"Imago Mundi" (The Image of The World) [Discussion Thread]

This is where to place any comments, discussion, suggestions, corrections etc relating to the Imago Mundi Reference Thread.

This is also the thread where I shall post updates regarding ammendments, fixes and articles being added.

LATEST ARTICLE ADDED 14.30 GMT 23/01/06

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INDEX:

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~ Preface
~ Note for viewers and posters

~ Index with links, to be continually edited.

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~ Introduction - Abstraction:

~ ‘What is abstraction and what has it done for us?’ > 'The end of abstraction in mapmaking?'

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CHAPTER 1: From the First Maps to 300A.D.
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~ The First Maps

~ The Near East: Catal Hyük Wall Painting & The Caucasus Map Vase
~ The Dreamtime.
~ The Earliest Maritime Mapping (Polynesia)
~ A Note To Those Seeking the Earliest Maps

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~ The Birth of the Image of World, as We Know It Today:

~ The World According to The Phoenicians, told by Homer
~ 'ONE World Map'
~ Eratosthenes & Strabo
~ 'The Bad News'
~ 'The Classical Greek contribution to Cartography':
1) Oikoumene
2) The Shape of the World
3) Spherical Geometry & Astronomy
4) Empiricism
~ 'Strabo Summarises'
~ The Legacy left to Ptolemy
~ 'Roman vs. Greek Learning'.

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~ Ptolemy: Part 1


~ Brief Biography
~ Roman vs. Greek learning
~ The Ptolemaic Paradox

~ Ptolemy: Part 2

~ His Relevant Works:

1) 'The Almagest or Al-Majesti' (The Master) – Astronomy
2) 'Geography' - Geography & Cartography
3) 'Tetrabiblos' - Astronomy
4) 'Handy Tables' - Astronomy

~ His Major Contributions:

1) The Size and Location of the Known World: Stadia
2) Locating of Specific Places: Encyclopaedic School
3) The Mathematical Contruction of the World: The introduction of Longitudes & Latitudes
4) The Geocentric Universe

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CHAPTER 2: Inner and Outer Worlds ~ Religious Mapping.
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"Manuslyaloka" (The World of Man) ~ Jain Chart of The World, c15th.

~ Inner and Outer Worlds: Buddhist Mapping.

~ 'Gotenjiku-Zu and the Role of Buddhist Mapping In Edo Japan'

3 mapping styles in Edo Japan
Gotenjiku-Zu
The Pilgrimage of Hsuang-Tsang
Map of Nansenbushu (Jambu-dviipa)
Lake Manasarowar, Mount Kailash and The River Ganges

Aid to contemplation?

~ 'Jain Chart of the World and the Eight Fold Path' (c15th)

A crash course in Buddhism
Shumisen-gizu (A Representation of Mount Sumeru / Kailash)
Graphical Allusion
Hindu Yantras

~ Summary

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INNER AND OUTER WORLDS: Christian Religious Mapping in The Mappae Mundi

Article added 14:00 GMT on 23/01/06
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This article is in three separate posts:

Intro
Main Section
Conclusion & Bibliography


In this article:

~ The Orientation of the Medieval Mind

~ The Four Major Medieval Mapping Traditions:

1) tripartite ("T-O")
2) quadripartite (with the addition of the antipodes)
3) zonal ('Macrobian')
4) 'transitional' (complex, eg Hereford)

~ Christianity, Geography and Science

~ Role of The Marvellous: Escapism, Morals and Distant Places

~ Simultaneous representation of past, present and future.

~ Conclusion & Bibliography



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~ The Educational Systems under which maps were/are produced: Cordovan Spain, Roger II, Chinese Dynasties commission, Indian Cosmology.


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~ Secular & Analytical: Ptolemy, Macrobius, Al Idrissi.

~ Exploration & Explanation of Cartographers’ Techniques: Projection, calculations for the circumference of the earth, Longitudes and Latitudes, Dealing with the unknown, Dealing with the contradictions in religious knowledge.

