9x4=36, and 12x3=36 ...WRONG !

angeleyes · Dec 2, 2005

I have to go back to school .

With 9 beakers i can get monotheisme in 4, so if i add 3 beakers i should get it in 3. WRONG ! :cry:

Can anyone explain this .... :confused:

AlanH · Dec 2, 2005

Is there a minimum time to research a tech as there is in Civ3? As it happens the minimum in a standard Civ3 game is 4 turns.

al_thor · Dec 2, 2005

Only the AI can get it in 3. Human must wait 4.

madviking · Dec 2, 2005

I got three turner once.

Bhruic · Dec 2, 2005

It's because your city isn't the only thing generating beakers. I believe it's a base +3 beakers you get regardless of your city production. So in reality, you changed from (9+3) to (12+3). 15x3 = 45 < 12x4 = 48.

Bh

vbraun · Dec 2, 2005

al_thor said:
Only the AI can get it in 3. Human must wait 4.

There is no limit to how fast you can reaserch stuff. I've done 1 turn techs before.

angeleyes · Dec 3, 2005

Forgot to mention: 1. The city (Beiing) is my only city,
2. i already did some turns researching monotheisme,

1. You can research a tech in 1 turn, i've done it, so that's not the case;
2. I do not believe it's a bug, imo there are hidden calculations made
(probably very complicated), they won't show you, and that makes me
pissed off :mad:

The game is presented as if you know everything
of what's going on and that you can calculate everything, but in fact
behind every aspect of the game (tech, battle, culture, war weariness
etc. etc.) there are hidden calculations you don't know. They should
have tried to make the game as simple and clear as possible, and they
did not. :cry:

Don't anyone think this is annoying too ?

Asperge

panzooka · Dec 3, 2005

i've also noticed this but i think its for balancing the starting game

if u start on a location producing 1 commerce, i can research bronzeworking in 26 turn, (i think) on epic speed
but if my starting location producing 2 commerce, i research bronzeworking in 18 turns.
but 2 commerce is doubling 1 commerce, and i should be able to do it in 13 turns.

angeleyes · Dec 3, 2005

panzooka said:
i've also noticed this but i think its for balancing the starting game

No doubt they have good reasons for doing so but this way you are not in
the position that you can exactly know what you are doing. It's like playing
chess and still being unsure how you may move your pieces. :mad:

Asperge

salty · Dec 3, 2005

I'm not sure what you are getting at, but you probably had some left over beakers from whatever you researched before monotheism. Put the mouse cursor over the research bar and look in the lower left corner for numerical values. If you look at the actual bar, the shaded part of the 12 beaker pic clearly doesn't make over 1/3 of the unhighlighted part, ergo you still need 4 turns or a few more beakers.

kryszcztov · Dec 3, 2005

Asperge, I totally share your feelings. I hate it when I can't know the rules. Also, I encountered something similar, see this thread (and the ones to which it leads

).

Also, you would do us a great favor if you told us how many beakers you have already put into Monotheism, and how many beakers it costs in all. Just mouse-over the name of the tech at the top of the screen, and read the ".../..." there. With that we could help you more.

angeleyes · Dec 3, 2005

Bhruic said:
It's because your city isn't the only thing generating beakers.

You are completely right, but what mysterious thing is it that gives me three
beakers, that's the question.

For example: you begin the game as Inca (free tech mysticism), found a city,
and put your first citizin on a tile with no commerce, then you make 8 (palace)
plus 1 (centre) = 9 beakers. You choose Polytheisme as your first tech, and
enter (next turn). Then you will always see (no matter wich difficulty level or
map size) that you have actualy put 12 beakers into Polytheisme.

WHY? .... (as a notorious dutch journalist would ask if he was still under
the living) ...

I think it's not a bug,

As far as i understand the Civ-designers, they want to 'encourage' you
to develop that tech. ( if you choose as Inca another tech to develop,
your bonus is 1 beaker)

My complaint is that i feel manipulated by the Civ-designers,
they are not honest to me.
Further it's a great game.

@Kryszcztov: I've read your thread and it's the same thing: you get 3 beakers
more then F2 shows you, so 4x9 should be 4x12 and 3x12 should be 3x15,
what explains the confusion (see also note from Brhuic). But my main complaint
stays: they do it with purpose (i think) and it's confusing.

Asperge

salty · Dec 3, 2005

oh I see what you are saying. Assuming there are no weird research decay round off fractinos, the first screen shows you need between 28 and 36 beakers to complete Monotheism, while the second shows you need between 37 and 48. How much do you actually need according to the advisor? And what is the breakdown you get when you mouse over the science total?

salty · Dec 3, 2005

I tried your Inca example with Polytheism, and you are right. I think they left some stub code in the research calculator function.

You'll get exactly 12 beakers per turn and like it.

angeleyes · Dec 3, 2005

salty said:
You'll get exactly 12 beakers per turn and like it.

no i don't like it, i want clear rules,

Asperge

salty · Dec 3, 2005

was joking :-)

kryszcztov · Dec 4, 2005

Also I haven't been experiencing any tech deflation in my game, so I wonder if the code is right. But anyway, the central point is : we get more beakers than first said, and this is disturbing. And if you read my threads, you'll see that it depends on the %age science and the tech's price !! :eek:

angeleyes · Dec 4, 2005

kryszcztov said:
we get more beakers than first said, and this is disturbing.

This is a fact, we agree : but what i like to know is :

is it a bug or is it a feature ?

If it's a feature than i hate this feature. It looks like the feature in Civ3
that you got extra shields when your city grew, and you could not always
predict how much, so mm-ing was frustrated.

If it's a feature than there is a bug in the head of the designers ... :mad:

Asperge

GenericKen · Dec 4, 2005

Could you post a screenie of the science screen? Just to make sure there are 36 beakers left in Mono.

Ranos · Dec 4, 2005

GenericKen said:
Could you post a screenie of the science screen? Just to make sure there are 36 beakers left in Mono.

If he is getting 9 beakers per turn and it will take 4 turns, then there are 28-36 beakers remaining. That should be a given based on the turns it will take to complete. If he ups it to 12 beakers, that shouldn't change the number of beakers remaining. Unless there are hidden variables, which there seem to be.

9x4=36, and 12x3=36 ...WRONG !

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