very worrying. The Vikings long since have vanished, England has taken some nasty beating from the Russians in the recent past and now Bismarck has been selected for some spanking. Only the Carthagians make a fresh impression.
That's just what I need: while being totally obsessed and frustrated by the Persians the Russian bear gets out of control. In 1210 we dow Russia and ally all but Persia against Cathy. Not only do I find it unwise to ally Xerxes but also is he disgusted by every proposal I can make. Lets hope the others can control the Russians.

1300 The long awaited tanks become available. We have build some 21 artillery in the meantime. 1340 We dow Persia and ally all but Russia. We have 6 tanks in 1340, but numbers are increasing fast. After having destroyed Bactra, Tarsus and Sidon, we destroy Susa in 1410. Now having 54 tanks and 23 artillery. Moral is at an all time high, but then ...

Xerol said:

I'll probably just keep all the starting continent cities until Tanks come about(which seems to happen around 1400 or so on Diety Continents).

Click to expand...

Yes, all have tanks by now, but some have more


With the destruction of Susa there also falls to pieces a cylindric object they call ICBM. Though it looks quite harmless, it seems to be an object of great power. Let us hope it is their only one...

It isn't ..... there was 1 other
(in the interturn)



Why me, why now, why Kyoto,
why does it allways has to be the X-man, why does he hate me so much

The result is horrible:



(btw I think this is just the kind of environment the Kyoto-treaty tries to avoid)

The attack destroys the barracks, temple, marketplace, library, courthouse, university, colosseum, factory, hydroplant and stockexchange.

Because it is an inland capitol with no airfield, it cuts of all my trades utterly destroying my reputation as a viable trading partner.

My estimated 20K date is set back from 2065 to 2213 and culture is down from 43 cpt to 25 cpt. Though I can rebuild the destroyed culture-buildings in a few turns I never get their lost millenium bonusses back. My hopes for a 20K victory are allmost completely lost. Oh man, do I hate the X-man

We rebuild Kyoto and mercilessly attack the Persians until they are no more in 1510

Emotions run high: having a grudge against all the world and feeling very sorry for ourselves, we attack one civ after another.
1520 attack on China
1615 attack on Ottomans

But then we get a little hope back. The civs on the other continet have managed to control the Russians. With the disappearance of the Persians and Russia being at war all the time research has slowed down enormously. Even two and half century after the Kyoto-nuking no civ is capable of doing that again. And more inportantly there are three MT wonders still available, because the AI doesn't research in their direction.

ionimplant said:

nice job, Redbad!!! you're such a steadyfast fan of 20k!!! i wish you could somehow stop the AI from wining the game before you achieve 20k.

Click to expand...

That I can, but the problem is somewhat different I'm afraid


The wonders I'm talking about are of course: internet, cure for cancer and longevity. Some 10 cpt in all. We fanaticly research that way.
1695 internet build est. 20K date 2081
1715 apollo build est. 20K date 2074
1756 cure for cancer
1758 longevity est. 20K date 2059
cpt is 59 in 1758AD. That means I'm about (2059 - 2050) * 59 = 531 culture short. There are only two culture improvement left that I can think off:
sdi providing 1 and the FP adding 2 but costing my millenium bonus on the palace, so proving only 1 also. With 196 turns left till 2050 these culture building will provide between 300 and 400 culture-points. I'm not going to make it. If only one culture-building less had been destroyed in the blast. It would have been enough.

After not playing for a week out of pure disgust, I continue this week. I've allready spent a horrible amount of time on this one, so why not increase it and go for a cow-attempt. All other VC's have a far to late date.
I destroy the english, cathagians and germans. We let the Russians live in a size 1 empire, hoping to trade for some research. Chances of that are small though because of our destroyed trade rep.

Now it's thursday evening and I'm going on a weeks holiday on the dutch isles. The date is 1826 and there's no time left to finish a cow-attempt. I just enter the Russian village, which still hasnt any defender due to building a rifleman for over 20 turns. Maybe a conquest-shield