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~ Significant Cartographers & their maps: The list is endless!

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More sections to come.

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IF YOU SEE ANY AREAS WHICH REQUIRE EXPANSION OR COMMENTARY, PLEASE POST AWAY RIGHT HERE!!!

Thanks.

The first section on "Abstraction" has now been posted and linked.

You realise you're presenting your bid to the ultimate opus magna of the CFC history articles? Good luck in your enterprise, I certainly will follow it with deep interest.

Commenting on the first item: while it is obvious that isobaric or political charts are as much a product of abstraction as ancient maps, you mention the special case of satellite imaging and refer to it as a new kind of subjective experience in map making (and map stearing ), but how would you define that novelty in regards to previous experiences? Is it not pretty much the same thing? Satellite images are manipulated in order to produce flat 2 dimensional maps for the most part, with the very same projection problems as before, the colours are also worked for better contrast, objects are removed because they don't fit our notion of what a clear map is (eg, clouds), and even if we look at them as the most advanced way of representing our world, and significantly improved over thet atempts of our ancestors, let's not forget that those old maps occupied the exact same spot in their minds, so the difference is only one of technique, not in terms of reality perception.
Just a couple of cents.

Hi MC, thanks for kicking things off. I think you are absolutely right. I have used the wrong words in the last paragraph of that Abstraction intro. It isn't a new chapter at all. I think I will edit in your comments as they are bang on the money. It's the same dynamic going on and they are posed with the same problems as the earliest cartographers. I guess I just tried to jazz it up a bit at the end. But hey! I'm human ok!?

EDITED your comments into the article.

I am intending to deal with the actual theories and analytical side of representing the world in much more detail when I come to that article (I've already mentioned that Ptolemy contributed here). This is however one area which I am quite deficient in. I'd appreciate it if those who know more about the technicalities of map making would thrown in some knowledge. I've got the detail but don't know what all of it means.

I have deliberately provided links and books references out in the open first, simply so that others can have a look around and contribute to the thread also.

As for the Magnum Opus of CFC, that hadn't occured to me yet, but why not aim for it, raise the bar? Basically, I've been going through these maps for so long but never put all the related topics together. So I'm trying to do that before your eyes, with your help and with some prior preparation I have done of course. It should prove to be a worthwile resource for us all and a fascinating picture hop for those who don't want to read it all.

The first article was just an intro btw. I will be providing many more specific examples and commentary on those maps with further articles. Still open to any ammendments people want to make to the Abstraction Intro.

New article added.

~ The First Maps: The Near East and the Dreamtime.

Very nice. Keep up the good work.

I'll read it when I have the time later...

Keep up the good work? OK. Another article has been posted. They are getting much longer and juicier now that the serious cartography is beginning.


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The Birth of the Image of World, as We Know It Today:

Eratosthenes & Strabo (map)

'ONE World Map'
'The Bad News'
'The Classical Greek contribution to Cartography':
1) Oikoumene
2) The Shape of the World
3) Spherical Geometry & Astronomy
4) Empiricism

'Strabo Summarises'
The Legacy left to Ptolemy (Map)
'Roman vs. Greek Learning'.
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Enjoy

I have edited in two new maps into the last article.

- Homer's World Map based on Phoenician geography, the roots of Greek cartography.
- A Babylonian clay tablet map.

About that map you posted that is regarded as the oldest in the world: does any of your sources make an atempt to identify the region it might represent?

No they do not. I used 'The Image of The World' as the main source for that but have cross checked it with a few other sources. All say much the same thing, and that isn't very much!

The consensus is that it is from the Caucasus region, found on a silver vase, the design of which is quite unusual compared with other decorations. There were similar other artefacts found in this region during this time, so the analysts have concluded that it is a map, not some arbitrary decoration.

As for it representing a particular area, with city states, that is entirely my own supposition, there is no source I found which suggests that at all. In fact no source I ofund attempted an explanation or description. It is me putting together the types of thinking analysts of cartography use to come up with an interpretation. So I may well be wrong about it representing a region, in which case no source will tell you what area it is mapping. Did I make it clear that I was goign on an illustrative exercise when outlining what the map might be of?

You might also be interested in a contender for an even earlier map:

"In around 6200 BC in Catal Hyük in Anatolia a wall painting was made depicting the positions of the streets and houses of the town together with surrounding features such as the volcano close to the town. The wall painting was discovered in 1963 near the modern Ankara in Turkey. Whether it is a map or a stylised painting is a matter of debate."

From: http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/history/HistTopics/Cartography.html

You can see what it looked like here:
http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/Ancient Web Pages/100B.html

I had planned to finish off an article on early Christian maps today (skipping Ptolemy for later) but I would like to deal with The First Maps article first, seeing as it has been brought up.

Further to the Catal Hyük map / wall painting, there are other very early examples and references to early maps. I was thinking of including this one:

Polynesian mapping of the sea.

"When travelling greater distances, the early navigators steered by the stars. They directed their canoes towards a particular star in the constellation Leo and when that star moved too high and too far to the left, they followed the next star that rose from the same point on the horizon. Then the next and after that the next and so on until dawn broke.

The star-compass technique is still practised over much of the Pacific. What is more impressive however is the island navigator's uncanny skill to steer by wave motion - swells reflected from islands beyond the horizons. The skilled navigator comes to recognise the profile and characteristic of particular ocean swells as he would the faces of his friends, but he judges their direction more by feel than by sight.

The complex patterns produced by swell reflected and refracted among the islands are recognised by navigators throughout Oceania. The Marshall Islanders illustrate the process using stick charts as seen below."

Source: http://www.janeresture.com/navigators/index.htm

Click to expand...

We can date there techniques back to before the Greek mapping world, thanks to their pottery: "The obscure people who made Lapita pottery reached Tonga before 1000 B.C" (same source)

Rambuchan said:

No they do not. I used 'The Image of The World' as the main source for that but have cross checked it with a few other sources. All say much the same thing, and that isn't very much!

The consensus is that it is from the Caucasus region, found on a silver vase, the design of which is quite unusual compared with other decorations. There were similar other artefacts found in this region during this time, so the analysts have concluded that it is a map, not some arbitrary decoration.

As for it representing a particular area, with city states, that is entirely my own supposition, there is no source I found which suggests that at all. In fact no source I ofund attempted an explanation or description. It is me putting together the types of thinking analysts of cartography use to come up with an interpretation. So I may well be wrong about it representing a region, in which case no source will tell you what area it is mapping. Did I make it clear that I was goign on an illustrative exercise when outlining what the map might be of?

Click to expand...

Well, the Caucasus is a bit up north, but perhapa it could depict a region further south, which is particularly fertile, like Mesopotamia. The Tigris and Euphrates have their sources not very far from the southern edge of the Caucasus region.

This would connect with ideas I will elaborate on later ('Sexing up lands for conquest'), so your suggestion could be quite valid here. I guess I was thinking of the fertile Mesopotamian region when I came up with the interpretation, so this could all tie together quite nicely. Wanna add some commentary for the article?

Also - Do you think I should include the other examples directly above into 'The First Maps' article? (Polynesians, Anatolia map)

Rambuchan said:

1) This would connect with ideas I will elaborate on later ('Sexing up lands for conquest'), so your suggestion could be quite valid here. I guess I was thinking of the fertile Mesopotamian region when I came up with the interpretation, so this could all tie together quite nicely. Wanna add some commentary for the article?

2) Also - Do you think I should include the other examples directly above into 'The First Maps' article? (Polynesians, Anatolia map)

Click to expand...

1) What do you mean? For that post or for chapters later on, in case I have something useful?

2) Yes. Although they're not what pops firstly in our modern western minds in we think of map concepts, they fit perfectly what you (and I ) explained about the abstractive process.

1) I mean:

You say that 'the first ever map' which I posted was perhaps of the more southern Mesopotamian region, made by people living in the less fertile Caucasus. Hence, this map may well have been made to lure people to the idea of settling those more fertile southern lands.

I have a section prepared on this dynamic ie. maps being created as a political instrument to lure the populations interest in a certain direction. There are examples of such political maps:

a) Following Marco Polo's journeys to China: the map's vignettes change to show Africa to be the new location of Paradise > effect was to lure explorers round the continent of Africa to establish a sea route to the wealth of Asia, this notion being based on the stories of Arab traders in the Indian Ocean and a rediscovery of Greek works, which in turn exposed Phoenician journeys round Africa.

Point is the focus was on Africa to confirm this sea route to Asia.

b) Which show Brazil & Peru to be emblazoned with Gold, Angels, Exotic Flora and Fauna and other lovely things. Again to lure explorers towards cracking the wealth of the New World.

c) Which show England in large, with a world map seemingly tagged on.

d) Many others.

2) I'll get onto it.

OK. Phew! I have significantly edited the second article ~'The First Maps' .

After some thorough cross referencing and the discovery of an excellent piece of analysis. I have now updated and improved the content thus:

THE FIRST MAPS:
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In this article:

~ The Near East: Catal Hyük Wall Painting & The Caucasus Map Vase
~ The Dreamtime.
~ The Earliest Maritime Mapping (Polynesia)
~ A Note To Those Seeking the Earliest Maps

I hope you all had a good weekend. I very much don't operate on CFC over the weekend these days. But it's Monday morning here and it is time to progress the project.

In the following days I will be posting up the next article. It will centre entirely around Ptolemy and his contributions to map making, taking in the following areas, plus others I will add:

[EDIT: Now posted, link below.]
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If anyone feels there are areas which should be included, do please mention them and I shall make it so!

The article on Ptolemy has now been posted.

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NEW ARTICLE ~ added 18:30 GMT 26/09

Ptolemy: Part 1


~ Brief Biography
~ Roman vs. Greek learning
~ The Ptolemaic Paradox

Ptolemy: Part 2

~ His Relevant Works:

1) 'The Almagest or Al-Majisti' (The Master) – Astronomy
2) 'Geography' - Geography & Cartography
3) 'Tetrabiblos' - Astronomy
4) 'Handy Tables' - Astronomy

~ His Three Major Contributions:

1) The Size and Location of the Known World: Stadia
2) Locating of Specific Places: Encyclopaedic School
3) The Mathematical Contruction of the World: The introduction of Longitudes & Latitudes

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Enjoy! And let me know if there are any errors in the commentary. It's getting juicier now!

That Ptolemy article, with expansions on his works, exceeded the one post limit. So I have now divided it up into two. See post above for link.

I think this article actually concludes the first chapter on this topic.
I feel I have taken the story of the map up to 300AD. Now it starts branching off.

Now the topic will expand out into all sorts of directions. I'll be working on Buddhist maps from Japan, Christian Religious Mapping, Educational Systems maps were created in, the Arab world's astonomy and cartography, Chinese developments, the Indian Sindhind (numerical system) and loads of other stuff.


Whether you guys want to comment, discuss, criticise or not, I will carry on.

NEW ARTICLE ADDED ~ 10.30am 07/10/05


Inner and Outer Worlds: Religious Mapping.

~ Buddhist Religious mapping
~ Hindu & Jain Maps from India
~ Christian Religious Mapping: Isodore, the Mappa Mundi tradition.

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This article is a work in progress. There is much else to be added. I just wanted to get these out there. I'll probably have a full commentary added early next week. Enjoy!

EDIT: I have also added a definition of a map into the article "The First Maps". About time too!

EDIT 2: I have also added the very important, but quite flawed, contribution which Ptolemy bequethed to the next 1000 years of cartography in Europe - the Geocentric (Earth centred) view of the universe. I've also put a brief comment in about the fact a Heliocentric (Sun centred) view was contemporaneous and convincingly put forward, yet Ptolemy vouched for the former theory.